MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #3

[Crimeblocker]

35 plus years of running for me - in hot climates around the world - and no offers of water either. In fact, I am rarely approached at all while jogging (though I often get stopped for directions when out walking). I could definitely see how the woman in Shirley would have been freaked out by that van, especially in light of what happened in Princeton.

That said, I think there are much more subtle ways a potential attacker could get close to a victim. If you walk or jog at the same time in the same location you are going to routinely see the same people and you are going to develop some level of comfort with them. Similarly, as Kateinfl pointed out, another jogger isn't likely to raise any suspicion and could easily get close enough to do harm. Same with a dog walker or someone with a child. Though we would all like to think we would be wary enough, alert enough, suspicious enough, etc to ward off an attack, the reality is that our basic manners and decency are probably going to kick in when approached by someone who appears normal and we are not going to start screaming, running, or fighting someone until the danger is obvious and it may be too late. And even if the person is a bit sketchy, we will likely hesitate to sound an alarm for fear of embarrassing or insulting the other person. If a stray dog runs up to me, I won't hesitate to scream, but if a fellow human politely approaches me, I will likely let them get close enough that they could act nefariously if they chose.

I think you're right when familiarized with someone or something we tend to stifle a reaction of fear, I mean after all we recognize them and who would harm a person that could identify them ? A killer would. I often wonder if VM recognized this person and was caught off guard by an appeal for help ( my dog ran off into the woods, I am having car trouble do you have a cell phone?). Several scenarios come to mind or was it a simple ambush from behind right at the path ? Could she have been given Ether ? This chemical renders you somewhat unconscious for a brief period of time- long enough to drag her down that path before she regain consciousness and fought back ? Ether is easily accessible and highly flammable. Could this be your solvent ? Could your perpetrator be a bit laboratory savvy ? https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/diethyl_ether#section=Top

 

[FindHG]

There was a report of a woman jogging in a park being raped by a man in a 'reflective vest' not too far from Vanessa's town? What's is that exactly? Is it the same kind of thing a utility worker would wear, or a runner, or something else?

 

[rosesfromangels]

Find, thanks for alerting me to the thread. I have just skimmed through this quickly, and first impression is "neighbor". A "watcher". Someone this pretty girl rebuffed, in the Perp's mind.
Did she grow up in this area? I know it was her parents house, but wasn't sure if she grew up there.
I'd say you won't have to look far to find the Perp.
I think he has been close by "watching", for a long time.

 

[FindHG]

Find, thanks for alerting me to the thread. I have just skimmed through this quickly, and first impression is "neighbor". A "watcher". Someone this pretty girl rebuffed, in the Perp's mind.
Did she grow up in this area? I know it was her parents house, but wasn't sure if she grew up there.
I'd say you won't have to look far to find the Perp.
I think he has been close by "watching", for a long time.

Thank you, Roses, for taking the time. I agree, especially about the long time watching, thus knowing how to get away unseen. I don't know why, but something about the way Vanessa was left, the timing, feels like the perp made mistakes that day.

<modsnip>

 

[Rocky1]

There was a report of a woman jogging in a park being raped by a man in a 'reflective vest' not too far from Vanessa's town? What's is that exactly? Is it the same kind of thing a utility worker would wear, or a runner, or something else?

I think you may be talking about this guy .http://www.westernmassnews.com/story/29499213/porto-potty-worker-set-to-face-judge-in-avon-rape-case

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2015/07/chicopee_charged_in_avon_conn.html

Yes the vest is the type you are describing.
Avon CT, would be about an hours drive from Princeton Ma.
I don't know the end result of this story, but I think he is/was being held without bail.

 

[carbuff]

I think you may be talking about this guy .http://www.westernmassnews.com/story/29499213/porto-potty-worker-set-to-face-judge-in-avon-rape-case

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2015/07/chicopee_charged_in_avon_conn.html

Yes the vest is the type you are describing.
Avon CT, would be about an hours drive from Princeton Ma.
I don't know the end result of this story, but I think he is/was being held without bail.

More like an hour and a half. Avon is on the other side of Hartford from Princeton.


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[zoso]

Did they ever find her phone? I noticed there is an electric light dept, Gov facility right next to the Mountain barn on rte 31. If the perp was using a gov truck, cops would not consider it an oddity for it to be parked roadside, and likewise neither would VM. Also it would be a relatively short run back to Electric Light Dept. through the woods if a vehicle was not used on Brooks Station. I'm not implicating an employee directly, just thinking out loud. The gov facility may have a camera too...

Also a utilities worker would have access to a blow torch...possibly. The above story about the port potty guy in the reflective vest made me think of it.

 

[FindHG]

Did they ever find her phone? I noticed there is an electric light dept, Gov facility right next to the Mountain barn on rte 31. If the perp was using a gov truck, cops would not consider it an oddity for it to be parked roadside, and likewise neither would VM. Also it would be a relatively short run back to Electric Light Dept. through the woods if a vehicle was not used on Brooks Station. I'm not implicating an employee directly, just thinking out loud. The gov facility may have a camera too...

Also a utilities worker would have access to a blow torch...possibly. The above story about the port potty guy in the reflective vest made me think of it.

Wow, Zozo! You're right that seems possible! I wonder what scents dogs may have picked up?

I think you may be talking about this guy .http://www.westernmassnews.com/story/29499213/porto-potty-worker-set-to-face-judge-in-avon-rape-case

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2015/07/chicopee_charged_in_avon_conn.html

Yes the vest is the type you are describing.
Avon CT, would be about an hours drive from Princeton Ma.
I don't know the end result of this story, but I think he is/was being held without bail.

Thank you so much, Rock1 and Carbuff. Good to know.

More like an hour and a half. Avon is on the other side of Hartford from Princeton.


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[Rocky1]

Did they ever find her phone? I noticed there is an electric light dept, Gov facility right next to the Mountain barn on rte 31. If the perp was using a gov truck, cops would not consider it an oddity for it to be parked roadside, and likewise neither would VM. Also it would be a relatively short run back to Electric Light Dept. through the woods if a vehicle was not used on Brooks Station. I'm not implicating an employee directly, just thinking out loud. The gov facility may have a camera too...

Also a utilities worker would have access to a blow torch...possibly. The above story about the port potty guy in the reflective vest made me think of it.

As far as I know, the police haven't released any information about her phone, or her clothes.
Yes that is the Princeton Municipal Light Co that you see. Remember, this happened on a Sunday, so unless there is an emergency, the light department wouldn't be working.
True it is a short distance to the light co through the woods, but I would think the dogs would have tracked in that direction. The same with anyone living in the area. I would think the scent tracking would have lead the police to the house through the woods, if he had taken that route.

 

[rosesfromangels]

The

As far as I know, the police haven't released any information about her phone, or her clothes.
Yes that is the Princeton Municipal Light Co that you see. Remember, this happened on a Sunday, so unless there is an emergency, the light department wouldn't be working.
True it is a short distance to the light co through the woods, but I would think the dogs would have tracked in that direction. The same with anyone living in the area. I would think the scent tracking would have lead the police to the house through the woods, if he had taken that route.

Someone mentioned the body near water? If the Perp washed off in water, it might throw a scent off?

 

[ThinkHard]

Thank you, Roses, for taking the time. I agree, especially about the long time watching, thus knowing how to get away unseen. I don't know why, but something about the way Vanessa was left, the timing, feels like the perp made mistakes that day.

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There are plenty of dentists around Princeton. Most of the affluent people in Princeton, and the wachusett area in general are doctors, dentists, or work in technology. Worcester has many hospitals.

 

[Rocky1]

The

Someone mentioned the body near water? If the Perp washed off in water, it might throw a scent off?

There is a small pond across the road in the woods, with a small brook running to the pond.
I know many people think that water will throw scent tracking off but that is a myth. Dogs track dead skin cells. Your body produces about 50 million every minute, so think of it as a mild snow shower. When you wash in a pond, the dripping water from your body will actually increase the scent because there are more cells . The only exception would be is if you jump in a deep fast moving river, and let it carry you downstream for a long distance.

 

[ThinkHard]

As far as I know, the police haven't released any information about her phone, or her clothes.
Yes that is the Princeton Municipal Light Co that you see. Remember, this happened on a Sunday, so unless there is an emergency, the light department wouldn't be working.
True it is a short distance to the light co through the woods, but I would think the dogs would have tracked in that direction. The same with anyone living in the area. I would think the scent tracking would have lead the police to the house through the woods, if he had taken that route.

It depends if they were scent dogs or cadaver dogs. Also tracking dogs are thought to track a specific persons scent and focus on that...i.e. Smell clothing of theirs.

LE wouldn't know who the perp was, so therefor wouldn't have a scent to give the dogs to track in the first place.

 

[ThinkHard]

The

Someone mentioned the body near water? If the Perp washed off in water, it might throw a scent off?

It seems to me if the perp was focused on using the water to clean up, that you would have dragged her down the path that leads to the water in the first place rather then having to cross the street afterwords and risk being seen. Or even risk staying in the area for longer.

 

[Rocky1]

It depends if they were scent dogs or cadaver dogs. Also tracking dogs are thought to track a specific persons scent and focus on that...i.e. Smell clothing of theirs.

LE wouldn't know who the perp was, so therefor wouldn't have a scent to give the dogs to track in the first place.

I disagree. LE uses scent tracking dogs all the time when criminals flee into woods etc. They don't have any clothing to smell.

 

[Rocky1]

It seems to me if the perp was focused on using the water to clean up, that you would have dragged her down the path that leads to the water in the first place rather then having to cross the street afterwords and risk being seen. Or even risk staying in the area for longer.

Just my opinion, and I have nothing to base this on, but I don't think water played any role in this crime. I think this guy made a fast exit, and didn't hang around the area for long.

 

[ThinkHard]

I disagree. LE uses scent tracking dogs all the time when criminals flee into woods etc. They don't have any clothing to smell.

How would a dog have any clue which scent to track without a specific scent bring given to it follow? It would seem to me in those cases that LE would still have to give the dogs scent to track via something the perp would knowingly come into contact with.

 

[FindHG]

There is a small pond across the road in the woods, with a small brook running to the pond.
I know many people think that water will throw scent tracking off but that is a myth. Dogs track dead skin cells. Your body produces about 50 million every minute, so think of it as a mild snow shower. When you wash in a pond, the dripping water from your body will actually increase the scent because there are more cells . The only exception would be is if you jump in a deep fast moving river, and let it carry you downstream for a long distance.

Great to know! Thank you, Rocky1. If the myth of being able to wash off scent hasn't been busted for this freak, perhaps just being able to clean himself off, or even some unaware sense of controlling all aspects of the environment and options for escape, could have been at play?

Roses, so relieved you're helping, lost without you on any thread.

 

[zoso]

All very good points. My guess is the scent trail did indeed go from Brooks Station down the cart path concerning VM. If the scent trail concerning the perp continued through the woods to rte 31, I would not be surprised if LE know this, don't know due to how the dogs were prepped for the search, or they stopped the search upon the discovery of VM (would this be protocol?). The distance from the Brooks Station to rte 31 is about 3000ft? Does that sound right? I think investigating all the goings on that Sunday in the Mountain Barn/Light Co area might payoff and generate some leads. A google street view exploration of that area is interesting.

 

[ThinkHard]

All very good points. My guess is the scent trail did indeed go from Brooks Station down the cart path concerning VM. If the scent trail concerning the perp continued through the woods to rte 31, I would not be surprised if LE know this, don't know due to how the dogs were prepped for the search, or they stopped the search upon the discovery of VM (would this be protocol?). The distance from the Brooks Station to rte 31 is about 3000ft? Does that sound right? I think investigating all the goings on that Sunday in the Mountain Barn/Light Co area might payoff and generate some leads. A google street view exploration of that area is interesting.

It's more like 1.5 milesgr where she was found to mountain barn through the woods, then it is .5miles