MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #3

[ThinkHard]

We just don't know.
We could generate a few pages discussing what WE think are the reasons for frequent visits home and unless we have more information all we are entitled to are our opinions and comparisons to our own experiences - and that does not necessarily entitle us to the dismissal of other's opinions and experiences

We are all very different. Personally, I don't think there is a "typical" experience of 'young small town women takes on NYC' and the stereotype portrayed in movies and books can be crushingly different from what many girls experience. That city can be a 'make or break' moment in a person's life and I would be hard-pressed to try and describe a "typical" experience from stories of all people I know who have done their stint in the big apple.

In a city with over 6 million and people arriving from towns and cities all over the world, obviously there are going to be differing experiences. That said, not too many young people from this area end up in NYC, that in itself is definelty an acception. Most locals who seek a city experience end up outside Boston, most commonly Somerville. But rarely NYC.

Also most people recognize that one persons experience doesn't define the experience of all, but I'm pretty sure that goes without saying. I'm not sure where you are getting the idea that anyone is making suggestions based on watching movies? But the only experience I can personally speak of is what was typical of me and my friends and my coworkers when I moved from the same local area to NYC. And based on MY experience her leaving that frequently personally strikes me as odd.

 

[Tempura]

I do. We certainly don't have to agree with each other. But I do think it's weird, and atypical. I don't think you'll find MOST highly motivated young people who are trying to pave there own way fleeing 3 hours home biweekly. That speaks to someone who is still clingy and needy and uncomfortable in their new life, or who had something else going on and thus another reason to be back home.

But whether you are 27 and in NYC or 30 and in westchester traveling home that frequently isn't what most people do.

And I do think it's worth exploring, instead of just dismissing, because I do think it could be a piece of this puzzle.

It's frustrating how in cases like this people paint the victim to somehow being immune to being human. It's like all you want to see is that she was a good student, with a good family, a good job, and she loved to run....so therefor she must have no other layers to who she was. People are just more complicated then that. They have more layers, they don't show all their cards at one time or to all the people in their lives. I know plenty of VM's types and I also know how differently their parents impression of them is from some aspects of their life.

For example I know plenty of Ivy Leaguers who's parents would swear up and down they would never touch drugs, yet these same people sold drugs in college and are the biggest stoners I know. Yet there parents know nothing about this aspect of their life. In my experience access, money, and education knows how to bread people who play the right cards, at the right time, for the right people.

Just to be clear I'm not saying VM had this torrid secret life, I am not trying to vilify her, nor am I trying to take away from any of her wonderful qualities. I'm just trying to point out that people aren't always as simple as what meets the eye. They just aren't.

I guess my point in all of this is that it's unfair to assume we know her "type". Like you said, people are complex beings, and maybe she actually was "clingy" by your standards. I'm simply going off only the information we have, and leaving speculation out of it.

 

[eucalyptuz]

I do. We certainly don't have to agree with each other. But I do think it's weird, and atypical. I don't think you'll find MOST highly motivated young people who are trying to pave there own way fleeing 3 hours home biweekly. That speaks to someone who is still clingy and needy and uncomfortable in their new life, or who had something else going on and thus another reason to be back home.
...sbm

Perhaps without meaning to, you are totally judging and maligning all the people on this forum who frequently travel some distance to visit relatives which is unfair.
If you know more about her state of happiness in the city, her living arrangements, her parents' health, the existence of a local paramour etc please state it here because the constant reassertion of your opinion without fact is not really advancing the cause.

 

[ThinkHard]

I guess my point in all of this is that it's unfair to assume we know her "type". Like you said, people are complex beings, and maybe she actually was "clingy" by your standards. I'm simply going off only the information we have, and leaving speculation out of it.

Is it not speculation to assume that her family would have been the sole motivating factor? Isn't it also speculation to assume that crohns would have been her reason for coming home?

Since we ant confirm either, then to me that is specualtion. So how can you say your leaving specualtion out of it, when it's your own speculation that has led you to those two things?

Also specualtion is part of putting a puzzle together when you don't have all the pieces....as we find ourselves here.

 

[ThinkHard]

Perhaps without meaning to, you are totally judging and maligning all the people on this forum who frequently travel some distance to visit relatives which is unfair.
If you know more about her state of happiness in the city, her living arrangements, her parents' health, the existence of a local paramour etc please state it here because the constant reassertion of your opinion without fact is not really advancing the cause.

And perhaps without meaning to, you are telling me to be open to all various peoples opinions and possibilities because they all have value, while you simultaneously shut down my opinion. Personal attacks on others also derails the conversation and certainly doesn't help to move the discussion forward either.

 

[Inthedetails]

Her fb account has always been set to private. Her Instagram was a mix of friends and family, mostly friends.

Her dad said she had no involvement romantically. But when Early was asked if this was true he fumbled and then said he wasn't going to get into her personal life. Which makes me think the answer isn't a straight forward yes or no, but that whatever potentional communication with others she might have had romantically was more complicated.

Girls don't usually tell their parents about boys they are hooking up with until after the relationship becomes official for the simple fact is they don't want to play 20 questions with their parents when they are still trying to figure out how serious the relationship is.

For the first 4 months of one relationship I told my parents I was sleeping at my best friends house every time I was actually with him. When I was ready to introduce him to my parents was the first time they had even heard of him.

If a fling doesn't work out, it can still sting, so you tend to not make a big deal about it until you know it's gonna last or they really are "that into you" because no one likes being dumped and no one likes having to share that news with everyone. Least of all your parents, because you feel like a disappointment (especially as an only child).

So I don't think we can just throw out the idea that there couldn't possibly be a guy in her life, just because her father was unaware of one, or because LE hasn't said one way or the other.

BBM

Perhaps the father stumbled in his answer about her romantic life because he was thinking about her medical condition and the personal (and unpleasant) effects of Crohn's disease. He had just lost his daughter to violence, and talking about delicate conditions of his child to the public might have easily caused him to stumble in his speech.

Usually I have a theory of what happened on cases I follow. For this particular case, I really don't have a theory yet....but just some vibes that ring true to me. I've never picked up the vibe from Vanessa that she was secretly meeting a man when she told her mom she was going out for a run that afternoon. Nothing I've learned so far has changed my mind.

jmopinion at the moment with what we know now.



jmo

 

[eucalyptuz]

And perhaps without meaning to, you are telling me to be open to all various peoples opinions and possibilities because they all have value, while you simultaneously shut down my opinion. That seems highly hypocritical on your part.

Everyone is entitled to give their opinion on this case and use whatever experience they have to form their opinion. This site is also about hatching out those ideas in terms of likelihood. And when you speak about possibilities sometimes you disagree, I don't think the point of this is that we all think the same things at the same time, as that would be pretty pointless.

Oh, boy.
I have not shut down your stating of your opinion. I am questioning the usefulness of you dismissing everyone else's opinion ad infinitum and in a way that calls in to question the very validity of their opinion and doing so in a boorish, tactless way.
I am flagging my own comment because perhaps I am crossing a line here, but this forum is almost unreadable and hard to participate in because of the above-stated issues.

 

[ThinkHard]

BBM

Perhaps the father stumbled in his answer about her romantic life because he was thinking about her medical condition and the personal (and unpleasant) effects of Crohn's disease. He had just lost his daughter to violence, and talking about delicate conditions of his child to the public might have easily caused him to stumble in his speech.

Usually I have a theory of what happened on cases I follow. For this particular case, I really don't have a theory yet....but just some vibes that ring true to me. I've never picked up the vibe from Vanessa that she was secretly meeting a man when she told her mom she was going out for a run that afternoon. Nothing I've learned so far has changed my mind.

jmopinion at the moment with what we know now.



jmo

No you misunderstood. The father did not stumble, the father had a very straight answer that she was so focused on her career she didn't have time for a love life. It was Early the DA who stumbled over the question when he was asked about whether she was seeing anyone. Early is th Worcester DA. He was specifically asked about her dating life....so I don't think he would have stumbled thinking about crohns and saying he didn't want to get into it when he was asked specifically if she had been seeing anyone.


Also just as a random side note, my "instinct" (whatever that's worth) knowing this happened in a place I'm so familiar with was that she had to have known them and it felt like he must have intentionally meant her, just because the location seemed so random, and thinking of what I would and wouldn't do, it was the angle that just made the most sense to me. Certainly that doesn't make it true...and is clearly jmo.

Actually it's not completely true that scenario was my first instinct. On Monday morning when it came out it was a death investigation....my first thought was that a wild animal got her. (No joke!) before this people were way more afraid of coming across a bear or a bobcat then a murderer when out walking these roads.

 

[Tempura]

Is it not speculation to assume that her family would have been the sole motivating factor? Isn't it also speculation to assume that crohns would have been her reason for coming home?

Since we ant confirm either, then to me that is specualtion. So how can you say your leaving specualtion out of it, when it's your own speculation that has led you to those two things?

Also specualtion is part of putting a puzzle together when you don't have all the pieces....as we find ourselves here.

What I mean by fact vs speculation is that we know she was close to her family and we know she had Crohn's. We don't even know she had romantic interest in men, so that theory doesn't have fact backing it up. I'm not saying that speculation is wrong, especially for this forum, but I was simply explaining what I was basing my theory off of.

 

[Tempura]

No you misunderstood. The father did not stumble, the father had a very straight answer that she was so focused on her career she didn't have time for a love life. It was Early the DA who stumbled over the question when he was asked about whether she was seeing anyone. Early is th Worcester DA. He was specifically asked about her dating life....so I don't think he would have stumbled thinking about crohns and saying he didn't want to get into it when he was asked specifically if she had been seeing anyone.

Do you have a link for the DA's statement? I only remember her father's.

 

[Danyel]

Oh, boy.
I have not shut down your stating of your opinion. I am questioning the usefulness of you dismissing everyone else's opinion ad infinitum and in a way that calls in to question the very validity of their opinion and doing so in a boorish, tactless way.
I am flagging my own comment because perhaps I am crossing a line here, but this forum is almost unreadable and hard to participate in because of the above-stated issues.

I didn't know if I was being sensitive or in the minority but I completely agree. It is why I rarely participate even though I have local ties and have friends who grew up with VM.

 

[ThinkHard]

Do you have a link for the DA's statement? I only remember her father's.

It's on video but I don't know where it would be. It's from the preset they did when they announced to look for a man with scratches. There are clips of this, but there is a video that shows the full press conference with Q&A after his speech and it's during the Q&A in which a female reporter asks him about it.

 

[Inthedetails]

No you misunderstood. The father did not stumble, the father had a very straight answer that she was so focused on her career she didn't have time for a love life. It was Early the DA who stumbled over the question when he was asked about whether she was seeing anyone. Early is th Worcester DA. He was specifically asked about her dating life....so I don't think he would have stumbled thinking about crohns and saying he didn't want to get into it when he was asked specifically if she had been seeing anyone.

Yes I misunderstood that the reference was to Early. But if Early was aware of the victim's Crohns, I still think that would cause him to stumble or fumble in his words. It causes ME to stumble here on the thread because the condition involves things that are very personal, uncomfortable, and what people don't normally discuss about others in public. There was no reason for Early to discuss that information at that time, and in fact, I'm not sure LE has released it at all. (I could have missed it.) We know about her medical condition because of the memorials for Vanessa.

But the bottomline, in regards to the case, is that in my opinion Vanessa went for a run that Sunday afternoon when she told her mom she went for a run. In my opinion, she did not lie to her mother that day about secretly meeting anyone. Nothing I've so far learned about the case causes me to see Vanessa as hiding a lover or friend.

jmopinion

 

[Tempura]

I didn't know if I was being sensitive or in the minority but I completely agree. It is why I rarely participate even though I have local ties and have friends who grew up with VM.

I've taken breaks from this forum as well. I'm local and think about this case constantly, but I mostly lurk and just every now and then chime in.

 

[carbuff]

I've noticed that my kids (youngest is 27) seem to be significantly closer to their families than Mr. Carbuff and I ever were to ours. We see eldest a couple of times a month despite a two-hour drive, and youngest would be here frequently if he had the money to fly that often. A five-hour trip would be nothing for him.

So I have no trouble believing she came that frequently solely to enjoy her family's company. I would also have no trouble believing she was seeing somebody her parents didn't know about (new relationship, only about sex, somebody she thought they'd disapprove of, wrong sex/race/profession/nationality/religion/etc/etc/etc)

P. S. We didn't know about any of middle son's relationships until he met the woman he wanted to marry. I didn't find that particularly unusual.)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ThinkHard]

Here is the video. It's at the end.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dfgfp0taR7w

 

[ThinkHard]

Yes I misunderstood that the reference was to Early. But if Early was aware of the victim's Crohns, I still think that would cause him to stumble or fumble in his words. It causes ME to stumble here on the thread because the condition involves things that are very personal, uncomfortable, and what people don't normally discuss about others in public. There was no reason for Early to discuss that information at that time, and in fact, I'm not sure LE has released it at all. (I could have missed it.) We know about her medical condition because of the memorials for Vanessa.

But the bottomline, in regards to the case, is that in my opinion Vanessa went for a run that Sunday afternoon when she told her mom she went for a run. In my opinion, she did not lie to her mother that day about secretly meeting anyone. Nothing I've so far learned about the case causes me to see Vanessa as hiding a lover or friend.

jmopinion

I guess I don't see why a question about her dating life would prompt Early to think of her Crohn's disease. But I think we just have a different way of viewing this. Because I also don't think ommitting seemingly harmless info from her mom seems that far fetch or like a major breach of trust either.

Who knows how it was for VM though, as there are obviously many different ways to view the same thing.

 

[Tempura]

I guess I don't see why a question about her dating life would prompt Early to think of her Crohn's disease. But I think we just have a different way of viewing this. Because I also don't think ommitting seemingly harmless info from her mom seems that far fetch or like a major breach of trust either.

Who knows how it was for VM though, as there are obviously many different ways to view the same thing.

The only reason I'm doubting that theory is because it goes against the facts we do know - she was very close to her family. If there was more evidence suggesting otherwise, I'd believe it possible.

As far as Crohn's affecting romantic relationships, I've known 3 adults afflicted with it and I know it's a big reason for one (31yo) remaining single, it factored into the divorce of another, and for the last, his spouse has been extremely supportive but it's affected their marriage and life together drastically (delayed plans for future)

 

[Tempura]

Here is the video. It's at the end.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dfgfp0taR7w

Thanks for posting. My take on his response is that it WAS an incredibly personal question and perhaps they hadn't "confirmed" she didn't have any romantic relationship. It'd be difficult to confirm there was NOT a relationship going on, you know? Easier to confirm there was a relationship if she was in fact seeing someone. I also could see him not wanting to respond because there would be implications that her father was wrong/lied/didn't know her as well as he thought he did, so it wouldn't be respectful to her family to respond to the question considering how it was phrased.

 

[1306kayaker]

I just drove down Brooks Station Rd yesterday and noticed quite a few lots for sale and some already cleared out. I think they were fairly close to VM's aunt and uncle's house. I'm not on that road often enough to know how long crews may have been clearing the land - do any locals know when that work started? Just trying to hypothize on a reason for someone to be in the area on Sunday, familiar with the cart path, and with a vehicle.