I agree! That's why even though I don't think they're connected, I'm still throwing out any ideas that could support a connection. Want to keep our minds open at this point.
MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #1
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I agree! That's why even though I don't think they're connected, I'm still throwing out any ideas that could support a connection. Want to keep our minds open at this point.
ThinkHard
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Where on FB I can't find anything like this.
Hi, long time lurker, but was tempted to make an account to chime in.
See, I just don't see that being so far for women their age in NYC. Just the fact that VM was in Rockaway makes it very possible that their paths could have crossed without realizing it and it's possible both could have crossed paths with the perp, either at a beach, bar, or maybe an online dating app. Online dating app most likely scenario in my mind if the perp is the same in both attacks (and if the attacks were targeted, obviously). But also, they could have each crossed paths with individual killers via online dating apps, as well.
Support for their use of online dating apps:
-Both single
-Both attractive women (no use using an app if you wouldn't be getting matches)
-Almost every woman I know has Tinder, more professional women I know also have Bumble (both of these women seem professional to me, IMO)
Tinder:
-The ability to match a potential partner up to 100 miles away, unlimited amount with Tinder premium (gives radius of a mile amount, but not in which direction, although you could travel certain ways to see if you're getting closer or farther - too much work, though)
-Tinder does not erase matches if you travel
-Encourages to link Instagram profile to Tinder profile (easy stalking)
-Unlimited "yes"/ right swipes unless you are swiping yes on everyone, but then it still only restricts you for a day
-Low commitment conversations, so people are forgettable and get drowned out
-Once you match, it will show how many miles away you are from each other and does not disappear unless you "unmatch"
-Men seem to check women's profiles more often than women check men's. What I mean by this is that men are more likely to go back to a woman's profile days, weeks, months later, randomly. Sometimes, they send a message out of the blue. Or several messages days, weeks, months apart even if the woman hasn't responded. I imagine a lot of them will go back to profiles and lurk and not send a message, as well.
-Most times, no trace of a connection between the two of you on other social media sites / people in your real life circles can be completely unaware of their existence. I can see this being easily overlooked
Bumble:
-The ability to match a potential partner up to 100 miles away
-Does not erase matches when you travel if the woman has initiated conversation with the man within 24 hours of matching
-Will show your exact location (i.e. "Manhattan, New York" or "Queens, New York")
-Does not encourage sharing Instagram, but a lot of women just write their username in bio
-Higher commitment conversations, but still forgettable
-Most times, no trace of a connection between the two of you on other social media sites / people in your real life circles can be completely unaware of their existence
Not that I necessarily back this theory 100%, but I think it is possible that these two women had one, two, or three degrees of separation.
See, I just don't see that being so far for women their age in NYC. Just the fact that VM was in Rockaway makes it very possible that their paths could have crossed without realizing it and it's possible both could have crossed paths with the perp, either at a beach, bar, or maybe an online dating app. Online dating app most likely scenario in my mind if the perp is the same in both attacks (and if the attacks were targeted, obviously). But also, they could have each crossed paths with individual killers via online dating apps, as well.
Support for their use of online dating apps:
-Both single
-Both attractive women (no use using an app if you wouldn't be getting matches)
-Almost every woman I know has Tinder, more professional women I know also have Bumble (both of these women seem professional to me, IMO)
Tinder:
-The ability to match a potential partner up to 100 miles away, unlimited amount with Tinder premium (gives radius of a mile amount, but not in which direction, although you could travel certain ways to see if you're getting closer or farther - too much work, though)
-Tinder does not erase matches if you travel
-Encourages to link Instagram profile to Tinder profile (easy stalking)
-Unlimited "yes"/ right swipes unless you are swiping yes on everyone, but then it still only restricts you for a day
-Low commitment conversations, so people are forgettable and get drowned out
-Once you match, it will show how many miles away you are from each other and does not disappear unless you "unmatch"
-Men seem to check women's profiles more often than women check men's. What I mean by this is that men are more likely to go back to a woman's profile days, weeks, months later, randomly. Sometimes, they send a message out of the blue. Or several messages days, weeks, months apart even if the woman hasn't responded. I imagine a lot of them will go back to profiles and lurk and not send a message, as well.
-Most times, no trace of a connection between the two of you on other social media sites / people in your real life circles can be completely unaware of their existence. I can see this being easily overlooked
Bumble:
-The ability to match a potential partner up to 100 miles away
-Does not erase matches when you travel if the woman has initiated conversation with the man within 24 hours of matching
-Will show your exact location (i.e. "Manhattan, New York" or "Queens, New York")
-Does not encourage sharing Instagram, but a lot of women just write their username in bio
-Higher commitment conversations, but still forgettable
-Most times, no trace of a connection between the two of you on other social media sites / people in your real life circles can be completely unaware of their existence
Not that I necessarily back this theory 100%, but I think it is possible that these two women had one, two, or three degrees of separation.
The feature is called Nearby Friends
x_files
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All my friends use it and probably should NOT! It's just not safe. Unless you absolutely trust everyone on their FB friend list and I know for a fact no one can know and trust 5k people on their list.
Madeleine74
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Lots of assumptions abound and it's a good bet most, if not all, assumptions are incorrect.
The truth is no one outside of the detectives working the cases know exactly what was on each woman's phone, her social media, her settings, who she was in touch with. I can't recall any case in which a woman who was jogging was followed and murdered based on her social media. I think that's more fantasy. Most of the time these monsters are not tech savvy. In crimes of opportunity, which police believe these 2 different and unconnected crimes are, it's about the victim being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Occam's Razor proves itself time and time again.
IMO and as learned many times, anything is not possible; in reality there's one truth for each victim. Each case is unique; each victim is unique. The FBI profilers certainly know more; the detectives involved in the case know everything that's been discovered/found to this point since they are the ones working the case.
The truth is no one outside of the detectives working the cases know exactly what was on each woman's phone, her social media, her settings, who she was in touch with. I can't recall any case in which a woman who was jogging was followed and murdered based on her social media. I think that's more fantasy. Most of the time these monsters are not tech savvy. In crimes of opportunity, which police believe these 2 different and unconnected crimes are, it's about the victim being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Occam's Razor proves itself time and time again.
IMO and as learned many times, anything is not possible; in reality there's one truth for each victim. Each case is unique; each victim is unique. The FBI profilers certainly know more; the detectives involved in the case know everything that's been discovered/found to this point since they are the ones working the case.
MarcBerlin
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I agree with you, but also i think that, as a side effect of the increasing use of social meda in our daily life and the technical progress, it will be just a matter of time till we will have the first serial killer who selects his victims from social media accounts, maybe obsessed by their pics they publish or their personality.
WideOpen
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I am open to the murders being serial mainly because LE have not come out to say either case is unrelated!
That is something in other cases they will announce.
I'm watching and waiting for LE to confirm anything and they have not.
They may have DNA but I think they are leaving everything out on the table because they do not have a POI in either case. Although, we are still waiting on the DNA sample in Princeton to come back in as of Fri night they still are requesting the publics help.
After reading this article closer it now appears that the person who submitted a DNA sample is familiar with the area where Vanessa was found. That is different that the LE stating as a fact that Vanessa's killer knows the cart road and the area where her body was found. How could they conclusively say this, they do not know who the killer is. Gee, hope that little rant makes sense.
Hopefully today we will have an update!
JMO
http://www.masslive.com/news/worcester/index.ssf/2016/08/report_dna_samples_being_teste.html
Sometimes it is not what LE say, it is what is not being said.
That is something in other cases they will announce.
I'm watching and waiting for LE to confirm anything and they have not.
They may have DNA but I think they are leaving everything out on the table because they do not have a POI in either case. Although, we are still waiting on the DNA sample in Princeton to come back in as of Fri night they still are requesting the publics help.
After reading this article closer it now appears that the person who submitted a DNA sample is familiar with the area where Vanessa was found. That is different that the LE stating as a fact that Vanessa's killer knows the cart road and the area where her body was found. How could they conclusively say this, they do not know who the killer is. Gee, hope that little rant makes sense.
Hopefully today we will have an update!
JMO
http://www.masslive.com/news/worcester/index.ssf/2016/08/report_dna_samples_being_teste.html
But according to the article they are still asking for any and all tips, even if it seems unimportant.
Sometimes it is not what LE say, it is what is not being said.
Madeleine74
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Perhaps so, but as of right now, I don't know of any case that fits a jogger being targeted based on her SM. If anyone does know, please do share.
I like Occam's Razor for a good reason. And also, "when you hear hooves, think horses, not zebras."
Oddmomout
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I found one report that VM had a boyfriend but he's out of the country and not considered a suspect. [video=twitter;762753161157349378]https://twitter.com/CherylFiandaca/status/762753161157349378[/video]
Lawdini01234
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Insightful post! Anything is possible is more of a figure of speech, don't you think? As in you still need to think within the realm of possibility.
ETA: want to add- within the realm of possibility with the facts given, anything else is assumptions and just that.
To be honest the assumption and anything is possible stuff is all over WS, seems to be par for the course with people having the freedom to think what they'd like and express opinions
Example of a killer who was extremely tech savvy: Gilgo State Park / Long Island Serial Killer who still hasn't been caught, operated for many years, profiled as working in IT / being very good with computers, even thought to collect victims' cell phones as trophies. Yet, it can be argued that these were crimes of opportunity - maybe a different, but similar kind. The killer sought his victims out via Craigslist, but profilers have said he probably only killed ones who he knew were convenient (they think he went to extreme lengths to decide who to go after using voice stress analysis in phone interactions).
Side note: I do not think the LISK carried out either attack, but am providing an example of a tech savvy killer that is recent and within close proximity to these crimes.
I disagree about making a generalization like that, especially since nowadays, almost everyone has a smart phone and/or access to a computer. But I do think that you're right in pointing out that we don't and will probably never have access to the data on each woman's phone (unless it's released to the public). However, these are still interesting and possible theories (until proved wrong). I enjoy reading this forum because so many different people bring unique perspectives to the case - from locals to detectives to young women who can identify with the victims and so on.
x_files
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interesting.
It's actually KM who had the boyfriend that is out of the country (source: her Instagram before it went private). There was a source that they broke up two days prior because she thought it was more "casual" than he did. Which made me think that she was potentially using dating apps to talk to or meet other men.
Edit: Or did they both have boyfriends that were out of the country at the time? Second source anywhere to back up that tweet?
x_files
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What about The Long Island Killer? Could this be a new hunting ground for him?
x_files
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Try this. Also look under Privacy and Settings:
http://newsroom.fb.com/news/2014/04/introducing-a-new-optional-feature-called-nearby-friends/
Doubt it. There were a few men who RANDOMLY inserted themselves into the narrative once the police started the (LISK) investigation (see: extremely weird GQ article). One of them fits the perpetrator profile (that law enforcement came up with) perfectly, checking off many points that are extremely specific and somewhat rare. IMO this is the perp, but there just doesn't seem to be enough physical evidence (or maybe they are still collecting it; it's hard when bodies are in the water for a long period of time; also hard to get search warrant without probable cause to see if suspect has victims' personal items). This suspect (?) has supposedly moved out the the country for a job, though.
But you never know! Profile developed as of now is too vague / doesn't match up, but also based on the profile they did compile for LISK, (EDIT: I am referring to Karina now) this crime doesn't counter it. So IDK.
Camerabug
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Mostly a re-hash but this headline is interesting:
FBI profiler on Vanessa Marcotte's killer: 'He had to know she had his DNA'
http://www.masslive.com/news/worces.../fbi_profiler_on_vanessa_marcotte_killer.html
FBI profiler on Vanessa Marcotte's killer: 'He had to know she had his DNA'
http://www.masslive.com/news/worces.../fbi_profiler_on_vanessa_marcotte_killer.html
What's interesting about that article and title is that they're saying (or just assuming?) she was burned postmortem. If she was then that would most likely prove that he knew she had his DNA, yes, but do we know for she she was burned after death? I do hope she was.
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