MA - Remains of 3 infants found, Erika Murray charged, Blackstone, Sept 2014

[SaucyGal]

Here is an article that is a couple of days old. It seems to be a more cohesive, encompassing article instead of bits and pieces. I hadn't seen this statement made by EM's attorney before...I know he said the stuff about her being mentally ill. It is worth the read though.

"I feel confident that the medical examination will not reveal any evidence that she did something ... to kill any child," he said. "They're not going to find broken bones; they're not going to find any evidence of harm being inflicted on these children."

I don't know why, but the way that statement is worded (granted it's an atty) makes me uneasy. There are certain things that happen during decomp that make it difficult and in some cases impossible to determine cause of death if there is no soft tissue, especially with neonatal remains. While not an infant, Caylee Anthony is an example of the difficulty. Of course, I'm sure how the remains were found will be another very important piece of the puzzle. Due to the tape on Caylee's mouth it at least lead to a manner of death.

EM atty:
"Erika ... was consumed by the need to keep these children a secret in a way that was completely irrational and clearly a product of mental illness," he said. "In order to do that, she became a prisoner to the house and to her illness."

This guy is a real piece of work...I know, I know. He's a defense attorney and that's what they do...*sigh*

I think you can only click on it once before they want you to pay:

http://www.telegram.com/article/20140917/NEWS/309179856/1116

 

[tlcya]

TO EM's ATTY: I too am confident the ME exam will not reveal COD or murder. Doesn't mean murder did not happen either by smothering or by failure to provide nutrition. After all this time, the remains will not yield info on those types of death.

But that does not mean your client did not murder and you well know it sir.

 

[SaucyGal]

TO EM's ATTY: I too am confident the ME exam will not reveal COD or murder. Doesn't mean murder did not happen either by smothering or by failure to provide nutrition. After all this time, the remains will not yield info on those types of death.

But that does not mean your client did not murder and you well know it sir.

(BBM) From what I've been able to gather on various forensic anthropology sites/books/papers, it is difficult to pinpoint age with fetal/infant skeletal remains. Are they able to determine malnutrition by various minerals or other things found/not found in the bones themselves? I've never really thought of that before. I just assumed the ME or whatever expert could tell based on something other than measurement of bone. If they can't determine age, cause, or manner of death - would they just charge her with concealment? I agree with you though, those were the 2 scenarios I thought of if she is charged with some type of infanticide.

 

[passionflower]

Do we know if house was ever clean? When they moved in? I wonder of babies were born there or did she bring them from another home when they moved. So many questions.

 

[passionflower]

Also what was the past homes like before they moved to this house?

 

[wenwe4]

Passionflower, from what I have gathered from all reports to date - R. Rivera's (Dad) sister K. Rivera owns the house and has since 2001, when it appears to be gifted to her from M. Rivera. K. Rivera moved out in 2006 or 2007 (depending on the report) but Dad and EM remained with the 2 oldest kids. It has been speculated that his sister and her family moved out because they have a large family. There is a link to a report about how she left her apartment with trash and a 2 month overdue rent bill sometime later.

Dad and EM moved with either her parents or his parents house (both have been reported) while she was in highschool (or shortly thereafter) because she was 18 and pregnant when she graduated but he was about 23 or 24 at the time. It sounds as if they lived with family members most of the time until 2007 but early reports on this case mentioned the family had also lived up the street prior to moving into this home.

 

[passionflower]

After EM response to neighbor about knowing she left the babies. IMOO I don't think she I'd afraid of anyone.

 

[lawstudent]

I agree the media coverage has been ridiculous. The Globe posts that story full of the anonymous neighbor's quotes as fact, and then does a better job weighing the opinions of the co-workers who spoke to them, but gave all this explanation and a direct quote from an expert to indicate that all deaths don't involve bones, which is common sense. It's all sensationalized and the facts and rumors are all melded together, as usual. I too doubt cause of death will be determinable, but I doubt this woman is going to continue on freely with all that has gone on. I don't think murder charges are the most important thing here - getting her help and the kids guidance is far more important, because unfortunately it is too late for those babies.

Although you would hope this wasn't common, I have seen crime shows about other women who have kept bodies of babies they most likely killed, and of adults. Not all become totally skeletonized, even after a decade, when kept stored away... But the Globe describes skeletal remains and then goes on about whether there was decomposition - it's one or the other. So sad.

 

[Writerofwrongs]

I didn't think there was much that could shock me now but this case has proven me wrong!! I cannot believe anyone could allow 4 children to live in such squalid conditions. And how the heck did the father not hear crying?

I am inclined to think the children weren't told not to tell people about the home environment... I doubt the son would have gone to a neighbour forhelp with the baby if that was the case!! It is almost like the parents thought the living conditions were not that bad....serious denial!! I hope and pray all 4 children are able to experience the love and security they deserve.

 

[buffetoflies]

"I feel confident that the medical examination will not reveal any evidence that she did something ... to kill any child," he said. "They're not going to find broken bones; they're not going to find any evidence of harm being inflicted on these children."

Not physical harm no. But neglect is much worse (especially in the first 3ish years)

I tried to write a post earlier but I can't put what I feel into words.

In regards to EM.. I got the feeling she was a true loner from her fb page. True loners prefer to be alone; tend to have 1 or 2 close friends, Will be very 'drained' of energy after short periods of time around others. etc. I'd imagine it's very frustrating having kids if someone's that type of person. Kids are very needy. I have a 4 year old visiting for two weeks... I have to lock myself away so I don't scream at her.

I'm not making excuses for her. She had other options. Safe haven laws. Birth control. She chose not to take advantage of those things.

A thought as to how RR supposedly didn't hear crying: Maybe he liked to have background music on all the time. Again, not making excuses, just offering a possible solution to the question.

 

[wenwe4]

Here is a link to a timeline in this case that appears to be pretty accurate:

http://jimfishertruecrime.blogspot.com/2014/09/erika-murrays-squalid-house-of-horrors.html

(Mods - if this is not allowed please delete and forgive)

 

[lawstudent]

I find it nearly impossible to believe that the dad didn't know, but it is interesting that he hasn't been arrested. The police may just really want his cooperation at this point, but the older kids are with his parents, right? There's almost certainly more to it. I can certainly understand that some people don't really look into things and can be oblivious, far more than most people here would acknowledge. I could believe his parents didn't know most of what was going on, even if there were signs something was off. But he was right there, close enough to hear everything at one point or another. I wonder if the police are just holding off, or if they actually believe he didn't know. What he's said so far could easily establish an arrest for an abuse or neglect charge - just his presence in that home is enough if the police really wanted him in custody, or if they thought he would interfere with the kids now.

ETA: Actually, thinking of it again, I suppose if she claimed she babysat regularly and the older kids also went with that story, that could be a semi-plausible explanation. Obviously he still would have had to ignore awful hygiene conditions, but unfortunately a lot of people ignore that sort of thing.

 

[wenwe4]

I wonder if RR's parents live in Blackstone or if they live in RI which is like 2 miles away? Speaking of proximity - have you all looked at a map of how close this home is to the police station? It says it a 43 second walk! It looks to be nearly right next door. That house had to have been locked up tighter than a drum for those offensive smells not to "off-gas" during the heat of the summer.

I am interested in what you guys think of:

1) How long will it take for the ME to announce the results of the deceased infants? (will they wait until toxicology results are in?)
2) Since EM is being housed in a Prison Unit for suicidal/homicidal females - do you think this will influence the trial in any way?
3) How much RR will admit he knew of what was actually happening upstairs?
4) If you think RR will be charged with further crimes (other than the pot)?
5) Do you think the lack of prenatal/medical care for birthing those babies will play a role in her being culpable/charged in the infants deaths?

I was reading the history of the "concealing child death out of wedlock" in that State. It stems from a law back in the 1600's where servants who were raped were considered to have committed a crime of "having a child out of wedlock" and if they killed the babies so they wouldn't be charged with having sex out of wedlock, they were further punished by concealing the evidence. At that time, the punishment was death. The law later (in the 1970's) was amended to include Men who concealed the death of these babies too.

 

[wenwe4]

After 6 days of cleanup and over $25K costs to the city Town Administrator Daniel "Keyes, who performed the final walkthrough of the building with Walsh and Fire Chief Michael Sweeney, said the house has left him "sick to my stomach."

"You don’t want to go in there," he said. "The smell is terrible. I don’t know how they lived in there. I just feel so bad for the children that are still with us. It’s going to live with them in infamy."

http://www.milforddailynews.com/article/20140917/NEWS/140917007/12411/NEWS

They are still trying to decide whether to demolish the residence.

 

[sapofamily]

I'm beginning to think my preoccupation with this story is a bit unhealthy. I just want answers & we haven't gotten any new information in a few days.

So, in going back through news videos, I watched this one about "Who is Erika Murray?" It leaves me wondering exactly how she functioned well enough to arrange a craft booth at a store "Ginny's Place" in Whitinsville, MA? I apologize if this has already been discussed, but since she didn't drive (legally, at least) -- how did she get there? It is 10 miles away from Blackstone. Since she couldn't afford the extra children, where did she come up with cash to buy supplies or inventory? The grand opening was August 2, 2014 -- 26 days before her children were removed from her custody!

I know this is a minor detail in this horror story, but it could be an example of how she disassociated from her REAL life...mother of 4 children living in a filthy home, to sell crafts she made in a cute store of handcrafted goods.

This is the video in reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZUUKKwv_7U

 

[ashleyd8402]

I'm beginning to think my preoccupation with this story is a bit unhealthy. I just want answers & we haven't gotten any new information in a few days.

So, in going back through news videos, I watched this one about "Who is Erika Murray?" It leaves me wondering exactly how she functioned well enough to arrange a craft booth at a store "Ginny's Place" in Whitinsville, MA? I apologize if this has already been discussed, but since she didn't drive (legally, at least) -- how did she get there? It is 10 miles away from Blackstone. Since she couldn't afford the extra children, where did she come up with cash to buy supplies or inventory? The grand opening was August 2, 2014 -- 26 days before her children were removed from her custody!

I know this is a minor detail in this horror story, but it could be an example of how she disassociated from her REAL life...mother of 4 children living in a filthy home, to sell crafts she made in a cute store of handcrafted goods.

This is the video in reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZUUKKwv_7U

My preoccupation with this story isn't healthy either. Welcome to the club.

I haven't watched the video yet. Maybe some of what I'm about to say is mentioned on it...

I read or heard somewhere that she was doing her craft business with her mother. EM had a Facebook page for her craft business. I found it because it was liked by one of her children on FB. There were lots of pictures of her crafts. They were exactly like anything you might find in any rustic craft store. My MIL collects that stuff. I've shopped in those kinds of stores lots of times. I would have bought the kind of stuff that she made. She really did have a knack for crafts. Her stuff sold out in just a few weeks.

She was very into crafts. She was the admin for local FB group for crafters. She had been for a couple of years. (Again, I found all of this through FB right after the story broke.)

 

[ashleyd8402]

It was still in my history. Here's the link for her craft page:

https://www.facebook.com/ErikasCountryCupboardandPrimitives

 

[ashleyd8402]

And this is the group she was admin of:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1403551826546298/

 

[Frigga]

After 6 days of cleanup and over $25K costs to the city Town Administrator Daniel "Keyes, who performed the final walkthrough of the building with Walsh and Fire Chief Michael Sweeney, said the house has left him "sick to my stomach."

"You don’t want to go in there," he said. "The smell is terrible. I don’t know how they lived in there. I just feel so bad for the children that are still with us. It’s going to live with them in infamy."

http://www.milforddailynews.com/article/20140917/NEWS/140917007/12411/NEWS

They are still trying to decide whether to demolish the residence.

Really? Still trying to decide? I knew the solution the moment I read the story and knew the conditions of the babies (who were living) and THE PETS (who were still living). Demolish the house... what are they waiting for? It seems that would have been a no brainer, at this point!

 

[LLC]

I think it's from a pop song? I don't know. I don't listen to top 40.

Unbelievable...the only thing in her head after having the kids taken, the deceased babies & knowing the condition of her house is song lyrics.

Darn it! I can't access anymore Boston Globe stories online unless I pay to subscribe...I'm such a cheapskate. There have been so many articles and apparently you can only view 10 a month. I suppose I will subscribe as they seem to be the most up-to-date and reliable source. Hopefully they will report the children's progress, which is what I want to hear more than anything.

Thanks for the info on the house! I tried looking it up the other day and was unsuccessful.

Clear your history & cache...back in business.

It was still in my history. Here's the link for her craft page:

https://www.facebook.com/ErikasCountryCupboardandPrimitives

My God, I hope everyone that bought anything has tossed it in the trash. I would love to read that craft group she was an admin for...