MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #3

[Madeleine74]

Once again the meaning of posts has been subverted and twisted for a straw man argument.

A couple posters had been sharing feelings of fear either they or someone they know is experiencing or they have been wondering about safety in a community in which something bad like this has happened. Posts addressing those concerns are the ones I wrote, with the advice commonly given by community leaders and LE (not to mention moms everywhere).

There was also some deletion of posts yesterday because of TOS violations, leaving some of my and others' posts that now don't appear to make much sense or appear completely out of context because the posts I and others were responding to are now gone.

The agenda to take common sense advice -- advice that given by experts everywhere -- and turn it into some kind of claim of propaganda against women and freedom in general is ridiculous and transparent.

Anyone of any gender who wants to go off alone running/hiking/walking/skipping into any area, including remote areas, is free to do so! It's America. You are free. Go be free!

 

[medtraveler]

I hope they are most deeply investigatingng the social media aspect of this case. The more time goes by, the more Im convinced this is the result of social media stalking. There is a consensus about how unlikely that a perp would trouble themselves with following Vanessa onto a bus, steaking out her neighborhood, and lying in wait for the off chance that she'll jog a specific route at a specific time and jog it alone. But gone are the days where all the variables have to line up, all you have to do is sit in front of your laptop and let the victim tell you exactly what their plans are, where, why, and how. Young people are putting ALL their business out there, all of the time. People don't realize they are serving themselves on a platter for sickos of this world. There are shows on the ID channel that talk about online stalking, but it mostly focuses on unwitting and troubled teens talking to older men. I don't have cable, but whenever Im in a hotel room, I'll watch nonstop ID channel...and they don't seem to talk about grown responsible women just living their lives but maybe putting too much out there because everyone wants a lot of followers, either because being internet famous is a potential source of income, or some just like the attention. Then strangers become obsessed with them, or someone who is looking for their next victim finds the perfect mark, and someone to their taste. Who knows how many women have gone missing because of having highly active cyber-personalities, these are just the ones getting media attention.

 

[eucalyptuz]

I hope they are most deeply investigatingng the social media aspect of this case. The more time goes by, the more Im convinced this is the result of social media stalking. There is a consensus about how unlikely that a perp would trouble themselves with following Vanessa onto a bus, steaking out her neighborhood, and lying in wait for the off chance that she'll jog a specific route at a specific time and jog it alone. But gone are the days where all the variables have to line up, all you have to do is sit in front of your laptop and let the victim tell you exactly what their plans are, where, why, and how. Young people are putting ALL their business out there, all of the time. People don't realize they are serving themselves on a platter for sickos of this world. There are shows on the ID channel that talk about online stalking, but it mostly focuses on unwitting and troubled teens talking to older men. I don't have cable, but whenever Im in a hotel room, I'll watch nonstop ID channel...and they don't seem to talk about grown responsible women just living their lives but maybe putting too much out there because everyone wants a lot of followers, either because being internet famous is a potential source of income, or some just like the attention. Then strangers become obsessed with them, or someone who is looking for their next victim finds the perfect mark, and someone to their taste. Who knows how many women have gone missing because of having highly active cyber-personalities, these are just the ones getting media attention.

I am sure the social media angle of this case is being thoroughly checked and I think it goes without saying that looking at the pings, geo-locations and online activity of any victim and potential suspect is routine these days. I have not followed really followed the case of Karina Vetrano as much as I have this one, but by comparison, and IMO, Vanessa seems to have had quite a small, publicly-visible online footprint compared to many cases we see on websleuths. Of course it does not necessarily take much to unknowingly engage a stalker. A polite smile at a turnstile, someone on the same morning commute or as you say, a social media connection. I just feel in this case Vanessa didn't not to seem be one to splash her whole life out there on Twitter etc. And while, in restrospect, a social media platform that tracks jogging routes may seem unwise, it is necessary to become a member to see that kind of data so there will be an electronic trail.
On this case, one of the frustrating things is that we just don't know what angles the police are following. Some states/police depts make warrant information publicly available and the media can then report on lead directions and lines of inquiry, but on this case despite the 100s of tips, there is very little information available as to where this investigation is going.

 

[bettiepageturner]

I hope they are most deeply investigatingng the social media aspect of this case. The more time goes by, the more Im convinced this is the result of social media stalking. There is a consensus about how unlikely that a perp would trouble themselves with following Vanessa onto a bus, steaking out her neighborhood, and lying in wait for the off chance that she'll jog a specific route at a specific time and jog it alone. But gone are the days where all the variables have to line up, all you have to do is sit in front of your laptop and let the victim tell you exactly what their plans are, where, why, and how. Young people are putting ALL their business out there, all of the time. People don't realize they are serving themselves on a platter for sickos of this world. There are shows on the ID channel that talk about online stalking, but it mostly focuses on unwitting and troubled teens talking to older men. I don't have cable, but whenever Im in a hotel room, I'll watch nonstop ID channel...and they don't seem to talk about grown responsible women just living their lives but maybe putting too much out there because everyone wants a lot of followers, either because being internet famous is a potential source of income, or some just like the attention. Then strangers become obsessed with them, or someone who is looking for their next victim finds the perfect mark, and someone to their taste. Who knows how many women have gone missing because of having highly active cyber-personalities, these are just the ones getting media attention.

I don't necessarily disagree, but how does this work in practice, really? I haven't read of a verified case where this occurred. People post "evidence" of living their lives after the fact. It's not live. It's filtered, checked for flattering angles of all involved parties, geotagged if the location is interesting, and made public or private depending on the intent. I use mapmyrun (not for social reasons, just for record keeping), instagram, snapchat, facebook, and every other offending medium, as do most of my friends - anything directly connected to a personally identifiable location like a home address isn't shared because, well, that's not interesting. I went on a pretty trail run, maybe to a club? If you're seeing photos of it it happened days, maybe weeks ago, and it probably won't happen again any time soon, lol. I can't speak to how VM used social media, but I'm around that age and anything offering any kind of traceable information would just be an odd use of these sites. Frankly, anyone who checks in with crap like "ON MY WAY TO CRACKER BARREL ON ROUTE 47!! SO LONELY!!!.. </3" is uh.. probably not the kind of person to have a following in the first place, much less one of personally known/unknown stalkers.

the only case I can think of where a perp was obsessed with someone's social media before killing them was the horrific Lauren Giddings case, and she was also his classmate and neighbor. A random psychotic vagrant just wouldn't be in a position to access something like that and use it. IMO.

(edit: I do acknowledge the insecure teen/older predator SM dynamic occurs, of course)

 

[Crimeblocker]

Amen Marble. You verbalized exactly what I have been feeling in response to these posts, but was unable to put into words.

VM did not put herself in an inherently dangerous situation when she set out that day. By all rights, she should have come home safely.

Honestly I don't believe anyone is implying that any victim is responsible for their own assault. Everyone unquestionably should be able to dress, behave however and go wherever they want. The word " responsible" in life implies more to the idea of taking care of yourself, wearing a bike helmet, don't drink and drive, don't smoke in bed, wear a seat belt etc...protect yourself to the best of your ability, a bit of self love- responsibility to oneself. Venessa did this, she was a responsible adult. She was out taking a run, that's all. Posts about women being vigilant are exactly what she tweeted two years ago about a self defense class that she urged other women to take. Maybe I missed the posts you are referring to but I haven't seen anything about the victim having been blamed for making bad choices ? A few years ago another girl went missing while jogging in Gainsville, FL, sadly in our society opportunist situations quickly become known to perpetrators.....this is what they study ! You now have 3 girls within a week killed while jogging ( Michigan, New York, Massachusetts) and an attempted abduction in the same county as Princeton in June. Do I believe these are related, not necessarily but I do believe that the News is out to predators that women jogging alone are opportunist situations for them to prey upon. JMO....and yes this is a shared responsibility by LE, the community and the individual to protect but often the individual is completely alone and awareness becomes critical.

 

[Crimeblocker]

I don't necessarily disagree, but how does this work in practice, really? I haven't read of a verified case where this occurred. People post "evidence" of living their lives after the fact. It's not live. It's filtered, checked for flattering angles of all involved parties, geotagged if the location is interesting, and made public or private depending on the intent. I use mapmyrun (not for social reasons, just for record keeping), instagram, snapchat, facebook, and every other offending medium, as do most of my friends - anything directly connected to a personally identifiable location like a home address isn't shared because, well, that's not interesting. I went on a pretty trail run, maybe to a club? If you're seeing photos of it it happened days, maybe weeks ago, and it probably won't happen again any time soon, lol. I can't speak to how VM used social media, but I'm around that age and anything offering any kind of traceable information would just be an odd use of these sites. Frankly, anyone who checks in with crap like "ON MY WAY TO CRACKER BARREL ON ROUTE 47!! SO LONELY!!!.. </3" is uh.. probably not the kind of person to have a following in the first place, much less one of personally known/unknown stalkers.

the only case I can think of where a perp was obsessed with someone's social media before killing them was the horrific Lauren Giddings case, and she was also his classmate and neighbor. A random psychotic vagrant just wouldn't be in a position to access something like that and use it. IMO.

(edit: I do acknowledge the insecure teen/older predator SM dynamic occurs, of course)

Well obsession stems from the subconscious so years ago that was about "actually seeing someone" somewhere either in person or on tv ( several actors are consistently stalked.) Social Media especially Instagram has brought the occasional viewing of a person into a whole new light ( think debit card vs check writing - much easier and more convenient right ? ) In today's world the obsessed individual has access to photos, where abouts, patterns of behavior ( hobbies etc...and that person's friends list, which in fact "opens even more doors "to her activities and whereabouts. Facebook and Instagram are excellent social media sites for reconnecting, communicating on and on ....but they are also target practice for naive and vulnerable users. Fromthese sites you progress on to matchmaking sites ? Again, just like life, pluses and minuses, good and evil. There is nothing wrong with suggesting we need to be vigilant without being paranoid.Recently I said to a 25 year old woman " it's a shame Venessa didn't have mace " and the reply was " she probably did carry it in New York ". Sadly, it isn't about cities anymore, crime is everywhere. Who or what is to blame ? I have no answer to that, I do know it isn't the victim's fault.

 

[bettiepageturner]

Well obsession stems from the subconscious so years ago that was about "actually seeing someone" somewhere either in person or on tv ( several actors are consistently stalked.) Social Media especially Instagram has brought the occasional viewing of a person into a whole new light ( think debit card vs check writing - much easier and more convenient right ? ) In today's world the obsessed individual has access to photos, where abouts, patterns of behavior ( hobbies etc...and that person's friends list, which in fact "opens even more doors "to her activities and whereabouts. Facebook and Instagram are excellent social media sites for reconnecting, communicating on and on ....but they are also target practice for naive and vulnerable users. Fromthese sites you progress on to matchmaking sites ? Again, just like life, pluses and minuses, good and evil. There is nothing wrong with suggesting we need to be vigilant without being paranoid.Recently I said to a 25 year old woman " it's a shame Venessa didn't have mace " and the reply was " she probably did carry it in New York ". Sadly, it isn't about cities anymore, crime is everywhere. Who or what is to blame ? I have no answer to that, I do know it isn't the victim's fault.

bbm - definitely not Vanessa.

I agree that nobody is to blame. A person posting photos of their life is absolutely not to blame. But like.. you see a beautiful woman posting on instagram about a bar she went to last week. Next week she's in a different country on vacation. The next week she posts a #tbt from her time on campus. What shall a murderous basement dweller glean from this information? Some photos/accounts have geotracking? What, specifically, is done with this, and has there been a case of this being somehow used maliciously?

Nobody responds to a rando complimenting them or trying to befriend them on FB if they don't know them. There are entire subreddits (/r/creepypms, for instance) dedicated to screenshots of people trying to talk to somebody they don't know on the basis of their rare public photo.

I'm 100% about responsible social media usage and not giving up delicate information to random creepers. I know my mom is concerned about this, I know my brother is concerned about this with his kids now that they're approaching middle school age. I'm just recommending a closer look at the practicalities of this alleged danger. VM was a beautiful, successful woman with a large network of social and familial support. She's not the insecure 12 year old on Deviantart making plans to meet up with a lonely 37 year-old predator. This isn't the situation to turn into a learning moment about social media savvy - see the case with Alexis Murphy in VA. So many were convinced the "scandalous" content on her tumblr was her death sentence, but the perp was someone who was known to stalk people in parking lots, and he didn't even have an internet connection. IMO this is just not the channel to address in tragedies like this. If anything, pretty much anyone's sudden LACK of SM activity would make people worry. Social media is a healthy way, like you said, to keep in touch with people - in 99% of horrific cases like this it just doesn't come into play.

 

[Crimeblocker]

bbm - definitely not Vanessa.

I agree that nobody is to blame. A person posting photos of their life is absolutely not to blame. But like.. you see a beautiful woman posting on instagram about a bar she went to last week. Next week she's in a different country on vacation. The next week she posts a #tbt from her time on campus. What shall a murderous basement dweller glean from this information? Some photos/accounts have geotracking? What, specifically, is done with this, and has there been a case of this being somehow used maliciously?

Nobody responds to a rando complimenting them or trying to befriend them on FB if they don't know them. There are entire subreddits (/r/creepypms, for instance) dedicated to screenshots of people trying to talk to somebody they don't know on the basis of their rare public photo.

I'm 100% about responsible social media usage and not giving up delicate information to random creepers. I know my mom is concerned about this, I know my brother is concerned about this with his kids now that they're approaching middle school age. I'm just recommending a closer look at the practicalities of this alleged danger. VM was a beautiful, successful woman with a large network of social and familial support. She's not the insecure 12 year old on Deviantart making plans to meet up with a lonely 37 year-old predator. This isn't the situation to turn into a learning moment about social media savvy - see the case with Alexis Murphy in VA. So many were convinced the "scandalous" content on her tumblr was her death sentence, but the perp was someone who was known to stalk people in parking lots, and he didn't even have an internet connection. IMO this is just not the channel to address in tragedies like this. If anything, pretty much anyone's sudden LACK of SM activity would make people worry. Social media is a healthy way, like you said, to keep in touch with people - in 99% of horrific cases like this it just doesn't come into play.

Yes, I agree and in most cases social media does not come into play however there is a reason Facebook Pages and Instagram sites are the first to be sought after by LE and removed quickly after a crime has been committed because there are inevitably " clues" on those pages. To a trained eye it may be as simple as a random message posted 2 months previous. Friend Lists, especially in those that through school or work have many connections, can open several avenues for investigation. Personally
I don't believe that social media was the catalyst in this attack. Social Media was brought up by another poster and I responded to the pluses and minuses that cyber world offers us. Your mother and brother should be concerned, younger
people are in a vulnerable position from cyber bullying to " catfish creeping ". I have been acquainted with a 16 year old that was a victim of a sex trafficker and countless other kids that suffer acute anxiety and depression from remarks made on social media. Of course Venessa Macotte does not fall into this age bracket of vulnerability and was by all accounts extremely responsible. But If a subject is brought up on this site that encourages awareness for anyone than we should respond. Venessa's horrific murder could be anything from a random manical attack to a well planned attack. First and foremost a victim is never at fault, there is one person responsible for the assault and that is your killer. I personally believe that we need to go back to ground zero with our children in teaching everything from compassion, tolerance and acceptance to self awareness, protection and respect. If nothing changes, nothing changes. This murder shouldn't have happened and wouldn't have in a perfect world, but that isn't available to us ....but certainly worth working toward.

 

[BelleIsle]

bbm - definitely not Vanessa.

I agree that nobody is to blame. A person posting photos of their life is absolutely not to blame. But like.. you see a beautiful woman posting on instagram about a bar she went to last week. Next week she's in a different country on vacation. The next week she posts a #tbt from her time on campus. What shall a murderous basement dweller glean from this information? Some photos/accounts have geotracking? What, specifically, is done with this, and has there been a case of this being somehow used maliciously?

Nobody responds to a rando complimenting them or trying to befriend them on FB if they don't know them. There are entire subreddits (/r/creepypms, for instance) dedicated to screenshots of people trying to talk to somebody they don't know on the basis of their rare public photo.

I'm 100% about responsible social media usage and not giving up delicate information to random creepers. I know my mom is concerned about this, I know my brother is concerned about this with his kids now that they're approaching middle school age. I'm just recommending a closer look at the practicalities of this alleged danger. VM was a beautiful, successful woman with a large network of social and familial support. She's not the insecure 12 year old on Deviantart making plans to meet up with a lonely 37 year-old predator. This isn't the situation to turn into a learning moment about social media savvy - see the case with Alexis Murphy in VA. So many were convinced the "scandalous" content on her tumblr was her death sentence, but the perp was someone who was known to stalk people in parking lots, and he didn't even have an internet connection. IMO this is just not the channel to address in tragedies like this. If anything, pretty much anyone's sudden LACK of SM activity would make people worry. Social media is a healthy way, like you said, to keep in touch with people - in 99% of horrific cases like this it just doesn't come into play.

IMHO it (posting online without anonymity) makes it much easier to stalk someone than when we had no way of tracking people at all. Or had to actually physically spy and follow someone. The comments on posted pictures also tell stories and give people clues as to where someone will be. Many people have public social accounts including Facebook, or they have like 1000 friends on what should be a private account. Do they really intimately know all of these people? Would they trust them in their home? That is my basic rule for social networking, if I would not have you in my home, you are not going to be privy to knowing about my life in any other way. There are also settings where you can see the activity from friends of friends etc.

Obviously, I do not know that it played a part in this horrific murder, or the murder of KV, but in general I do think that it allows people to feel much more confident about stalking someone, and gives them an ability to sit back and watch and wait for an opportunity to present itself. It also could be a trigger to cause someone to feel that they have a relationship with a person who they only know through social posting, a false sense of intimacy...which could lead to a frustrating obsession. No victim blaming here, all of the fault lies with the person who becomes obsessed, and probably would take that route even if social networking was not made public. It only makes it that much easier because much of it is.

 

[DavidC]

I don't think sock boy is the guy.

Anyone ever turned their cell phone off after calling in sick to work. I know I have. It could be that sock boy just didn't want to be bothered by his employer.

As far as being interviewed in socks, perhaps that's because a reporter just showed up at his door and he didn't want to be interviewed inside his home. So he simply stepped outside without putting shoes on.

Sock boy giving DNA......and his willingness to be interviewed............leads me to believe he is not the guy.

 

[Steleheart]

I feel the need to address this issue. The man in the socks freely gave his DNA because he was called in as a tip. Since we do not know his identity and he chose not to appear on camera, for some unknown reason he was interviewed in just his socks. Perhaps his footwear is distinctive and he chose to remove them for his own sake.

If it turns out that this man is innocent, then he too is a victim and this is a victim friendly site. It is normally our point of view that anyone negatively impacted by a crime like this is considered to have been victimized.

Can we please stop vilifying this man with this disparaging name since he has not been named a POI.

Not to mention a MOD has already warned about it and removed/ edited posts using that name.

I wonder sometimes - what if someone implicated me and I was innocent? Do I want Websleuthers and thus the entire internet talking about me this way? Would you?


:cow:

 

[Madeleine74]

So what name would you recommend we call or refer to him since:

1. He was in the media, having given an interview, which was totally his choice
2. He did not reveal his name
3. The distinguishing physical thing is that he was wearing no shoes and was, in fact, wearing socks on his feet, and that's what appeared on screen the entire interview
4. What exactly is disparaging about "socks?" It's a noun without any adjective next to it.

I agree he should not be considered a suspect in the case, but he did get questioned, he did willingly submit DNA, and he most definitely did agree to talk to a TV news reporter, on camera.

 

[FindHG]

Forgive me if any of this is repetition, as I'm catching up on the two threads. Karina Vetrano and Vanessa Marcotte, beside their physical resemblance, age group, that they were joggers, and with successful active life styles, are there any other known similarities in their activities that's yet known?

Could this be a local copycat?
Why, if he's not in the DNA database, would he need to burn her body?
Could it have been fear of local suspicion falling on him?
If it is a copycat, could those similarities mentioned above have triggered his going after Vanessa?
If that's the case, could this local have had a thing for her then planned and acted out as he followed coverage of Karina's case?
If he did, would there be some way to track him down through his online activity following Karina's story obsessively and other things that would point to violent sexual ideation?
If he has bruises and the such, he may have had to call in sick to work until his injuries cleared, which he probably wasn't planning on, it stands to reason? Or was the case with Hannah Graham's convicted killer, who told co-workers he had a tooth ache, he could have covered for the injuries somehow.
Why do they assume he was in a car? Could have been riding a bike or on foot?


If the DNA found in both of these crime match, I assume it would be announced.

 

[carbuff]

About ten to fifteen years ago, there were several incidents in central Massachusetts region where animals were found burned and mutilated. There were rumors about who the person was, but since it was a minor, nothing official was ever released and it wasn't in the newspapers or anything. (I knew one of the people on whose property an animal was found.) I wonder if we're looking at that kind of person, a young person who has a record of tormenting animals starting fires but never got in real trouble for it because boys will be boys?

Pure speculation on my part. It just strikes me as that kind of crime.

 

[FindHG]

Vanessa jogged every Sunday. Not suggesting that it could be in any way related, but there's a Bible camp along Brook Station Rd, in terms of the people she may have come across on Sundays who may not have been very local.

Map Link

Could that facility possible have security cams? There's also a residence at the end of a long long driveway along the road that's up on a bit of a hill. Could they have had security cams facing down toward the road?

 

[WideOpen]

Forgive me if any of this is repetition, as I'm catching up on the two threads. Karina Vetrano and Vanessa Marcotte, beside their physical resemblance, age group, that they were joggers, and with successful active life styles, are there any other known similarities in their activities that's yet known?

Could this be a local copycat?
Why, if he's not in the DNA database, would he need to burn her body?
Could it have been fear of local suspicion falling on him?
If it is a copycat, could those similarities mentioned above have triggered his going after Vanessa?
If that's the case, could this local have had a thing for her then planned and acted out as he followed coverage of Karina's case?
If he did, would there be some way to track him down through his online activity following Karina's story obsessively and other things that would point to violent sexual ideation?
If he has bruises and the such, he may have had to call in sick to work until his injuries cleared, which he probably wasn't planning on, it stands to reason? Or was the case with Hannah Graham's convicted killer, who told co-workers he had a tooth ache, he could have covered for the injuries somehow.
Why do they assume he was in a car? Could have been riding a bike or on foot?


If the DNA found in both of these crime match, I assume it would be announced.

Welcome to the thread for Vanessa FindHG.
I have seen your sleuthing skills in action and appreciate your style!

One thing that I find that they have in common is they are both Catholic.
Probably nothing but I found it interesting as we had gathered similarities earlier and it was not mentioned by anyone at that time.

Why they have assumed there was a car is a mystery to me. I believed a bicycle or other mode of exiting the scene was possible and probable (if they were not asking for witnesses about a car between 1-3 that day in that location). Also, I am not convinced that she was killed there while a vehicle was parked on the lane, which makes me wonder if she was just dropped there afterwards.
I'm sorry I am not much help.

JMO

 

[Crimeblocker]

About ten to fifteen years ago, there were several incidents in central Massachusetts region where animals were found burned and mutilated. There were rumors about who the person was, but since it was a minor, nothing official was ever released and it wasn't in the newspapers or anything. (I knew one of the people on whose property an animal was found.) I wonder if we're looking at that kind of person, a young person who has a record of tormenting animals starting fires but never got in real trouble for it because boys will be boys?

Pure speculation on my part. It just strikes me as that kind of crime.

Yes, it could be a crime of escalation, a crime that evolved over time from torturing animals to finally murdering a human being. Warning signs for a future serial killer are the mutulation, torturing, burning or physical harassment of animals. One should never ignore a child who has negative aggressive behavior toward an animal. These acts reflect an inability to empathize or feel the pain of another living creature. It's a frightening trait and " never" a good sign. Are LE enforcement aware of this person ? Did you know this person ? If he were a minor at that time that puts this person in the prime serial killer years of 25-33 if this happened fifteen years ago and assuming he was between 10- 18 at the time ? Certainly worth taking a look at IMO

 

[FindHG]

Welcome to the thread for Vanessa FindHG.
I have seen your sleuthing skills in action and appreciate your style!

One thing that I find that they have in common is they are both Catholic.
Probably nothing but I found it interesting as we had gathered similarities earlier and it was not mentioned by anyone at that time.

Why they have assumed there was a car is a mystery to me. I believed a bicycle or other mode of exiting the scene was possible and probable (if they were not asking for witnesses about a car between 1-3 that day in that location). Also, I am not convinced that she was killed there while a vehicle was parked on the lane, which makes me wonder if she was just dropped there afterwards.
I'm sorry I am not much help.

JMO

Thank you, WideOpen, for appreciating my stumbling & bumbling...

Interesting information. Burning her in broad daylight seems so so strange, twisted, and cruel. Why just her hands, feet and face? Maybe there was more motivating the act than just his covering his tracks in some way?

There's that whole baptism by fire thing in Exodus http://biblehub.com/exodus/29-25.htm, but I am no expert and hesitate to go down this line of speculation.

 

[OldSteve]

Vanessa jogged every Sunday. Not suggesting that it could be in any way related, but there's a Bible camp along Brook Station Rd, in terms of the people she may have come across on Sundays who may not have been very local.

Map Link

Could that facility possible have security cams? There's also a residence at the end of a long long driveway along the road that's up on a bit of a hill. Could they have had security cams facing down toward the road?

Wow! Interesting find... could the burning be some kind of symbolic thing? Not saying anyone at the bible camp did this, but thinking "outside the box" as to why she was burned like that.

 

[OldSteve]

Forgive me if any of this is repetition, as I'm catching up on the two threads. Karina Vetrano and Vanessa Marcotte, beside their physical resemblance, age group, that they were joggers, and with successful active life styles, are there any other known similarities in their activities that's yet known?

Could this be a local copycat?
Why, if he's not in the DNA database, would he need to burn her body?
Could it have been fear of local suspicion falling on him?
If it is a copycat, could those similarities mentioned above have triggered his going after Vanessa?
If that's the case, could this local have had a thing for her then planned and acted out as he followed coverage of Karina's case?
If he did, would there be some way to track him down through his online activity following Karina's story obsessively and other things that would point to violent sexual ideation?
If he has bruises and the such, he may have had to call in sick to work until his injuries cleared, which he probably wasn't planning on, it stands to reason? Or was the case with Hannah Graham's convicted killer, who told co-workers he had a tooth ache, he could have covered for the injuries somehow.
Why do they assume he was in a car? Could have been riding a bike or on foot?


If the DNA found in both of these crime match, I assume it would be announced.

Somewhere back thread I posted a picture of Vanessa taken at the beach in the Rockaways which is not that far as the crow flies, from where Karina was found... still, I think if anything this might be a copycat attack, or simply a coincidence...

Here's the photo again..

http://heavy.com/news/2016/08/vanes...o-leads-murdered-jogger-evidence-latest-news/

ETA: With the backlog in entering rape kit DNA into CODIS, the killer may think his has been entered, when it hasn't yet be done...
ETA: Great to see you on this thread!