MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #9

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nodamselindistress said:
They were both really really drunk. If you think this is the first time I got some property to sell you in AZ.

This seemed to be a way of life in Canton.

She had multiple sugeries and colin issues. She dropped him off and waited for him and then just couldn't wait any longer, so she headed home. She called him over and over again. She passed out. 4 hrs later she wakes up in a start and he is not there. She looks at her phone and finds she sent him FU messages and tries to remember why. She panicks when he won't answer and enlists help.
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99 percent of the people in Canton are saying, I WISH. haha. Well, 80 percent.
 
pavlovsdaughter said:
Counterpoint - I’ve been in this exact situation.

I went out drinking with some friends. I had a little too much and it was snowing so I crashed at my friend’s. I had texted my mom earlier in the night but when I got to my friend’s, who has an android phone, I couldn’t charge my iPhone and it died.

My mom FREAKED when I didn’t text her back - she was out driving all night looking for me in the snow, going to hospitals, police, everything. She was convinced I was dead. I was 30 at the time :p So yeah, some people just react like this and catastrophize. I find it totally possible based on my experience alone.
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Oh my goodness! You just jogged my memory that a very similar thing happened to me! I ended up sleeping somewhere without telling my parents where and actually left my phone in my car. They called where they thought I was and couldn’t find me there. I got woken up by my friend’s mom who they eventually contacted and by the time I got to where my car was parked my parents had called the police worried sick about me and police were searching it AND they were looking in a nearby pond for me. This all happened between like midnight and 6 AM. People do worry and act quickly sometimes. (And my parents overall are not very anxious parents and I was a young adult)
 
RANCH said:
Here's your assignment. It's only 13 pages.

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Did you actually read this?

I went through it. The crashes depicted are forward-facing, so the forces in a reverse crash may be a little different, but even so it's actually pretty interesting and relevant.

A couple of things I got out of it for a 40 kph pedestrian/vehicle crash (the SUV was traveling at 24 mph or 38 kph according to the CW):
  • The pedestrian will be hit hard enough to cause an average of two broken ribs.
  • There should also be ligament ruptures to the lower extremities
Which highlights the strangeness of the lack of injury to John's midsection and legs. (Unless the ME tells us otherwise when and if they ever testify.)
 
KMouse said:
Center mass to me is the middle of the chest as depicted in shooting range targets. Like where police are trained to shoot.
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That has nothing to do with mass which is related to weight. The center of mass is the point where the mass above and below is the same. Shooting targets are at the chest level because that is visually the widest target.
Center of mass is a very specific and well defined concept. It is nowhere near the chest it is either slightly above or below the belly button depending on gender. Seems like someone testifying about bodies rotating based on impact, etc.. etc.. should understand these basic concepts. This prosecution team is a joke. Moo.
 
RANCH said:
It has nothing to do about Karen being worried or not.

I'm just not understanding why she would think he left the Fairview house. JMO.
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Because she didn’t remember taking him there. She even drove to the bar because she thought she left him there. The prosecution’s own witness showed she went to the bar looking for him first, not to the house. They were all drunk and she was sick that night - as usual since she suffers from Crohn’s disease.
 
RANCH said:
Here's your assignment. It's only 13 pages.

Click to expand...
if you did yours first you would see that he went up those stairs and entered the house... and they have experts... and she was seen alone in her vehicle for several minutes as people came and left..therefore any tip she may have given him did not lead to his death.. he was still mobile and lively..

I don't think there is any evidence at all to suggest she hit him..

she may have wanted to, I would have... but she also knew that the host was a person he held in high esteem and he welcomed an opportunity to spend time with him..

Too many shennanigans... by far.. way too many..

Who controlled the narrative and made a point of controlling the narrative?
 
RANCH said:
It has nothing to do about Karen being worried or not.

I'm just not understanding why she would think he left the Fairview house. JMO.
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This is a really good question. My theory (if she’s innocent) is that she thought he was cheating with the ex who lived nearby and that it’s why his cell phone was off, etc. Then, I think she started to spiral when she realized her initial plan wasn’t to sleep at his house and that means his niece would have been home alone and she thought it meant something bad happened to him to lead him to not return for his niece. I do think she started to call people hoping they’d say “oh he fell asleep at the Albert’s” but when Jen said he never came in she really worried about where he could have gone instead.

I actually would assume her first thought at that point wouldn’t be to find him in the yard of the Albert house and instead would be that something really strange happened?
 
nodamselindistress said:
I guess it maybe REALLY happens then? Who knew?
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If always going out and getting drunk, nooo. It is really a 'normal' family type community. People are busy/done for the dayyy after work/kids/kid events and it's expensive. The ALBERTS AND MCcabes def seem to be UBER social townie 'party types' anyway. John and Karen are out, him first, meeting up with friends he knows, Karen comes and joins him, his g.f. BUT, I see it got WAY out of hand fast with the 'after party' plan. Suburbia/snowy weekend night out decompressing at the place, close by that they usually prob. go to. For some reason, JO'K felt he wanted to 'keep going'', very unfortunately.
 
kittythehare said:
if you did yours first you would see that he went up those stairs and entered the house... and they have experts... and she was seen alone in her vehicle for several minutes as people came and left..therefore any tip she may have given him did not lead to his death.. he was still mobile and lively..

I don't think there is any evidence at all to suggest she hit him..

she may have wanted to, I would have... but she also knew that the host was a person he held in high esteem and he welcomed an opportunity to spend time with him..

Too many shennanigans... by far.. way too many..

Who controlled the narrative and made a point of controlling the narrative?
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You have a well thought out theory that sounds perfectly plausible. JMO.
 
KMouse said:
Center mass to me is the middle of the chest as depicted in shooting range targets. Like where police are trained to shoot.
Click to expand...
Good thought, and with his background that might be what he's thinking as he's surely gone through firearms training and that is what it's called when the chest is the target when shooting. My husband is a police firearms instructor, and said that as it relates to a target to shoot it should instead be called "center of torso mass". But our actual center of mass anatomically is at or around the navel. Not sure why that question of where is the center of mass was even asked, but I don't see that being relevant..yet. IMO
 
RANCH said:
I believe it's a 2021 Lexus LX570 SUV.

If I'm wrong hopefully someone will correct me.
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seems to have front collision avoidance but maybe just beeping for rear objects and not sure how a system works in blinding snow- also not sure if features could be adjusted or turned off by the driver
______________________________________________________________________________________

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The original recipe for LSS+ includes the following driving assistance and collision avoidance features:

(looked up info for 2021 models- believe that is correct because I looked it up before and this incident happened in winter 2022, so 2021 makes sense)
 
keek said:
If always going out and getting drunk, nooo. It is really a 'normal' family type community. People are busy/done for the dayyy after work/kids/kid events and it's expensive. The ALBERTS AND MCcabes def seem to be UBER social townie 'party types' anyway. John and Karen are out, him first, meeting up with friends he knows, Karen comes and joins him, his g.f. BUT, I see it got WAY out of hand fast with the 'after party' plan. Suburbia/snowy weekend night out decompressing at the place, close by that they usually prob. go to. For some reason, JO'K felt he wanted to 'keep going'', very unfortunately.
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I do agree with this assessment. She was driving and after all the drinking just wanted to go home. She must have been hungry too by the testimony she kept trying to get Chris to open the pizza shop and feed them. But no, he was dieting in a group with winner/loser. I would be a bit put out if my SO wanted to keep going at 12;30 and I wanted to go home and I was driving. Murderous? LOL!
 
ch_13 said:
Did you actually read this?

I went through it. The crashes depicted are forward-facing, so the forces in a reverse crash may be a little different, but even so it's actually pretty interesting and relevant.

A couple of things I got out of it for a 40 kph pedestrian/vehicle crash (the SUV was traveling at 24 mph or 38 kph according to the CW):
  • The pedestrian will be hit hard enough to cause an average of two broken ribs.
  • There should also be ligament ruptures to the lower extremities
Which highlights the strangeness of the lack of injury to John's midsection and legs. (Unless the ME tells us otherwise when and if they ever testify.)
Click to expand...
Yep. I think the prosecution is going to have a hard time convincing the jury that O'Keefe was run over. JMO.
 
RANCH said:
You have a well thought out theory that sounds perfectly plausible. JMO.
Click to expand...
O’Keefe’s arrival at the Albert Residence at 12:20 a.m., between 12:21 a.m.and 12:24 a.m., Apple Health recorded O’Keefe taking 80 steps (i.e., travelingapproximately 200 feet or 60 meters) and climbing the equivalent of threefloors with his location data pinging at or near the Albert residence. (Affidavit of Richard Green at ¶¶18-19, Exhibit USF-09.) The onlyreasonable interpretation of O’Keefe’s Apple Health Data, which shows anelevation gain of three floors at or near the Albert Residence, is that hemade it inside the Albert’s three-floor residence. (See Affidavit of Alan J.Jackson at ¶12, 34 Fairview Zillow Listing.) Thus, location data fromO’Keefe’s cell phone directly contradicts Brian Albert’s assertion to policethat O’Keefe never entered his home or arrived at the party on January 29,

As explained in the attached Affidavit of Richard Green, the Cellebrite analysis ofJennifer McCabe’s cell phone recovered various contacts and communications, which weredeleted by Ms. McCabe on January 29, 2022. (Ibid.) For example, on January 29, 2022, at 12:53p.m., just hours after O’Keefe was found dead in Brian Albert’s front lawn, Jennifer McCabedeleted a screenshot of Brian Albert’s contact information, which was saved in her phone as“uncle brian a.” (Affidavit of Richard Green at ¶14, Exhibit USF-07.) Jennifer McCabe alsodeleted the phone call she made to Brian Albert at that same number on January 29, 2022, at 6:23a.m. (See Affidavit of Richard Green at ¶12, Exhibit USF-04.)20. Ms. McCabe’s attempts to sanitize her phone of any contacts with Brian Albert on themorning in question are not the only instances of witnesses associated with this caseattemptingto prevent Brian Albert’s number from being turned over to the defense and/or from appearing inofficial law enforcement records. For example, on October 25, 2022, the Commonwealthproduced to the defense a copy of the initial Canton Police Department Incident Report with apurported creation date of January 29, 2022, at 0824 hours. (Affidavit of Alan J. Jackson at ¶17,Exhibit P.) Apparently unbeknownst to the individual that altered that report, a hard copy of thatvery same report dated “January 29, 2022, at 0824 hours” had already been provided to counselfor Ms. Read at her Arraignment seven months prior on February 2, 2022. (S..

I cannot claim my thoughts are in any way original...Thanks though..

There's more.. much more..
 
nodamselindistress said:
They were both really really drunk. If you think this is the first time I got some property to sell you in AZ.

This seemed to be a way of life in Canton.

She had multiple sugeries and colin issues. She dropped him off and waited for him and then just couldn't wait any longer, so she headed home. She called him over and over again. She passed out. 4 hrs later she wakes up in a start and he is not there. She looks at her phone and finds she sent him FU messages and tries to remember why. She panicks when he won't answer and enlists help.
Click to expand...

BBM I too have thought along these lines. She was drunk, no doubt. She called and texted many times. She passed out and then panicked when he wasn’t home. Possibly wondering if she pushed him too far with her messages and didn’t really want him to leave her. Wondering why he wouldn’t answer her - especially since he had never left the kids home alone since he adopted them. She obviously was in a state of panic, but that is not an indication of guilt to me.
 
k-mac said:
Wouldnt you go directly to the last place YOU TOOK THEM to?

You gotta buy the soggy bread that she couldnt remember how to get there.

Its a stretch of generosity to believe it. IMO.
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Why is that a stretch? She reportedly couldn’t find the place the night before even with JM allegedly on the phone giving them directions. She had never been there before. Can totally believe she wouldn’t remember exactly where it was the next morning especially if she was hungover/still drunk and in a tizzy.
 
kittythehare said:
and he claimed no snow was dislodged even though the entire wheel moved.
Which snow was he looking at exactly?
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So they need snow to fall off a car to prove that the wheel moved but they don’t need JO to have signs of abdominal or chest trauma or clavicle, tibial, femoral pelvic bone fractures to prove he got hit by a car?

They also don’t need to prove that JO’s arm striking KR’s polycarbonate car lights, as Trooper Paul implied, would be strong enough to break them? Bc I was under the impression before that the material was pretty durable.

They also don’t have to prove the physics for how or why after getting struck by KR’s car JO ‘s body would perform the same movements of a breakdancer as he falls and hits his head severely on the curve before twisting in the air like Simone Biles to land in the position he found in hours later, as Trooper Paul alleged?

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