MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #5

[ForensicMass]

Good points. He could have wanted the fire to destroy it all and that was the plan. Something may have made him have to leave fast (someone coming along) , especially if a shoe was dropped and left behind. So , he may have not got it to the point he wanted. And lived close enough to get home, but not close enough for his own home to burn.

I could see the massive fire scenario. The only thing I don't like about it is that it would not be difficult whatsoever to start a massive fire in there at that time. Nor would it take much time at all. A bic lighter to a few dozen areas of leaves and twigs, a big fire would have been all but guaranteed. In August where I run trails in western mass, the rocky trail was not visible under the dead leaves. Leaves that usually don't fall off until October/November. All the leaves dropped in August and sept from the extreme drought. This area is about 75 miles southwest of Princeton. A ten year old with a single pack of matches could have turned that wooded lot into an inferno. Doesn't make sense that the fire was so contained.

 

[Rocky1]

I don't think we have a serial killer here. It's unproven. And all that stuff way back when about this case and the NY case being linked never resonated with me. I don't want to waste our efforts even looking there. The answers are in Princeton, or Rutland, or maybe Worcester. No further.

As a Massachusetts resident, I'm almost sure he is among us.

I agree. I never thought the queens case was connected. I do think this guy may be a serial killer in the making, meaning first kill, now feels confident, and will kill again.
My point was anybody can kill, Doctors, Policemen, Priests, and Bicycle Riders.

 

[ForensicMass]

I just checked google maps to see if there are cams on the outside of the Mountainside Market, and there are not. maybe there are now, the image was from 2011.
I have never been inside. Maybe there is a cam inside? Most stores have at least one, and if they did, LE may have very well looked at the footage. Still tough at that point to pick out a perp, but I guess that would be/have been a start.
I looked one night for cams on Google maps, and the only one I could find was the bank on Rt. 31 at the atm facing the road.

I don't think they have any camera in the market. Just based on the atmosphere. It just wasn't the kind of place where a camera was needed. Until it was. .

 

[Rocky1]

I could see the massive fire scenario. The only thing I don't like about it is that it would not be difficult whatsoever to start a massive fire in there at that time. Nor would it take much time at all. A bic lighter to a few dozen areas of leaves and twigs, a big fire would have been all but guaranteed. In August where I run trails in western mass, the rocky trail was not visible under the dead leaves. Leaves that usually don't fall off until October/November. All the leaves dropped in August and sept from the extreme drought. This area is about 75 miles southwest of Princeton. A ten year old with a single pack of matches could have turned that wooded lot into an inferno. Doesn't make sense that the fire was so contained.

Take another look at the crime scene. I know you think the dirt area was from LE collecting evidence, and a good part is. there are also spots where there was a machine (backhoe, excavator) working there at one point and there are areas of dirt that could have contained the fire.
Maybe that is the only thing that didn't go his way, that day.

 

[Kickoff61]

I agree. I never thought the queens case was connected. I do think this guy may be a serial killer in the making, meaning first kill, now feels confident, and will kill again.
My point was anybody can kill, Doctors, Policemen, Priests, and Bicycle Riders.

Yes, a person sick enough to kill can be in any profession or activities. Some of the most dangerous are those least expected, in particular professions, etc. Successful dangerous sociopaths.

 

[Kickoff61]

I agree. I never thought the queens case was connected. I do think this guy may be a serial killer in the making, meaning first kill, now feels confident, and will kill again.
My point was anybody can kill, Doctors, Policemen, Priests, and Bicycle Riders.

It is possible for there to be no connection with the NY case and still be a serial killer with having gotten away with crime in the past. It is looking more and more like that with the fact this was so brazen and more time passes without this person caught.

- Someone least suspected
- Someone with extensive history and knowledge of these things
- Someone who has acted out in some kind of way enough to reach this brazen point. (and still not be caught)

 

[Kickoff61]

There are many possibilities open with this, that we can keep going over, because once again, we are lacking facts to rule out anything.

 

[Rocky1]

It is possible for there to be no connection with the NY case and still be a serial killer with having gotten away with crime in the past. It is looking more and more like that with the fact this was so brazen and more time passes without this person caught.

- Someone least suspected
- Someone with extensive history and knowledge of these things
- Someone who has acted out in some kind of way enough to reach this brazen point. (and still not be caught)

You are right. We just don't know yet. It could very well be a serial killer. Those were just my thoughts connecting it with someone that lives in the area, because Princeton has never experienced something like this before, so I am thinking first kill.

 

[Kickoff61]

You are right. We just don't know yet. It could very well be a serial killer. Those were just my thoughts connecting it with someone that lives in the area, because Princeton has never experienced something like this before, so I am thinking first kill.

I suppose that would depend if he did crimes in other places and then this being the first in this area.

 

[Kickoff61]

Clearly mistakes have happened this time and hopefully they will get him soon. However, I don't see this as an amateur at all, at this point.

 

[ForensicMass]

I agree. I never thought the queens case was connected. I do think this guy may be a serial killer in the making, meaning first kill, now feels confident, and will kill again.
My point was anybody can kill, Doctors, Policemen, Priests, and Bicycle Riders.

Agree with all of that.

 

[Cem75]

If the land is a house lot and is for sale, a realtor or someone looking at it (builder with access to a butane bottle) would be familiar with the land. It's a stretch, but the local realtors should brainstorm if they have shown the property.

 

[Sheila Terranova]

Has LE mentioned please whether she was killed at the site or dumped there? My apologies if this has already been stated here.

 

[Sheila Terranova]

That's true. Why not take her if you have a car. This is something my theory had not considered and is a good question. It could be a solid knock against the car scenario. For the devils advocate, help me theorize about why someone with a car at the scene would NOT remove her body from the area?

Because then he'd have evidence in his car? Traces of blood. Hair fibers. He did not want to leave behind DNA (thus torch) nor bring DNA with him. He knows how difficult it would be to eliminate all traces from his car? So very smart. No remorse . Psychopath rather than random rapist?

 

[Sheila Terranova]

Ok need some brainstorming-

Based on where she was left, the killer must have known that she would be found relatively quickly.

What does it tell us about the killer? His getaway plan? His actions immediately upon fleeing the scene? Does anything come to mind?

We know he is smart and thorough. He is probably marked up. So he must have felt sure he was not going to be brought in as a suspect when she was quickly found. Thus we can assume he did not know her nor was he a neighbor ?

 

[liz b.]

One of VM's shoes is missing ? tia to anyone who knows.

 

[liz b.]

Let's weigh the pros and cons of each of the Perps possible Modes of transport - We have Foot, Bike, Car. We can add to the list if anyone thinks it's worthwhile.

Perp on Foot pros:

Lives very close by, likely knows area like bAck of hand. Can make quick escape to home. Has access to tools needed. Does not need to expose himself on the roadway, can travel through woods. Doesn't have to worry about HER DNA on his things (car etc). He knows neighbors and knows when no one would be at neighboring houses.

Cons:
Would likely be investigated purely based on his proximity to the crime- DNA drag net etc, has to be strong to carry out the crime, a fire could have threatened his own home, dogs may be able to track his scent, he didn't prepare the area to hide her body (this annoys me into thinking he didn't plan for long period- if all other aspects were planned it's weird that he wouldn't want to give himself more time to avoid suspicion by making her more difficult to find. He could have dug a deep hole if he could walk to this place from home, for example, MAJOR con, if he lived right there his scratches would be difficult to hide/ignore.

What else?

Let me preface this by saying that I'm not at all convinced that VM 's murder and KV's murder in queens are not related.

The burns on VM : I think he was possibly torturing her. Not an attempt to destroy DNA, because if he raped her surely he would have burned her genital area ( attempting to destroy DNA ).

The scratches/marks : He is not from this area, and does not have to answer to anyone for changes in his appearance.

I read that LE said that he is somewhat aware of this area, not that he knows the area well. Originally it was reported that VM ran in this area every time she came to visit her mother. So, a very set pattern there. The perp could have done a "dry run" when VM was at her mother's at another time, and so knew the traffic patterns in the area.

Definitely had/has a vehicle. Left the area as soon as he killed VM. These two murders were close together. IF they are connected, it could be because of some grudge held towards both women, something specific to them. In that case one could possibly expect no other repeat crimes by this/these killer(s). jmo.

 

[ForensicMass]

One of VM's shoes is missing ? tia to anyone who knows.

Yes only one burned shoe was found with her.

 

[ForensicMass]

Has LE mentioned please whether she was killed at the site or dumped there? My apologies if this has already been stated here.

We don't know. It's possible that they know, but that has not been released. I know many here have different feelings about this issue. For me it's obvious she was killed either just where she was found, or just off BSR. Given the timelines and her whereabouts, having been taken elsewhere, or even abducted elsewhere on her route and brought to this spot doesn't make sense to me. There are many better places to do a crime like this or leave a body. This town is in the WOODS.

 

[ForensicMass]

We know he is smart and thorough. He is probably marked up. So he must have felt sure he was not going to be brought in as a suspect when she was quickly found. Thus we can assume he did not know her nor was he a neighbor ?

Good points!