MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #4

[Kickoff61]

Excuse me, but I am confused why people are so certain this is a young person. Did I miss something? Can you explain why? If he is a younger individual, local, that seems much easier to solve. FBI do not get involved with state level homicides, unless other issues involved or Federal crime . In addition, it wasn't reported they got involved in the beginning for example (due to the NY case). It was later, when media coverage stopped. Prayers are with her family and the community.

 

[FindHG]

Find: I don't remember the profile on how killers dump their victims. However, I've created my own little science, as you know. (And of course mine is amateur, LE has the true science).
For the most part, I find them quite predictable depending on their profile, their deviancy. I find them especially predictable i they are the macho, possessive types that just "snapped". The Perps with various, more complex psychological disturbances are harder to predict, and have varying disposal methods depending on their sense of reality, and particular deviancy.

In this case, I believe the Perp falls in to the latter category. Again, this is just my amateurish deductive reasoning.
I think he had adjustment issues from a very young age. Probably some maternal lineage history of mental illness. I see him as a bedwetter, animal abuser, beat up younger siblings, if he had them. Lacks empathy. Secretive and ritualistic in many aspects of life. Has had minor brushes with trouble, but clever enough to avoid detection for the most part. Very few friends, if any, maybe one "stoodge".
Heavily in to video games, has history of fire setting. Lots of stories and rituals in his head, knows he needs help but his impulses are too strong. I don't think he ever viewed VM with admiration, this was pure fulfillment of his ritualistic impulses. However, I do think despite his lack of empathy, he does know he did wrong and wishes he wasn't the way he is.

I 100% believe his parent (I believe it's a single mother most likely) knows he did this horrific act, and is staying silent to avoid the disgrace the revelation will cause. Of course it would alter the course of that family's life forever. It already has. I believe his crime is known, and I pray those with knowledge will have the guts to step forward. Further, I believe that forensics will ultimately confirm what I believe LE already knows.

Lots of opinions and speculations from me today! And of course, as always, all amateur speculations. LE's got this. I know they do.

I'm going to print your post and pin it to my wall, Roses. Thank you for knowing and sharing.

Excuse me, but I am confused why people are so certain this is a young person. Did I miss something? Can you explain why? If he is a younger individual, local, that seems much easier to solve. FBI do not get involved with state level homicides, unless other issues involved or Federal crime . In addition, it wasn't reported they got involved in the beginning for example (due to the NY case). It was later, when media coverage stopped. Prayers are with her family and the community.

You're welcome. Kickoff61, I'm no expert, so will excuse myself from clearing your confusion. You haven't missed anything, I think. What information that we know of would indicate to you that he's older?

I'm not sure why it matters when a Federal authority became involved. It's usually good for a case to have more eyes.

I wonder if that recent article about Vanessa got under the perp's skin if he is a local? Or maybe even, it created some stress, if the crime is known as Roses, theorizes. What would those conversations be like, I wonder? I guess that could happen if he were young or old.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Excuse me, but I am confused why people are so certain this is a young person. Did I miss something? Can you explain why? If he is a younger individual, local, that seems much easier to solve. FBI do not get involved with state level homicides, unless other issues involved or Federal crime . In addition, it wasn't reported they got involved in the beginning for example (due to the NY case). It was later, when media coverage stopped. Prayers are with her family and the community.

The research on this topic is not definitive, but there are some good indicators that suggest a much higher percentage of Perp's who use fire are adolescent. The incidence of adult's who offend with fire is much smaller: http://www.minddisorders.com/Py-Z/Pyromania.html

Overall, fire is rarely used in murder; interesting statistics: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/05/07/poison-is-a-womans-weapon/

 

[Kickoff61]

The research on this topic is not definitive, but there are some good indicators that suggest a much higher percentage of Perp's who use fire are adolescent. The incidence of adult's who offend with fire is much smaller: http://www.minddisorders.com/Py-Z/Pyromania.html

Overall, fire is rarely used in murder; interesting statistics: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/05/07/poison-is-a-womans-weapon/

Thank you for the info.

 

[DeDee]

Greetings. :loveyou: Something I cannot reconcile is that Mister Socks was turned in to Police by his own brother. Mister Socks wants us to believe that his brother did that because he did not go to work on Monday. Hence, Mister Socks' brother tipped the police to look into his brother's whereabouts on Sunday. Mister Socks' own brother thinks he could have something nefarious to do with VMs murder so he had to give a DNA swab.

It is one thing to miss work without a valid excuse but for your brother to turn you in as a suspect in a murder investigation because you did not go to work is HUGE.
Then, in an update, we are told that LEO needs more than DNA to prove someone was her killer. :thinking:

Mister Socks had his phone turned off for two days as a result of a dispute with his Mother. If that is true, how did he receive the two alerts he said he heard ring on his phone? Thanks in advance for helping me to eliminate him as a POI.

 

[Madeleine74]

Is Socks still considered a POI by LE? It seems like they moved on past him, at least unofficially, if no announcements were made.

 

[Steleheart]

Greetings. :loveyou: Something I cannot reconcile is that Mister Socks was turned in to Police by his own brother. Mister Socks wants us to believe that his brother did that because he did not go to work on Monday. Hence, Mister Socks' brother tipped the police to look into his brother's whereabouts on Sunday. Mister Socks' own brother thinks he could have something nefarious to do with VMs murder so he had to give a DNA swab.

It is one thing to miss work without a valid excuse but for your brother to turn you in as a suspect in a murder investigation because you did not go to work is HUGE.
Then, in an update, we are told that LEO needs more than DNA to prove someone was her killer. :thinking:

Mister Socks had his phone turned off for two days as a result of a dispute with his Mother. If that is true, how did he receive the two alerts he said he heard ring on his phone? Thanks in advance for helping me to eliminate him as a POI.

The very best way to eliminate the gentleman interviewed in just his socks as a POI is that he has not been NAMED as POI for purposes of discussion here.

He volunteered his DNA and offered an interview.

We have no idea of the family dynamic that may have played into any dispute between he and his brother and Mother.

I have shut my phone off and then checked it for alerts My newest one has an option to just receive certain alerts by tone or vibrate. That raises no flags for me.

If he went off in a huff to pout that is perfectly fine for me.

IMO DNA would have come back by now. It sounds like a family problem to me.

MOO

 

[Steleheart]

Or it could be more of a case of flipping out and not planning a murder, and then had to stage the crime to cover his tracts. Perhaps he left her there because he wanted her found and he knew they would find her quickly if he left her on her running rt. not far from the road. To me the location and even the burning makes me feel like it's somehow personal, like remorse and guilt. Wanting to erase her personal identify so he wouldn't have to look at what he did and wanting her family to find her body quickly. jMO of course.

I have understood this aspect and it's worth considering. It goes back to the unplanned or "accidental" aspect.
I don't know if I have an opinion as to whether he assaulted her somewhere else and brought her there to stage it but we know from the timeline he had plenty of time. There could have been an assault that took some time.

I am still of the mind that since we don't know the extent of her burns that they could have been of the torture type - cigarette or lighter. I don't know if there was a fire or not.

Until this recent rain we were so dry as to be ;like straw and no fire was reported that afternoon.

But this aspect goes back to someone of a young age, IMO. Obsessed and not in control of his emotions. Perhaps younger even. I think it separates from a classic SK type profile as I do not believe we have other victims that we can consider in this area over time.

Anyway I am of the camp of unplanned and spontaneous. Perhaps he had fantasized about a romance and was rebuffed.

MOO

 

[Joshua M]

First post.

I’m from Australia but, as a fellow runner, have been following this case and the tragic Karina Vetrano case that occurred just days prior.

Like everyone, I am horrified and disgusted that these women had their lives cut short in such a brutal way – their last moments on this earth would have been terrifying

My thoughts are that Vanessa’s killer is a local who may have been ‘inspired’ by the Vetrano killing and thought: “Who canI target at a local level”?

Perhaps he’s seen Vanessa (or other young females) running down this road before on a Sunday afternoon?

He knows the area and knows that if he can just get her into the bush, nobody will hear or see…and she won’t get any help

He figures that as he is a local, he might come under suspicion or get asked for a DNA sample – hence the burning of the body and taking her clothes

He was also very organized, and had a bag or (less likely) a car to carry her clothes off with, as well as equipment to start a fire

To get her into the bush without her screaming being heard from nearby houses, says to me he was also strong

He knew the area well, and felt comfortable in the environment – he was prepared for this

I also think any suggestion that she was killed somewhere else and dumped where she was found is flawed. That her shoe was recovered close by where she was found makes it highly unlikely she was killed at another location. If she was killed and stripped naked somewhere else, then she would have been taken naked to the location where she was found and her shoe would therefore not have been located there.

 

[OldSteve]

Welcome to WS and this thread Joshua M :welcome6:

 

[FindHG]

The very best way to eliminate the gentleman interviewed in just his socks as a POI is that he has not been NAMED as POI for purposes of discussion here.

He volunteered his DNA and offered an interview.

We have no idea of the family dynamic that may have played into any dispute between he and his brother and Mother.

I have shut my phone off and then checked it for alerts My newest one has an option to just receive certain alerts by tone or vibrate. That raises no flags for me.

If he went off in a huff to pout that is perfectly fine for me.

IMO DNA would have come back by now. It sounds like a family problem to me.

MOO

I tend to agree with you Steleheart. And appearances, maybe too? I'm guessing people other than his older brother noticed sock's absence and his big bro stepped up to clear things up. It behooves a comeback for slippers, considering the various things I've seen on WS.

Welcome, Joshua M, from Australia. Great first post. You're great at 'processing' this, as kick61 would have said. Thank you so much for caring to share your thoughts. Very encouraging to see that the hope for Justice for Vanessa is worldwide. I agree with you a lot, especially that the murder of strong beautiful Karina Vetrano may have triggered this beastly crime. I don't think the perp had to be too jacked to do what he did in Princeton, off of Brooks Station Rd. I see him as more weaselish, lurking in the shrubs, ready to blindside her and to drag her back there, as LE mentioned. This would be based on my impression that he spent a long time thinking about this, that he selected his victim based on size to make it easier, a sans fail for him. Vanessa Marcotte, beautiful though she was, her intellect alone would have put him out her league, if he knew her at all, seems to me. I agree with others on the thread who have more knowledge and experience with such crimes. Guessing that though he may think himself some challenged genius, he's a simple but very single minded guy. I imagine he's sitting somewhere off on his own, switching between burnishing the crime in his mind and the fear of getting caught. I appreciate your very well thought out and deep consideration of what happened to Vanessa, very thought provoking which is very welcome on WS. I hope you stay with us.

:cheers: and Welcome!

 

[FindHG]

As JEF so aptly and wisely posted, "Time is a gentleman."

Considering how much justice for this crime is sought, as any like it, the fear it engenders, how little the family has said publicly, and the lack of updates from LE, there seems to be a growing chance that they may know exactly who did this. Thus speculation here on his profile may be on the mark, but the specifics of his inhuman and soulless cruelty to Vanessa, seems to me, may be of no use to discuss.

 

[ThinkHard]

First post.

I’m from Australia but, as a fellow runner, have been following this case and the tragic Karina Vetrano case that occurred just days prior.

Like everyone, I am horrified and disgusted that these women had their lives cut short in such a brutal way – their last moments on this earth would have been terrifying

My thoughts are that Vanessa’s killer is a local who may have been ‘inspired’ by the Vetrano killing and thought: “Who canI target at a local level”?

Perhaps he’s seen Vanessa (or other young females) running down this road before on a Sunday afternoon?

He knows the area and knows that if he can just get her into the bush, nobody will hear or see…and she won’t get any help

He figures that as he is a local, he might come under suspicion or get asked for a DNA sample – hence the burning of the body and taking her clothes

He was also very organized, and had a bag or (less likely) a car to carry her clothes off with, as well as equipment to start a fire

To get her into the bush without her screaming being heard from nearby houses, says to me he was also strong

He knew the area well, and felt comfortable in the environment – he was prepared for this

I also think any suggestion that she was killed somewhere else and dumped where she was found is flawed. That her shoe was recovered close by where she was found makes it highly unlikely she was killed at another location. If she was killed and stripped naked somewhere else, then she would have been taken naked to the location where she was found and her shoe would therefore not have been located there.

If you think of it that way I suppose. But there are other was it could have gone down, in which he. Where he brought her to the location to dump her body. He could have had the idea to remove her close when he brought her back there, he could have taken her things with him and accidentally dropped a shoe not realizing it. That's a simple explanation to support the possibility of it being a spot he brought the body post morgen, but there are others as well.

I certainly don't think any of the evidence points to it being impossible that the location she was found was a dumping location, I very much get a staged feeling from the crime seen. JMO of course.

 

[ThinkHard]

I tend to agree with you Steleheart. And appearances, maybe too? I'm guessing people other than his older brother noticed sock's absence and his big bro stepped up to clear things up. It behooves a comeback for slippers, considering the various things I've seen on WS.

Welcome, Joshua M, from Australia. Great first post. You're great at 'processing' this, as kick61 would have said. Thank you so much for caring to share your thoughts. Very encouraging to see that the hope for Justice for Vanessa is worldwide. I agree with you a lot, especially that the murder of strong beautiful Karina Vetrano may have triggered this beastly crime. I don't think the perp had to be too jacked to do what he did in Princeton, off of Brooks Station Rd. I see him as more weaselish, lurking in the shrubs, ready to blindside her and to drag her back there, as LE mentioned. This would be based on my impression that he spent a long time thinking about this, that he selected his victim based on size to make it easier, a sans fail for him. Vanessa Marcotte, beautiful though she was, her intellect alone would have put him out her league, if he knew her at all, seems to me. I agree with others on the thread who have more knowledge and experience with such crimes. Guessing that though he may think himself some challenged genius, he's a simple but very single minded guy. I imagine he's sitting somewhere off on his own, switching between burnishing the crime in his mind and the fear of getting caught. I appreciate your very well thought out and deep consideration of what happened to Vanessa, very thought provoking which is very welcome on WS. I hope you stay with us.

:cheers: and Welcome!

Respectfully but quite a few times you have commented how her beauty would have made this perp out of his league and she would have somehow made him feel less then.

I take great offense at such bigoted statements. To say beautiful girls, or beautiful intelligent girls are too good for other people or that they go around believing they are, and look at people or treat people as less then is just really really really judgemental!!!! In the very same way judging what someone would do based on their race would be.

As an attractive female with a Ivy League degree, I can promise you I have never looked down on someone or thought I was too good for them. I have never judged someone because they looked wrong, or didn't have money, or didn't come from the right family. I had friends of all social classes and statutes, because I got to know people, even people others judged harsshly. VM was attractive but she also volunteered, she had a big heart ... she strikes me as someone who would have been friendly with a wide range of people too.

I think to assume that she didn't personally know this person or give them the time of day because she was "too good for them" is not only incorrect, but also like I said incredibly judgemental. And I do take great offense to it.

I'm going to hope and assume it wasn't your intention to be offensive but I can no longer hear such judgemental things without speaking up and addressing it.

 

[FindHG]

Respectfully but quite a few times you have commented how her beauty would have made this perp out of his league and she would have somehow made him feel less then.

I take great offense at such bigoted statements. To say beautiful girls, or beautiful intelligent girls are too good for other people or that they go around believing they are, and look at people or treat people as less then is just really really really judgemental!!!! In the very same way judging what someone would do based on their race would be.

As an attractive female with a Ivy League degree, I can promise you I have never looked down on someone or thought I was too good for them. I have never judged someone because they looked wrong, or didn't have money, or didn't come from the right family. I had friends of all social classes and statutes, because I got to know people, even people others judged harsshly. VM was attractive but she also volunteered, she had a big heart ... she strikes me as someone who would have been friendly with a wide range of people too.

I think to assume that she didn't personally know this person or give them the time of day because she was "too good for them" is not only incorrect, but also like I said incredibly judgemental. And I do take great offense to it.

I'm going to hope and assume it wasn't your intention to be offensive but I can no longer hear such judgemental things without speaking up and addressing it.

I appreciate, honor and respect your thoughts on this, but they change nothing for me as you've read something very different than my intent, somewhat as bait, it seems to me. Thank you for sharing it.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I appreciate your and respect your thoughts on this, but they change nothing for me as you've read something very different than my intent, as bait it seems to me. Thank you for sharing them.

Yes,it's easy to misinterpret postings; I have certainly done so. I'm so glad we are all here pressure testing each others thinking! I think this thread is making good progress on theories and possibilities. Thank you all for contributing!

 

[Tempura]

Respectfully but quite a few times you have commented how her beauty would have made this perp out of his league and she would have somehow made him feel less then.

I take great offense at such bigoted statements. To say beautiful girls, or beautiful intelligent girls are too good for other people or that they go around believing they are, and look at people or treat people as less then is just really really really judgemental!!!! In the very same way judging what someone would do based on their race would be.

As an attractive female with a Ivy League degree, I can promise you I have never looked down on someone or thought I was too good for them. I have never judged someone because they looked wrong, or didn't have money, or didn't come from the right family. I had friends of all social classes and statutes, because I got to know people, even people others judged harsshly. VM was attractive but she also volunteered, she had a big heart ... she strikes me as someone who would have been friendly with a wide range of people too.

I think to assume that she didn't personally know this person or give them the time of day because she was "too good for them" is not only incorrect, but also like I said incredibly judgemental. And I do take great offense to it.

I'm going to hope and assume it wasn't your intention to be offensive but I can no longer hear such judgemental things without speaking up and addressing it.

I don't really understand why this is something to be taken personally. The OP isn't the one passing judgment, but is simply bringing to light that often times beautiful women are judged as being untouchable. IME it's the misogynists who feel this way most often. An intelligent, beautiful woman is perceived as "too good" for them. Personality isn't a factor in their perception.

 

[tlcya]

Just wanted to note that I appreciate how well you all can discuss your differing theories and hash out where you each are arriving at them in such a respectful way! You illustrate the best of what WS can be when you do that.

 

[Steleheart]

Just wanted to note that I appreciate how well you all can discuss your differing theories and hash out where you each are arriving at them in such a respectful way! You illustrate the best of what WS can be when you do that.

And you have been helpful in that as well.
I don't know how you do what you do but thank you!

 

[tlcya]

I don't really understand why this is something to be taken personally. The OP isn't the one passing judgment, but is simply bringing to light that often times beautiful women are judged as being untouchable. IME it's the misogynists who feel this way most often. An intelligent, beautiful woman is perceived as "too good" for them. Personality isn't a factor in their perception.

BBM well put. What is being profiled by many in this thread is not our victim, it is her killer and to that end, what matters is what PERP thinks and feels, and not a statement or opinion on what Vanessa projected. How he(?) may have felt is what goes toward his motivations.