MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #4

[Kickoff61]

It appears this killer did a brutal murder as she fought...then by doubling up...meaning proceeding with attempts to try to cover it up by brutally burning parts of her body.

 

[FindHG]

It appears this killer did a brutal murder as she fought...then by doubling up...meaning proceeding with attempts to try to cover it up by brutally burning parts of her body.

That makes sense on the surface, Kickoff61, thank you. But, there's the fact that DNA was recovered, so the brutal murderer failed at his doubling down to cover it up, it seems. Do you suppose the murderer was too stupid or uninformed to know about how DNA evidence works or confident, knew his wasn't in the system and the burning was about something else? Inhumanely cruel, either way.

 

[rosesfromangels]

IMO, the burning was some warped ritual, vs hiding DNA.; purification perhaps.

 

[FindHG]

IMO, the burning was some warped ritual, vs hiding DNA.; purification perhaps.

Yes, agreed, Roses, it's what I keep coming back to, too. It's interesting, this idea of doubling up, made me think. Do you suppose it could have been two people involved somehow, and only one of their DNA markers was detected, thus the burning was effective to some extent?

 

[Kickoff61]

That makes sense on the surface, Kickoff61, thank you. But, there's the fact that DNA was recovered, so the brutal murderer failed at his doubling down to cover it up, it seems. Do you suppose the murderer was too stupid or uninformed to know about how DNA evidence works or confident, knew his wasn't in the system and the burning was about something else? Inhumanely cruel, either way.

I appears to me the person is confident as you mention, not in system . Possibly rushing due to unexpected level of her fighting and ran out of time. Possibly even planned to go back later not expecting the dog to find her so fast.

 

[ThinkHard]

I'm not sure what you mean Kickoff by confusion about where she was found. I've always known it to be in one location. Others have suggested it was elsewhere but most of us are in agreement as to where she was found. And there were even flowers there.

 

[ThinkHard]

Also I have a very very hard time believing anyone would think she wouldnt be found very very quickly.

For one she was found just off the route she was known to be on, she wasn't that far from the road, she was also on a path, and there was little attempt made to conceal her body.

At the very least the perp would have to know LE would be out looking for her in that area, and because of their search, their would be no way he'd be able to go back to the body.

 

[The Farm]

Also I have a very very hard time believing anyone would think she wouldnt be found very very quickly.

For one she was found just off the route she was known to be on, she wasn't that far from the road, she was also on a path, and there was little attempt made to conceal her body.

At the very least the perp would have to know LE would be out looking for her in that area, and because of their search, their would be no way he'd be able to go back to the body.

Whether this was an intentional or unintentional murder he got away from the scene as soon as possible. Vanessa was found so close really to where she started out on her run and her running route would have been searched extensively. There I think was very little time to get out of dodge which he did and I do not feel he had any plans on going back there. He was running and hiding all done quickly.

 

[FindHG]

I appears to me the person is confident as you mention, not in system . Possibly rushing due to unexpected level of her fighting and ran out of time. Possibly even planned to go back later not expecting the dog to find her so fast.

So, by this reasoning, Kickoff61, not that we'll ever know what the perp was really thinking, if the perp was confident that his DNA wasn't in the system, where would burning Vanessa fall, especially if he was surprised by her fighting and ran out of time?

Why do you suppose the perp may have planned to return?

Do you think he knew in advance the usual length of her run and that was the reason he ran out of time?

So, this violent, cruel, conniving, confident, torturer, rapist and murder may have been thinking about doing something like this for a long time, do you think? I mean the confidence, if it is the case, must have come from somewhere.

 

[Rainbowfashions1]

Another poster previously mentioned burning her to possibly destroy other evidence such as fibers on her body.

 

[Dollcat]

Did a dog alert the searchers to her body?

 

[Kickoff61]

So, by this reasoning, Kickoff61, not that we'll ever know what the perp was really thinking, if the perp was confident that his DNA wasn't in the system, where would burning Vanessa fall, especially if he was surprised by her fighting and ran out of time?

Why do you suppose the perp may have planned to return?

Do you think he knew in advance the usual length of her run and that was the reason he ran out of time?

So, this violent, cruel, conniving, confident, torturer, rapist and murder may have been thinking about doing something like this for a long time, do you think? I mean the confidence, if it is the case, must have come from somewhere.

Speculating , there could be various reasons running out of time. If local, he could have known her route, this was mid day, he may not have expected such a fight, he could have needed to be home because someone he knew was returning or arriving, someone may have come along nearby at the scene. Etc. All speculation.

Just because he 'may' not be in the system doesn't mean he doesn't have a history and not been caught yet. He could have still wanted to get rid of his DNA connection to the crime.

 

[Kickoff61]

So, by this reasoning, Kickoff61, not that we'll ever know what the perp was really thinking, if the perp was confident that his DNA wasn't in the system, where would burning Vanessa fall, especially if he was surprised by her fighting and ran out of time?

Why do you suppose the perp may have planned to return?

Do you think he knew in advance the usual length of her run and that was the reason he ran out of time?

So, this violent, cruel, conniving, confident, torturer, rapist and murder may have been thinking about doing something like this for a long time, do you think? I mean the confidence, if it is the case, must have come from somewhere.

IF he lived nearby, I speculate he could have easily planned to go back. I remember reading an FBI profiler speculating that he had to know he left his DNA behind.

 

[Kickoff61]

Did a dog alert the searchers to her body?

Yes it was reported the law enforcement dog found her.

 

[FindHG]

Speculating , there could be various reasons running out of time. If local, he could have known her route, this was mid day, he may not have expected such a fight, he could have needed to be home because someone he knew was returning or arriving, someone may have come along nearby at the scene. Etc. All speculation.

Just because he 'may' not be in the system doesn't mean he doesn't have a history and not been caught yet. He could have still wanted to get rid of his DNA connection to the crime.

I see what you mean, not to blow his cover with people who would have expected him to be somewhere else at the time, if I have it correctly. Thank you, Kickoff61, for thinking this through with me, there are so many possible tangents.

So he may have had to show face, you think, all beat up from his struggle with Vanessa, to not blow some cover story, yet have to explain his injuries. How do suppose he did that, if were running late for something?

It's hard to attribute injuries from a struggle to a fall convincingly, so it must have been somebody who he knew would want to believe him, yet he needed to prove himself apart from Vanessa's murder, seem innocent to this person. So maybe a father figure, a group of friends, an elder parent or relative, a wife, a sibling, maybe a suspicious landlady, the help, depending on what kind of life the freak has? Though most families don't have staff around on Sundays, unless there's some occasion. Maybe he needed just to answer or to make a call from somewhere else to have an alibi, and nobody even pays that much attention to him and his injuries went unnoticed. He could be self-employed or working from home, a minor employee in a cube off on his own.

You think he may have known then that he messed up with leaving DNA behind? Seems reasonable, but that would undermine the notion of his confidence, it would bespeak fear of getting caught.

If he's done this before without being caught, thus in the system, what you're saying is that he may have been afraid off, nervous or fretting about a match between the crimes?

 

[Kickoff61]

I see what you mean, not to blow his cover with people who would have expected him to be somewhere else at the time. Thank you, Kickoff61, for thinking this through with me.

So he may have had to show face, you think, all beat up from his struggle with Vanessa, to not blow some cover story, yet have to explain his injuries. How do suppose he did that, if were running late for something?

It's hard to attribute injuries from a struggle to a fall convincingly, so it must have been somebody who he knew would want to believe him, yet he needed to prove himself apart from Vanessa's murder, seem innocent to this person. So maybe a father figure, a group of friends, an elder parent or relative, maybe a suspicious landlady, the help, depending on what kind of life the freak has? Though most families don't have staff around on Sundays, unless there's some occasion. Maybe he needed just to answer to make a call from somewhere else to have an alibi, and nobody even pays that much attention to him.

You think he may have known then that he messed up with leaving DNA behind? Seems reasonable, but that would undermine the notion of his confidence, it would bespeak fear of getting caught.

If he's done this before without being caught, thus in the system, what you're saying is that he may have been afraid off, nervous or fretting about a match between the crimes?

You are welcome. There are many scenarios, many. As you just listed off. He could have needed his own clean up time too. They think he has some sort of wounds. We don't know where on the body to be covered either. I don't know if he knew or not that he left DNA behind. An FBI Profiler spoke out and speculated he did. Yes , he could be afraid of being matched to unsolved crimes or just worried they could connect him to doing this somehow and if DNA was left behind and they ask for his , it will match.

 

[FindHG]

You are welcome. There are many scenarios, many. As you just listed off. He could have needed his own clean up time too. They think he has some sort of wounds. We don't know where on the body to be covered either. I don't know if he knew or not that he left DNA behind. An FBI Profiler spoke out and speculated he did. Yes , he could be afraid of being matched to unsolved crimes or just worried they could connect him to doing this somehow and if DNA was left behind and they ask for his , it will match.

Thank you again, Kickoff61, again. You're great to ponder this with me.

So, some more speculating about needing his own clean up time due to unknown but significant wounds... He could've burned himself by mistake and not been able to stand the pain. A bad burn, I can see that curtailing his confidence. Angry, worried, high adrenaline, not thinking straight as he planned maybe, scared about how it may look, his injuries that is if he was to see people afterwards, took off to treat himself, clean up time, as you suggest, hoping to return to finish things off?

So, essentially you think he is afraid of falling under suspicion for some reason, even if his DNA isn't in the system, that other crimes could connect him and he feels within the scope of suspicion or being watched? If so, what do you think would be his reaction, like what would he want to do to throw off suspicion? Perhaps call in a bunch of false anon leads? What else?

 

[Kickoff61]

Thank you again, Kickoff61, again. You're great to ponder this with me.

So, some more speculating about needing his own clean up time due to unknown but significant wounds... He could've burned himself by mistake and not be able to stand the pain. A bad burn, I can see that curtailing his confidence. Angry, worried, high adrenaline, not thinking straight as he planned maybe, scared about how it may look, his injuries that is if he was to see people afterwards, took off to treat himself, clean up time, as you suggest, hoping to return to finish things off? I don't see him wanting to return to the crime scene, maybe to gawk at the reaction perhaps, from afar.

So, essentially you think he is afraid of falling under suspicion for some reason, even if his DNA isn't in the system, that other crimes could connect him and he feels within the scope of suspicion? If so, what do you think would be his reaction, like what would he want to do to throw off suspicion?

No problem. This just needs to be solved. That is a tough question. Many things I suppose. Depending on where wounds are, certainly covering them, I would think. and I don't know what items law enforcement found, but could destroy phone, etc....could even project this onto someone else trying to divert matters. And IF any history of things like this before never caught, may have ability to detach and appear to people he is fine, going about life. BUT clearly a danger and needs to be caught.

 

[FindHG]

No problem. This just needs to be solved. That is a tough question. Many things I suppose. Depending on where wounds are, certainly covering them, I would think. and I don't know what items law enforcement found, but could destroy phone, etc....could even project this onto someone else trying to divert matters. And IF any history of things like this before never caught, may have ability to detach and appear to people he is fine, going about life. BUT clearly a danger and needs to be caught.

Yes. That makes lots of sense. I don't see him wanting to return to the crime scene, maybe to gawk at the reaction perhaps, from afar. I think he ran off because he knew people were going to look for Vanessa, and having the crime so close to her family's home, part of the thrill was the reaction, seeing people search and he outsmarting everyone, possibly. Then afterwards it dawned on him, maybe when the profiler spoke of him, that he messed up, leaving too much evidence behind, or not being able to cover for his injuries. Maybe he's stuck with a set of circumstances he can no longer control. You have me convinced he may not be that confident, after all, just a pathetic dweeb who for some moments feels empowered, significant, like a man, when he makes others suffer. So this may be a person who feels unaccomplished, passed over, not taken into account, maybe rejected even, but so tini small, that he needed to do this and other things like it to feel good about himself.

 

[Kickoff61]

Yes. That makes lots of sense. I don't see him wanting to return to the crime scene, maybe to gawk at the reaction perhaps, from afar. I think he ran off because he knew people were going to look for Vanessa, and having the crime so close to her family's home, part of the thrill was the reaction, seeing people search and he outsmarting everyone, possibly. Then afterwards it dawned on him, maybe when the profiler spoke of him, that he messed up, leaving too much evidence behind, or not being able to cover for his injuries. Maybe he's stuck with a set of circumstances he can no longer control. You have me convinced he may not be that confident, after all, just a pathetic dweeb who for some moments feels empowered, significant, like a man, when he makes others suffer. So this may be a person who feels unaccomplished, passed over, not taken into account, maybe rejected even, but so tini small, that he needed to this and other things like it to feel good about himself.

I think it could go either way. Watching from close by or did have plans to go back to scene and lost the opportunity. If he is a local and not a hermit or someone who ran away, those close with him know something.