MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #3

[Tempura]

I just drove down Brooks Station Rd yesterday and noticed quite a few lots for sale and some already cleared out. I think they were fairly close to VM's aunt and uncle's house. I'm not on that road often enough to know how long crews may have been clearing the land - do any locals know when that work started? Just trying to hypothize on a reason for someone to be in the area on Sunday, familiar with the cart path, and with a vehicle.

Wow, that's a good theory!

 

[1306kayaker]

Wow, that's a good theory!

I just did some research on this - it's actually one 50 acre lot for sale, located by the start of Connor Rd and the cart path but on the other side of the road. The land has been for sale for awhile but the clearing looks fairly recent. The street address is 6 brooks station Rd.

 

[Inthedetails]

The only reason I'm doubting that theory is because it goes against the facts we do know - she was very close to her family. If there was more evidence suggesting otherwise, I'd believe it possible.

As far as Crohn's affecting romantic relationships, I've known 3 adults afflicted with it and I know it's a big reason for one (31yo) remaining single, it factored into the divorce of another, and for the last, his spouse has been extremely supportive but it's affected their marriage and life together drastically (delayed plans for future)

At minimum, we're all learning more about Crohn's. Learning and compassion are always a good to increase.

And, yes, I've heard Crohn's can be difficult on one's personal life.

Thanks for sharing - it is helpful.

 

[Mskin]

For starters I grew up in this area. My parents home is only 4 miles from the crime scene, and I went to WRHS so I'm very very familiar with what this community is like as I've lived it. However Leominster kids don't really associate with WRHS regional kids barely at all. VM went to Bancroft which would have given her an in with more kids from the wachusett school district. (Holden, Paxton, Princeton, Rutland, Sterling). There are some neighboring towns that are very close knit and interimingled, and some neighboring towns to Princeton, that despite abutting Princeton aren't really part of that community and you don't see a lot of intermingled amongst the towns or their children, beyond maybe people from those towns using wachusett mountain. (Westminster, Leominster, hubbardston). The only reason maybe you'd intermingle with people from these other towns at the mountain is if you worked at the mountain with them (which was a common HS job).

Secondly as an only child myself, and again as one who grew up here, and spent 5 years myself living in NYC....I just can't really agree with your observations. Yes I'm very close to my parents, BUT the only reason I came home biweekly at any point during my time in NYC was to see a guy I was seeing back home. So personally despite being very close to my parents, I was also a strong independent women, living in an amazing city, with a killer job at a high profile fashion house, and trying to figure out who I was all on my own...leaving that environment every 2 weeks to visit my parents would have been more like stepping back then moving forward. (That said I still talked to my mom in the phone everyday).

I think either a guy, or I think the crohns issues are the two most likely reasons she came home frequently. Some on also mentioned it could be if she had issues with her roommates in the city....which also seems much more likely then just because she was an only child, that would be an unusual reason for someone her age to come home.

Had I had a roommate in NYC who was 27 and left biweekly just to visit family, that would have very much seemed like a strange thing for a 27 year old peer to do, at least without a good reason, like a parent having cancer. Let's put it this way, amongst a peer group in NYC, at that age, if one of us left that often, the rest of us definelty would have talked about how odd it was that they left so often and probably cracked jokes about them needing to "cut the cord". It definelty wouldn't be typical behavior. Again I say all of that from the perspective of in many ways walking in similar shoes as VM (i.e. Only child, grew up in the same area, also relocated to NYC for a job in my 20's).

I went to school in Boston. I live in ct. I hated the city and came home every chance i got. My parents were gone, i came back because it was base and recognizable. It grounded me. We are all different, with different needs. Who knows why she came back, or what her emotional needs were. Its too subjective.


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[Rocky1]

I know it has been assumed that VM was out for a jog that day, however, the DA did say in his first press conference that she went out for a walk, and not a jog.
Time stamp 1:20

[video=youtube;2D3fmpBEAfU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D3fmpBEAfU[/video]

 

[rosesfromangels]

Joggers never go for "walks". If she were out for a "walk", it does suggest a meet up to me.....

 

[rosesfromangels]

It's good to see the lively debate on this thread, and that people are willing to pressure test each other's hypotheses. Thank you everyone for the civilized and vigorous debate! This is what leads to great revelations and even break throughs!

 

[DatelineFan]

I agree with you that typically not all details are shared, but again I just find it unlikely that she'd make all of these frequent trips with that motivation, and not share any bit of info about a man with her parents. I don't find it typical for a woman her age to pretend to go on jogs to secretly meet with a man. I'd think at some point she'd be staying with the man instead if her intentions for coming home were being with him. Obviously just my opinion. We also don't know that she was even interested in men romantically.

ALL OF THIS!

As I said earlier in the thread, a dear friend of mine made the trek home from the city most weekends. I thought it sounded like a lot of work. I think it was, but it made her happy. She had plenty of friends, a corporate law career, and was single. She just liked her quiet time at home.

I also don't see a 27 year old pretending to go on a run to meet a romantic interest.

ETA, she's not clingy or needy, either. Just introverted.

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[Mskin]

I know it has been assumed that VM was out for a jog that day, however, the DA did say in his first press conference that she went out for a walk, and not a jog.
Time stamp 1:20

[video=youtube;2D3fmpBEAfU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D3fmpBEAfU[/video]

I have always thought this weird, inconsistent and confusing. Perhaps chalk it up to early chaos? I just never got this.

Agreed. Runners rarely go for walks.


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[Rocky1]

It actually makes a lot of sense to me. And I've seen similar things happen that way around her previously....so that isn't just a shot in the dark spot, that's saying as a local, and seeing first hand how things get handled in these cases, and it does change how much is made public when your parents have the money to keep things quiet.

OJ was a celebrity with a murdered wife and a very public police chase, no amount of money was covering that up, but that had more to do with his celebrity status then it did his money. So it's a bit like comparing apples to oranges when you relate it to this...wouldn't you say?

Being a "local" and how things may have been applied when Chief Powers found out Johnny Rotten stole Farmer Bobs Farmall tractor is a little different than this case. She may have thought that rather than rob money out of the annual chicken BBQ fund to pay town council to challlenge a high priced attorney for such a minor thing wasn't worth it. (this is an example only)
Unless you are referring to the Dentist that is being charged with manslaughter, there hasn't been a case of this magnitude in that town for 30+ years, and this is being handled by the state police/fbi who have an unlimited budget, and who could care less how much money someone has. Although Massachusetts doesn't prosecute "capitol murder," in the 31 states that do, this would be a death sentence case.
As far as OJ Simpson goes, he was in cuffs being questioned within 24 hours of his wifes murder, so I doubt the LAPD cared less about how much money he had either.
Once again, in this case, to me, having half of the town afraid, and wanting answers, outweighs LE being afraid to make a suspect known, just because someone has a few bucks. IMO, I don't think they have enough to go on yet to make an arrest,and/or a solid prosecution and that's the only reason anyone has not been named yet.

 

[Rocky1]

Joggers never go for "walks". If she were out for a "walk", it does suggest a meet up to me.....

What about joggers with Crohns?

 

[rosesfromangels]

What about joggers with Crohns?

I thought of that too, but I am a runner and I can tell you nothing stops us. We run when we are sick and when we shouldn't. It's just how it is.

 

[ThinkHard]

Being a "local" and how things may have been applied when Chief Powers found out Johnny Rotten stole Farmer Bobs Farmall tractor is a little different than this case. She may have thought that rather than rob money out of the annual chicken BBQ fund to pay town council to challlenge a high priced attorney for such a minor thing wasn't worth it. (this is an example only)
Unless you are referring to the Dentist that is being charged with manslaughter, there hasn't been a case of this magnitude in that town for 30+ years, and this is being handled by the state police/fbi who have an unlimited budget, and who could care less how much money someone has. Although Massachusetts doesn't prosecute "capitol murder," in the 31 states that do, this would be a death sentence case.
As far as OJ Simpson goes, he was in cuffs being questioned within 24 hours of his wifes murder, so I doubt the LAPD cared less about how much money he had either.
Once again, in this case, to me, having half of the town afraid, and wanting answers, outweighs LE being afraid to make a suspect known, just because someone has a few bucks. IMO, I don't think they have enough to go on yet to make an arrest,and/or a solid prosecution and that's the only reason anyone has not been named yet.

That's all your opinion and your entitled to it but it also doesn't make it true just because you believe it is.

also you are taking what I said in a direction different then I intended it. I'm not saying money makes the police afraid because of intimidation....I was saying that if they do not have enough on him to make an arrest, yet have been looking into him, his family may have lawyered up making it much harder for police to question him and if they are a good lawyer they are going to do everything they can to see their client gets off, they are not interested in the integrity of the investigation.

So if a lawyer can find reason to have evidence thrown out they will do so. Meaning as LE collects evidence and builds a case and tries to gain enough info for an arrest they have to be extremely carefully in order to make a conviction or even grounds for arrest stick.

If they had enough evidence I think they would certainly make an arrest. But I think it's possible they are on to someone, don't have enough to make an arrest, and the lawyers are keeping things silent to protect the family and the police are keeping silent to protect the investigation.

I'm not saying this IS what is currently happening, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was.

 

[femalejogger]

Joggers never go for "walks". If she were out for a "walk", it does suggest a meet up to me.....

I believe that early on (Thread 1?), someone who accessed her running app mentioned that she often walked the first part of her run. I can't remember the specific details of the post, but I seem to recall that she walked at least a mile. That may account for the walk vs run confusion.

 

[Michigan]

It seems like maybe her mother was single. What if her mother was lonely or ill? That would be a reason to visit so often. I personally think there is an extremely low chance she was having secret romantic encounters on her walk. JMO

 

[Tempura]

I believe that early on (Thread 1?), someone who accessed her running app mentioned that she often walked the first part of her run. I can't remember the specific details of the post, but I seem to recall that she walked at least a mile. That may account for the walk vs run confusion.

Just looked up her account again to analyze her runs. She did walk for parts of her runs pretty often.

 

[ThinkHard]

I'm not sure about others but I tend to think of this board as a place to not just share ideas but to try to narrow down those ideas to the most likely scenario. I don't ever think it's about who is right, but it's always about what is actually right.

We have limited knowledge of the specifics to work with, combined with our own individualized experiences and instincts to go on. So every persons experiences are important as is their perspective.

I also think all theories should be thoroughly explored, and by doing so with collective critical minds deduce it to the most likely common denominators.

It seems to me if we don't look at each theory with a critical eye, then all we are doing in her is gossiping about a crime, rather then actually trying to narrow down the truth.

I never think of analyzing theories as a personal attack, but rather the exploring of ideas.

I know I enjoy questioning of any theory I propose because it gives me a chance to analyze it in ways I wouldn't have considered.

Certainly many things people have shared here have made me alter what I think might be possible on this case. And I appreciate every single persons contribution.

However, if I ever say something that you find offensive, please tell me how you feel and ask me if that's how it was intended. I promise that 99% of the time i am not trying to be a d**k!

I'm usually just focused on the information and am being short and direct, failing to present it with a "pretty little bow".

My apologies to anyone I may have offended at any point.

In the future just (respectfully) bring it to my attention, preferably privately.

Please & Thank you.

Wishing everyone a happy and relaxing weekend.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Nicely said. Yep, we have to pressure test our assumptions. Deductions that have been sent to LE from many of these threads have significantly aided in the advancement, or closure of cases. Press on!

 

[slanda]

Now, I'm confused: ThinkHard, you have been writing "bi-weekly" in your posts, and if she was actually going home 2x/week, then, I would consider that "a lot" because I'm not even sure how that's possible if she was working a normal 8-5 work schedule (How could she find the time to go to MA in the middle of the week?)

However, if she went home bi-monthly, or 2x/month, I don't think that's unusual at all. It would seem as a good balance of time between the city and "home" ... And many companies now offer more flexible work schedules with alternating Friday's off, or half day work schedules. Maybe VM had an alternating Friday every other week where she had enough time to make the trek back to MA? It would make sense.

I'm an only child and am very close with both of my parents. I have never hid anything from them, either, even when I was younger. I typically tell them if I *just* met someone, no matter how insignificant that new person may turn out to be. I believe VM was also an only child, and we do tend to tell our parents more than the average kid... I think it's because most children have siblings to tell things to and to bond with, but, we don't, so our parents fill that role. (At least they do for me.)

I also wouldn't think it odd if she went home every weekend, or three times a month... some people are closer to their family than others... who knows? But, it doesn't strike me as atypical or odd in any way... Some people never go home, or just visit for special occasions, and that's not really atypical either; just their preference.

FWIW: My opinion, after reading all of the threads and links here (as I have been since the story of her death broke) and (don't laugh at me) after doing some forensic astrological analysis (learning same person who used to do that here at Websleuths) it looks to me as she was probably lured in some way off that path shortly after she began her route. Maybe she recognized him, but, I don't think it was someone she was actually friends with. I do think he was laying in wait for her and I think he might be younger than her. I do think he watched her, or stalked her and I do think he's relatively "local" -- I'm not sure... I just began trying to apply the whole forensic astrology thing to better understand what happened to her and KV because both of their cases are so brutal and sad.

I check for updates everyday hoping that they catch him and KV's killer. It just frightens me a little more everyday as time goes on that their killers will go free and or do it again. VM and KV deserve some justice after what happened to them and I hope it comes soon.

 

[rosesfromangels]

FWIW: My opinion, after reading all of the threads and links here (as I have been since the story of her death broke) and (don't laugh at me) after doing some forensic astrological analysis (learning same person who used to do that here at Websleuths) it looks to me as she was probably lured in some way off that path shortly after she began her route. Maybe she recognized him, but, I don't think it was someone she was actually friends with. I do think he was laying in wait for her and I think he might be younger than her. I do think he watched her, or stalked her and I do think he's relatively "local" -- I'm not sure... I just began trying to apply the whole forensic astrology thing to better understand what happened to her and KV because both of their cases are so brutal and sad.
.

Respectfully snipped.
You are stating my hypothesis almost verbatim. Agree...agree. My profile is of a young 19-ish year old who lives in the area, close by. Watches her with binoculars/telescope. Maybe even in to her bedroom window. Bedwetter beyond normal year of cessation. Maladjusted. Track record of harming animals, setting small fires. He lives at home, maybe just with a Mom. Parent is scared of him and suspects him in this crime. If dreams are worth anything he is medium build/heighth for a 19 year old with dirty blonde hair in a growing out shag with hazel eyes. Hows that for a precise dream! I hope it's ok to post that, it was just a dream afterall. I think this thread is getting to me....some of them do. : |

I think he was off the road and called for help....she went to help him, and we know the rest.