MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #3

[ThinkHard]

I log onto WS every day to see any updates on this case. This one has affected me deeply because I grew up in the area (my mom was actually driving to a funeral at the time of the crime and saw nothing - she said roads were eerily quiet- she did call in to the police tip line to report what she saw which was basically nothing). I'm very concerned that the case may be going cold. There is no new news. I am praying that this case will be solved. A few observations / thoughts that i'd love your thoughts on:
+ have we ever heard from police that they actually got the perp's dna? I know we heard that the cops took dna from suspects and we heard that they had not been able to make a match with the New York jogger killing. But did they ever say they had Dna? Now I'm worried they may not have gotten any and were taking samples to bluff or in the hopes they would eventually find some (either with further testing, more advanced techniques, new evidence that might materialize)
+ cops said they believe VM fought with her attacker. Any ideas on why they think that? I'm wondering if there were signs of struggle in the woods? If she was burned badly, how would they have known? Could they be assuming the burning was to conceal Dna even if it did cover it up? Curious to hear theories here
+ if the burning were done to cover up her identity, what about her dental records? They could have easily proven identity.
+ the police have stated they believe the perp used a car. I was assuming maybe they found tire marks. What other things could possibly point to their being a car involved? I guess the theory that a scent disappeared but to me that doesn't immediately speak to car - could have been a bike, etc. thoughts?
I appreciate everyone taking the time to post. I enjoy the discussion and have learned a lot. I've been lurking a while and wanted to contribute something.
All JMO

Well they were taking DNA samples from people and announcing the perp had scratches....so my guess is the only way they knew he had been scratched is because his skin cells where under her nails. So my guess is yes they have his DNA.

However if the had perps DNA under her nails or on her body, all they can prove is that said perp had made contact with her, in order to arrest him, they would also have to prove his DNA was at the crime scene.

It's possible they can prove contact, but not murder at this point. And it's possible we will hear nothing until an official arrest has been made. I have local LE friends, town council friends and multiple friend who are Worcester ADA's and all know nothing....not even "there are things we can't tell you" bothing, but as in, they know nothing.

Only the absolute closet people to this investigation know where it is at, and they aren't talking. I can only hope silence is about protecting the integrity of the investigation, rather then for lack of progress.

 

[ThinkHard]

I log onto WS every day to see any updates on this case. This one has affected me deeply because I grew up in the area (my mom was actually driving to a funeral at the time of the crime and saw nothing - she said roads were eerily quiet- she did call in to the police tip line to report what she saw which was basically nothing). I'm very concerned that the case may be going cold. There is no new news. I am praying that this case will be solved. A few observations / thoughts that i'd love your thoughts on:
+ have we ever heard from police that they actually got the perp's dna? I know we heard that the cops took dna from suspects and we heard that they had not been able to make a match with the New York jogger killing. But did they ever say they had Dna? Now I'm worried they may not have gotten any and were taking samples to bluff or in the hopes they would eventually find some (either with further testing, more advanced techniques, new evidence that might materialize)
+ cops said they believe VM fought with her attacker. Any ideas on why they think that? I'm wondering if there were signs of struggle in the woods? If she was burned badly, how would they have known? Could they be assuming the burning was to conceal Dna even if it did cover it up? Curious to hear theories here
+ if the burning were done to cover up her identity, what about her dental records? They could have easily proven identity.
+ the police have stated they believe the perp used a car. I was assuming maybe they found tire marks. What other things could possibly point to their being a car involved? I guess the theory that a scent disappeared but to me that doesn't immediately speak to car - could have been a bike, etc. thoughts?
I appreciate everyone taking the time to post. I enjoy the discussion and have learned a lot. I've been lurking a while and wanted to contribute something.
All JMO

Also...bike wouldn't cover scent as you still leave skin cells.

And jmo but I doubt burning was to cover identity...the only way that remotely possible is if the perp was incredibly naive, or if they really did follow her from NYC and knew zero about the area.

No one goes missing here, least of all 20 something year old females on a Sunday jog. Bodies don't just turn up in the woods here either, especially not those of a 20 something white women's.

If the perp was from around here, and thought burning would mask her identity....he would be extremely extremely stupid!

To me it feels more personal, more like remorse...as if he couldn't stand to look at her, or identify anything about her after she was dead.

 

[zoso]

As an alternative scenario too many, if the guy was a drifter/ hiker/local on foot he could follow that stone wall all the way from central Princeton to almost the very spot she was found...if he was a camping drifter, he may have had Sterno on him as well. The wall starts south of that big intersection in town at a residence and continues all the way to Brooks Rd. If she went down the path and he happened to be following the wall. Their vectors meet...

I used to find traces of people walking through my property boundary all the time. Even found a milk jug full of Kerosene once. Granted this was suburbia west of Baltimore and not bucolic Mass. I just found it odd that that wall runs for so long and intersects the crime scene, but it is a stretch for sure...but I also said "local". As for a car parked at Mnt brn on a Sunday...I think the fact this crime happened on a Sunday is HUGE. I think that is clue in and of itself. Also my gut says the vehicle was parked at the PMLD, but my gut doesn't know what proof is.

 

[Rocky1]

Just starting to really dig in to this thread, and it's moving fast.
Apologies if this has already been discussed thoroughly. What on earth is up with the sock dude? Either he is our man, or he has the horrid misfortune of appearing to be. Has he been eliminated? And he skipped work the day of, and the day after the murder? Does this guy just have the worst timing in the world, or....? Does he not own a pair of shoes, or is he just an offbeat character? Bizarre.

Sock dude is a guy that lives in the area. He was home all day alone on Sunday "resting." He missed work on Monday. He works for his brother, and when he didn't show up for work, his brother called the police. NECN interviewed him, and they said they didn't want to name him. I think they knocked on his door, and he came out to talk to them in his socks, and they pointed the camera down. The police swabbed him for DNA, and that's the last I have heard. I haven't heard if he's been eliminated or not. No mention of cuts or bruises as the police mentioned the perp may have.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Also...bike wouldn't cover scent as you still leave skin cells.

And jmo but I doubt burning was to cover identity...the only way that remotely possible is if the perp was incredibly naive, or if they really did follow her from NYC and knew zero about the area.

No one goes missing here, least of all 20 something year old females on a Sunday jog. Bodies don't just turn up in the woods here either, especially not those of a 20 something white women's.

If the perp was from around here, and thought burning would mask her identity....he would be extremely extremely stupid!

To me it feels more personal, more like remorse...as if he couldn't stand to look at her, or identify anything about her after she was dead.

If he is a pyro, then according to pyro profiles, he is younger. Maybe college age. Bed wetter, perhaps history of abusing animals. I think the use of fire is his signature.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I used to find traces of people walking through my property boundary all the time. Even found a milk jug full of Kerosene once. Granted this was suburbia west of Baltimore and not bucolic Mass. I just found it odd that that wall runs for so long and intersects the crime scene, but it is a stretch for sure...but I also said "local". As for a car parked at Mnt brn on a Sunday...I think the fact this crime happened on a Sunday is HUGE. I think that is clue in and of itself. Also my gut says the vehicle was parked at the PMLD, but my gut doesn't know what proof is.

It happened on Sunday, because that was her routine. The Sunday jog before she left her Mom's to head back home. Someone knew her routine well.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Sock dude is a guy that lives in the area. He was home all day alone on Sunday "resting." He missed work on Monday. He works for his brother, and when he didn't show up for work, his brother called the police. NECN interviewed him, and they said they didn't want to name him. I think they knocked on his door, and he came out to talk to them in his socks, and they pointed the camera down. The police swabbed him for DNA, and that's the last I have heard. I haven't heard if he's been eliminated or not. No mention of cuts or bruises as the police mentioned the perp may have.

Woah...hinky meter alert! Why would his brother call the police? That seems a bit extreme for missing work.

 

[ThinkHard]

I'm not saying this is the case but just to throw this out there as well....one of the reasons why things might be so hush hush....is if they do have a POI but that POI is either a minor or from a family with some money behind them, they could have lawyered up awful quick, including measures to keep any names out of the media....at least until a definitive arrest.

When the dentist (likely) shoved his wife out the window from their third floor excersize room at 3am, you heard practically nothing about the case for almost 2 years. It took almost a year just to subpoena his phone records for that night.....

So I'm just saying....with money and connections you can keep a lot out of the press...

 

[Rocky1]

From where she was found it would have actually been shorter to go north then to go south to ball hill. From her moms house to mnt barn in either direction via the road is 3.2 or 3.1 miles....but from the point she was found (because it was a half mile from her moms continuing north would have been closer.

Also there is literally zero evidence he "set the woods on fire" all we know is have had burns to her face, hands, and feet. We have no idea the extent, the instrument used, or where the burning actually took place. But giving the minimal to potentially zero evidence of charing in the woods, I think it's safe to say at no point where the woods ever on fire.

Here's some evidence.
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2016/08/09/community-mourns-vanessa-marcotte-princeton/

Start around the 1.15 time stamp. Watch carefully and you'll see the burnt woods .

 

[Rocky1]

Sorry, I don't really follow what you are saying. My neighbors dogs are trained to track and I've learned a few things from him. One of his dogs is a cadaver dog the other two can track living people. He works with the LE in the New England states extensively. My other neighbor is a dentists and does forensic work in MA and RI.

For one I don't see how sound tracking would come into play I this case at all.

Two she was found on private property so how would they identify the perps scent off any scent there. Third, I think the dogs were brought in to find her, not to track the perp, as I'm sure the assumed he was long gone from the immediate area at that point.

Also it rained less then 48 hrs after she was found, which would erase any likely hood of there being tracking based on smell of foot prints. I actually aske my neighbor about that and he said that's a very rare way of finding someone and only works if you are right on their trail.

For one I don't see how sound tracking would come into play I this case at all.
It wouldn't have. I was explaining the different ways Dogs track.

Two she was found on private property so how would they identify the perps scent off any scent there. Third, I think the dogs were brought in to find her, not to track the perp, as I'm sure the assumed he was long gone from the immediate area at that point
They wouldn't have had to have the perps scent to start tracking. If the dog picked up on raft, or footprints, another type of odor they could have started the track there.
Yes,.the dogs were brought in to initially track her. I am sure he was long gone too.
Yes it did rain within 48 hours I don't think they would have waited at all. I would think they would have started tracking right away for that reason. If you notice, the second search they did days later, they didn't use dogs at all,
Have you ever watched the news when there is a chopper overhead tracking a stolen car, and the passenger jumps out and takes off? They will send a dog to sniff him/her out with nothing to give the dog as far as a scent goes to follow, and find the person hiding in bushes etc.
A beagle that tracks rabbits doesn't need a scent before hand to track any one rabbit, but gets the scent of a rabbit and off it goes because it knows it's a rabbit.

 

[Razz]

Woah...hinky meter alert! Why would his brother call the police? That seems a bit extreme for missing work.

Not sure, but maybe because Socks turned off his phone, his bro couldn't get a hold of him on Sunday or Monday and he became concerned?

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk

 

[Rocky1]

There are gaurd rails right where the cart path is. Not sure what footage your thinking of but I don't think it off that they would check along the roads on either side of the cart path along those gaurd rails. And yes there is room to pull a car over there even with the guard rails.

Also despite if he was pedaling fast it would not have thrown off the dogs (says my neighbor).

I don't really see a bike being part of this, in all honesty. The only way a bike rider wouldn't look weird in that road is if it were a young kid or a HS age looking boy. It's not a road that distance riders with their fancy helmets etc are going to be riding down.

I feel like bike rider siting and looking out of place is something that would have popped up in the police logs, but that's not what we see, instead we see lots of reports of light vehicles and pick up trucks specifically around the hours of 1 and 3....which leads me to believe that a vehicle was involved not a bike.

Also the "biker" would have to have had any supplies to burn her with on him. IMHO I just don't think it was someone on a bike.

There are gaurd rails right where the cart path is. Not sure what footage your thinking of but I don't think it off that they would check along the roads on either side of the cart path along those gaurd rails. And yes there is room to pull a car over there even with the guard rails

I don't think it's odd they would check along the guardrails either, but they seemed to be focused in that area on the second search.
I really can't see how a car would have room to park on the side of the road with those guard rails.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.437...4!1s5XqOecvkTM3CwZqJ1XykUQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Also despite if he was pedaling fast it would not have thrown off the dogs (says my neighbor).
Was that the same neighbor that said a dog would first need the scent of the perp, or the other neighbor?
Did he take into consideration cars driving by and blowing the rafts away? I agree just pedaling fast will not stop the scent, but it sure will make it hard to track.

I don't really see a bike being part of this, in all honesty. The only way a bike rider wouldn't look weird in that road is if it were a young kid or a HS age looking boy. It's not a road that distance riders with their fancy helmets etc are going to be riding down.
Ok, again, this is nothing ,more than a theory on my part. Just another angle to look at. There could very well be a car involved. I live in a similar neighborhood, and bikes go by my house often. I never look twice, but I do notice cars that are pulled off to the side of the road where there are no houses, or strangers walking.


I feel like bike rider siting and looking out of place is something that would have popped up in the police logs, but that's not what we see, instead we see lots of reports of light vehicles and pick up trucks specifically around the hours of 1 and 3....which leads me to believe that a vehicle was involved not a bike.
I have been reading those police logs too, and after the crime, I noticed a huge jump in people calling about suspicious vehicles .


Also the "biker" would have to have had any supplies to burn her with on him. IMHO I just don't think it was someone on a bike.
The only supplies one would need would be a book of matches, or a lighter.

 

[Rocky1]

Woah...hinky meter alert! Why would his brother call the police? That seems a bit extreme for missing work.

There was no reason given, that I know of as to why he called.
The thoughts that I had were either he was concerned that he was missing considering what had happened the day before, or he noticed something out of the ordinary.
I read here that he had his phone shut off that day too, and that now he isn't talking to police anymore, but I didn't see that on the news, or get it from the police. Not sure the source.

 

[Rocky1]

We're the burns to her *face* or her *head*?

Burns to the head, hands, and feet, according to news reports. Also sexually assaulted and found naked. Also new reports.
No details from police.

 

[FindHG]

It happened on Sunday, because that was her routine. The Sunday jog before she left her Mom's to head back home. Someone knew her routine well.

Yes, a watcher, Roses. And Vanessa was going back to NYC on a 4:30 bus. Her family started looking for her not too long after she didn't return from her jog. One of the first places they checked was the Barn because of the cell tower ping. Admittedly, it could have pinged from anywhere nearby.

If her phone had been turned off, to make finding her more difficult before the 2:45 ping, then perhaps that's when he turned it on again. She was said to jog for an hour and half, and that would've been fifteen minutes after, so maybe the creep knew when his safe zone in terms of timing was, exactly.

If he snatched her, car or not, and he's relatively local, and he has marks on him, which may have faded some, could he take part in some kind of personal combat sports type stuff locally? Could he have gotten tattoos recently to hide scars? Could he be a gym member in some place who hasn't shown up recently?

Roses, remember the last POI we saw in MSM with the footwear fail? Thank you so so much for reading through the thread.

Thank you, Rocky, TH, Zoso, Razz and lurking sleuthers for pitching in, and good to hear of people in the area concerned and active.

 

[madamx]

this actually is good.. or to find out if any dead cats or dead dogs have been found in the neighborhood or if any local outdoor cats or dogs have gone missing and disappearing in the past.. this is a good one to look into.. it would be interesting to find out from local animal rescue groups

Hate to say it, but I wonder if anyone came across any burnt animal remains in that same neighborhood over the years.

 

[FindHG]

Thank you, Rocky1. I had been hesitant to post it, or to look for it, again, but couldn't get that burned branch out of my head. The thinner branch that arcs into where the fire was lit, could that have been used to prop up a canopy of sorts.

The horrible thing this creep did, the location, the scene, it seems no accident it's there. This is a brutal, scheming, cagey freak, who gets off on the horror he's caused, it seems to me. Besides being a pyro, possibly, who has burned things down and not been prosecuted as mentioned upthread, could he have spent hours in the woods in the area just wondering about the perfect spot, more than a particular victim, at some point? Maybe he even shared his thoughts with a friend at some point, just thinking out loud or off the cuff, about the woods, about his wondering around there, about aggressive thoughts on female jogger or cyclists. Maybe he tried setting up other spots at some point, tested what he was going to do here?

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2016/08/09/community-mourns-vanessa-marcotte-princeton/

 

[ThinkHard]

Here's some evidence.
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2016/08/09/community-mourns-vanessa-marcotte-princeton/

Start around the 1.15 time stamp. Watch carefully and you'll see the burnt woods .

Yes I've seen that. Again that amount of charing doesn't point to a woods be "set on fire". It's been dry, we are on a level three water ban. If someone was trying to set the woods and cause a large fire, they likely would have accomplished it.

But it looks like a small controlled fire to me. Not like one the perp lit, it grew big, and he fled.

 

[ThinkHard]

For one I don't see how sound tracking would come into play I this case at all.
It wouldn't have. I was explaining the different ways Dogs track.

Two she was found on private property so how would they identify the perps scent off any scent there. Third, I think the dogs were brought in to find her, not to track the perp, as I'm sure the assumed he was long gone from the immediate area at that point
They wouldn't have had to have the perps scent to start tracking. If the dog picked up on raft, or footprints, another type of odor they could have started the track there.
Yes,.the dogs were brought in to initially track her. I am sure he was long gone too.
Yes it did rain within 48 hours I don't think they would have waited at all. I would think they would have started tracking right away for that reason. If you notice, the second search they did days later, they didn't use dogs at all,
Have you ever watched the news when there is a chopper overhead tracking a stolen car, and the passenger jumps out and takes off? They will send a dog to sniff him/her out with nothing to give the dog as far as a scent goes to follow, and find the person hiding in bushes etc.
A beagle that tracks rabbits doesn't need a scent before hand to track any one rabbit, but gets the scent of a rabbit and off it goes because it knows it's a rabbit.

If a criminal jumps out of a car, the dogs can obvious smell the vehicle to pick up the perps scent to track it. And hunting animal for sport is different then hunting people and hunting dogs will go after any rabbit smell not a specific rabbit smell.

Again since this is my neighbors line of work, im going to trust him regarding how and what they can track and what they can't. And he says in this case tracking the perp from that crime scene would have been very very difficult and highly unlikely.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I am still dwelling on why the brother of "socks dude" called the police when his brother didn't show for work. This is such a flag, IMO. Just really odd, and the timing....
Seems to me the brother knows something we don't?