MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #2

[eucalyptuz]

It is a good point that people are making about experienced joggers and walkers using the verge of the road facing on-coming traffic for safety, vision and to step aside when necessary. Keeping that in mind along with reports of a parked vehicle (and street veiw captures below for reference):
-I wonder if Vanessa left home, proceeding north on the LHS of Brooks Station rd. Just before the cart path, the guard rail on the LHS of the road begins and the railing on the RHS road ends.
-The Google street view of the area directly to the north of the cart path show an area, now with a very narrow verge on the left because of the railing, but a wide, flat grassy verge on the right. Additionally there seems to be evidence of a lot foot traffic in these few hundred yards directly heading north of the cart path on the RHS.
-I think it's possible that joggers/walker perhaps use this little stretch of road where the guard rail "swaps side" to also swap sides to be on an open verge (regardless of the direction they are taking) .
-I also think that if a vehicle was parked directly to the southern end of the railing on the LHS it would additionally force a cautious jogger to the other side of the road at this point (with or without interaction with anybody)
-The distance between the LHS guard rail beginning and the RHS guard rail ending is only a matter of 20 yards or so...A distance easily covered by a quick person in pursuit... OR providing an opportunity for a person hiding in foliage at the entrance of the cart path to ambush a crossing jogger.

Photo 1 - facing north, approaching the start of the guard rail on LHS of the road (20-ish yards before the railing directly south of the cart path entrance ends)
Photo 2 - Facing north-west viewing the entrance to cart path and end of railing on RHS, also showing areas of worn grass on verge (foot/bike traffic?)
Photo 3 - Facing north, the expanse of road directly north of cart path entrance showing narrow verge on LHS and what looks like a path along the wide grassy verge on the RHS

 

[femalejogger]

Interesting thoughts on the guard rail. Eucalyptuz: you bring up some good points. Personally I wouldn't change sides of the road just because of the guard rail, but I might change sides to avoid a parked or disabled car. That would of course bring a northbound pedestrian within striking distance of the cart path.

Though it does seem that LE is confident a vehicle was involved, two things trouble me:
1. I can't see any sign of tire tracks entering the cart path. There should be two very obvious indentations along with flattened grass in the center where the car passed over the taller grass. I see neither in the early photos of the cart path.
2. It seems like a vehicle left on this road for more than a few minutes would have prompted a call to police (based upon other situations which generated police calls in Princeton!).

It appears that Princeton PD redacted some of the calls from Aug 7 from what they released to the Landmark so maybe there was a call about a disabled vehicle. If there was a call, one would expect LE to have released some sort of description or at a least a color.

 

[zoso]

For the vehicle not to leave impressions in the grass or possible treadmarks, it would have have to have been parked on Brooks Station or in that driveway close by. In the driveway would alert the homeowners, unless they were out of town (and the perp possibly knew it) or he was supposed to be there... or he got lucky. Parked on Brooks, that would look odd and probably alert Vanessa to pay attention AND possibly cause a LE interaction. LE could at least tell if recent vehicles were trucks or cars from any depressions in the grassy wide areas before/after the guardrail/at the path entrance.

According to the police log. There was a suspicious maroon van 8/4 with TWO occupants in Sterling on Sandy Ridge Rd. 99% chance unrelated but...brings up if there may have been two perps and a Van as a vehicle would be very possible/cliche.

 

[Camerabug]

The Fire Department did assist the police..wonder if there was any smoldering or if they called in the Fire Marshal to add clarity to that piece of the investigation.

8/7 11:04 p.m. Brooks Station Rd. Assist Police department

http://www.thelandmark.com/news/2016-08-11/Fire_(and)_Police/Fire_Calls.html

 

[DatelineFan]

The Fire Department did assist the police..wonder if there was any smoldering or if they called in the Fire Marshal to add clarity to that piece of the investigation.

8/7 11:04 p.m. Brooks Station Rd. Assist Police department

http://www.thelandmark.com/news/2016-08-11/Fire_(and)_Police/Fire_Calls.html

I've been wondering about this. I'm curious if there was smoldering that possibly even helped searchers find her. Perhaps they're leaving that detail out from the public for now? It's strange to me that he could burn those trees without any ensuing fire in the heat and dry.

 

[webweaved]

I've been wondering about this. I'm curious if there was smoldering that possibly even helped searchers find her. Perhaps they're leaving that detail out from the public for now? It's strange to me that he could burn those trees without any ensuing fire in the heat and dry.

This! I remember reading that. I wonder too.

 

[eucalyptuz]

I wonder if police DID find evidence of tire tracks which would explain the continued appeals for sightings of cars - keeping in mind that most of the photos and videos we are seeing were taken several days after the crime and so tire tracks etc would mostly have been obliterated by the time any news crews got in there. A grassy verge is not necessarily the best substrate to preserve tread marks, with or without rain and 100s of police personnel...

 

[webweaved]

You are correct, the call came in @ 5:07

Thank you so much! Appreciate you looking.

 

[Tempura]

It is a good point that people are making about experienced joggers and walkers using the verge of the road facing on-coming traffic for safety, vision and to step aside when necessary. Keeping that in mind along with reports of a parked vehicle (and street veiw captures below for reference):
-I wonder if Vanessa left home, proceeding north on the LHS of Brooks Station rd. Just before the cart path, the guard rail on the LHS of the road begins and the railing on the RHS road ends.
-The Google street view of the area directly to the north of the cart path show an area, now with a very narrow verge on the left because of the railing, but a wide, flat grassy verge on the right. Additionally there seems to be evidence of a lot foot traffic in these few hundred yards directly heading north of the cart path on the RHS.
-I think it's possible that joggers/walker perhaps use this little stretch of road where the guard rail "swaps side" to also swap sides to be on an open verge (regardless of the direction they are taking) .
-I also think that if a vehicle was parked directly to the southern end of the railing on the LHS it would additionally force a cautious jogger to the other side of the road at this point (with or without interaction with anybody)
-The distance between the LHS guard rail beginning and the RHS guard rail ending is only a matter of 20 yards or so...A distance easily covered by a quick person in pursuit... OR providing an opportunity for a person hiding in foliage at the entrance of the cart path to ambush a crossing jogger.

Photo 1 - facing north, approaching the start of the guard rail on LHS of the road (20-ish yards before the railing directly south of the cart path entrance ends)
Photo 2 - Facing north-west viewing the entrance to cart path and end of railing on RHS, also showing areas of worn grass on verge (foot/bike traffic?)
Photo 3 - Facing north, the expanse of road directly north of cart path entrance showing narrow verge on LHS and what looks like a path along the wide grassy verge on the RHS

Such good points about that guardrail! Someone would definitely use the grassy shoulder when they could, regardless of direction. (In my opinion)

 

[webweaved]

I wonder if police DID find evidence of tire tracks which would explain the continued appeals for sightings of cars - keeping in mind that most of the photos and videos we are seeing were taken several days after the crime and so tire tracks etc would mostly have been obliterated by the time any news crews got in there.

Yeah that scene was trampled. LE dug, took stuff with them...they bagged a ton of stuff. If they found tire prints, guaranteed they plastered them. I'm sure there is way more evidence than we know about. I read last night there was a belt hanging from a tree? I saw it in one story and it was never printed again. What was that about? Maybe it was unrelated and just something they found in the woods? I'll go find the story and link. Be back...JMO

 

[Tempura]

Yeah that scene was trampled. LE dug, took stuff with them...they bagged a ton of stuff. If they found tire prints, guaranteed they plastered them. I'm sure there is way more evidence than we know about. I read last night there was a belt hanging from a tree? I saw it in one story and it was never printed again. What was that about? Maybe it was unrelated and just something they found in the woods? I'll go find the story and link. Be back...JMO

Oh goodness... That detail coupled with the burning of the trees up farther than ground level is really chilling..

 

[Camerabug]

The closest thing we are going to get for a timeline for police deployment from the Princeton Police. Interesting read, nonetheless.

https://www.facebook.com/PrincetonPoliceDepartment/

 

[webweaved]

Oh goodness... That detail coupled with the burning of the trees up farther than ground level is really chilling..

Found it! http://www.telegram.com/article/20160808/NEWS/160809371 - did he tie her to the tree or hang her up with it or is it completely unrelated at all? The burn pattern is odd how its up high and not at bottom of tree. At first when I read this I thought oh the guy hung his belt up taking it off to rape her...then I was like..who has time to hang up a belt? Why would you? IDK. JMO.

 

[junebug85]

The Fire Department did assist the police..wonder if there was any smoldering or if they called in the Fire Marshal to add clarity to that piece of the investigation.

8/7 11:04 p.m. Brooks Station Rd. Assist Police department

http://www.thelandmark.com/news/2016-08-11/Fire_(and)_Police/Fire_Calls.html

LE have been saying they found her at 11:20, so I'm thinking the call the at 11:04 was LE noticing a smoldering/a bit of smoke, calling for assistance and THEN discovering her body.

 

[Madeleine74]

According to all the first news reports, LE found her body because of a trained canine. It was about 8:30pm-ish that evening so it was after sunset.

It does not appear it was a fire or smoldering that led them to the spot, but the wondrous nose of man's best friend. Police noted singed areas, but nothing was said about active smoldering, so whatever burning was done was likely over by the time VM was found.

The area also does not appear to be widely burned, just the immediate spot(s). In fact, had that area not been pointed out I don't know if I would have noticed it as being a burned area at all.

 

[junebug85]

According to all the first news reports, LE found her body because of a trained canine. It was about 8:30pm-ish that evening so it was after sunset.

It does not appear it was a fire or smoldering that led them to the spot, but the wondrous nose of man's best friend. Police noted singed areas, but nothing was said about active smoldering, so whatever burning was done was likely over by the time VM was found.

The area also does not appear to be widely burned, just the immediate spot(s). In fact, had that area not been pointed out I don't know if I would have noticed it as being a burned area at all.

Thanks for the correction. I don't know why I had 11:20 pm in my mind. Is there something else that happened in our timeline at that hour? I'm not following any other stories so I didn't confuse it with another case. Anyway, it's interesting to me that they asked for assistance from the fire department 3 hours after she was found. I really wish LE would clarify some of the information about the burning but it's understandable they are holding their cards close to their chest for now.

 

[Camerabug]

Yeah that scene was trampled. LE dug, took stuff with them...they bagged a ton of stuff. If they found tire prints, guaranteed they plastered them. I'm sure there is way more evidence than we know about. I read last night there was a belt hanging from a tree? I saw it in one story and it was never printed again. What was that about? Maybe it was unrelated and just something they found in the woods? I'll go find the story and link. Be back...JMO

Are you a local? I'm sure they bag things, but did you see this? I'm curious! Do tell!

 

[Parch]

"officers reported finding nothing; only an old leather belt hanging from a tree attracted a brief stop and closer look."

I sure hope that got a "brief stop" and a "closer look"... Considering.. Sheesh!
on a brighter note.. If it was related to this crime, there would most certainly be a lot of fingerprints on a belt..

 

[webweaved]

Are you a local? I'm sure they bag things, but did you see this? I'm curious! Do tell!

Not local, I'm in Atlanta, you can go back and watch news videos and see the bags. They look pretty full to me.
Read the articles, it talks about LE digging and taking things with them. JMO.

 

[jowens73]

Found it! http://www.telegram.com/article/20160808/NEWS/160809371 - did he tie her to the tree or hang her up with it or is it completely unrelated at all? The burn pattern is odd how its up high and not at bottom of tree. At first when I read this I thought oh the guy hung his belt up taking it off to rape her...then I was like..who has time to hang up a belt? Why would you? IDK. JMO.

Doesn't really sound as if the belt was found near the crime scene-- correct me if I'm wrong