MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #5

[ForensicMass]

I'd have to look. If you go on Google maps, type in 62 Brooks Station Rd Princeton Ma, and go north, that takes you to Rt 31 Go South to Ball Hill Rd. Go west to BSR, and you can get an idea. Radford Rd is just north of the crime scene on the left.

Ok the complete road list (and distance run along it) includes the following:

BSR ---2 mi
RADFORD ROAD---0.4 mi (whole length)
ALLEN HILL ROAD---0.33mi(whole length)
MOUNTAIN ROAD(from boylston to slightly north of Thompson Rd intersect)---1mi
BOYLSTON AVE---0.45mi (whole length)
WORCESTER ROAD(RT31)--2.55mi
BALL HILL ROAD---1.13mi***
MATTHEWS ROAD--0.3mi

*** southerly extent of her mapped runs, she would not have made it onto this road until perhaps 2pm.

Also just thought of something. The mountain barn restaurant located on Worcester Road was precisely 3.1 miles from her house in the direction that her map routes always go. ( it is 3.2 miles the other way which is relatively negligibly different).

Her pace typically ranges from 11-13 minutes/mile. This means on the conservative end if she left at 115 pm and ran slow, she would have passed the restaurant by 1:54pm. If she left at 1 and ran fast she would pass it by 1:48pm. Meaning she would pass it by 2 o'clock no matter what. That is a full 25 minutes before her phone "locates "near the mountain barn restaurant .

 

[Cem75]

I agree - that is to my point about the types of things hopefully Google is doing to help the investigation

 

[ForensicMass]

I am not sure where "all" of her running routes were, but I know one was BSR, to Rt.31 (much busier) Ball Hill road (less busy) and I saw Radford Rd mentioned (less busy) I would imagine if she ran Radford in a block then Rt. 62 (much busier)
I'd have to look on Ball Hill Rd, but, I do think there is less area there where he could have pulled this off, meaning homes closer to the road, less spaced out etc. but again, not sure. Not sure at all about Radford. Both Radford and Ball Hill Road are narrower, so harder to pull a car off the side.

RADFORD and ALLEN HILL RD are both side-streets. But they are quite narrow- really only one car width- two cars would have to pass each other quite carefully. More importantly, though, these two roads are more like neighborhoods than through streets. The houses are generally denser together. From a map review of RADFORD just about every house appears to have line of sight to the roadway, with not much wooded frontage along the road. Some of the houses on ALLEN HILL RD have greater setbacks., but generally also not much for wooded land bordering the road.
Both of these roads are also very short, only about a third of a mile long each.

BOYLSTON AVE is short, but does connect with BSR and has a pull off at 0.75 miles from where she was found-There is a small pond adjacent. Someone could easily throw a cell phone from the pull off way out into the water body. Wonder if police divers have searched it?

 

[Rocky1]

Ok the complete road list (and distance run along it) includes the following:

BSR ---2 mi
RADFORD ROAD---0.4 mi (whole length)
ALLEN HILL ROAD---0.33mi(whole length)
MOUNTAIN ROAD(from boylston to slightly north of Thompson Rd intersect)---1mi
BOYLSTON AVE---0.45mi (whole length)
WORCESTER ROAD(RT31)--2.55mi
BALL HILL ROAD---1.13mi***
MATTHEWS ROAD--0.3mi

*** southerly extent of her mapped runs, she would not have made it onto this road until perhaps 2pm.

Also just thought of something. The mountain barn restaurant located on Worcester Road was precisely 3.1 miles from her house in the direction that her map routes always go. ( it is 3.2 miles the other way which is relatively negligibly different).

Her pace typically ranges from 11-13 minutes/mile. This means on the conservative end if she left at 115 pm and ran slow, she would have passed the restaurant by 1:54pm. If she left at 1 and ran fast she would pass it by 1:48pm. Meaning she would pass it by 2 o'clock no matter what. That is a full 25 minutes before her phone "locates "near the mountain barn restaurant .

As discussed before, if she continued past the Mountain Barn, then Ball Hill Road, That would have put her on the south side of her moms house, and also south of the path, meaning she would have had to turn around and run back the way that she came in order to run past the path. She could have, but not any point really, because it's almost the same distance either way.This is why most seem to think she was abducted at the beginning of her run/walk.

 

[ForensicMass]

Final thought for now- if the perp is local to the neighborhood, and saw VANESSA running before, on more than one occasion, then she may have seen him around, too. And to me that says that if the assault was planned, then he must also have planned to kill her since she could probably identify him.

I say this in comparison to if it was some random stalker from a far away land, he might be less concerned that she would recognize him. And maybe assault her and let her go.
Of course we know that didn't happen. So that adds a point to the "she has seen his face before column". But he could just as easily just be ruthless and kill her just because. Hmm

 

[Rocky1]

RADFORD and ALLEN HILL RD are both side-streets. But they are quite narrow- really only one car width- two cars would have to pass each other quite carefully. More importantly, though, these two roads are more like neighborhoods than through streets. The houses are generally denser together. From a map review of RADFORD just about every house appears to have line of sight to the roadway, with not much wooded frontage along the road. Some of the houses on ALLEN HILL RD have greater setbacks., but generally also not much for wooded land bordering the road.
Both of these roads are also very short, only about a third of a mile long each.

BOYLSTON AVE is short, but does connect with BSR and has a pull off at 0.75 miles from where she was found-There is a small pond adjacent. Someone could easily throw a cell phone from the pull off way out into the water body. Wonder if police divers have searched it?

Not sure if it was searched, but there was discussion about him cleaning up at that pond. I guess he could have, but, I see him getting the hell away quick, not hanging around.

 

[ForensicMass]

As discussed before, if she continued past the Mountain Barn, then Ball Hill Road, That would have put her on the south side of her moms house, and also south of the path, meaning she would have had to turn around and run back the way that she came in order to run past the path. She could have, but not any point really, because it's almost the same distance either way.This is why most seem to think she was abducted at the beginning of her run/walk.

Yea. She never turned around on the mapped runs except for a run up to the RADFORD road intersection and back. She could have ran past her moms and kept going to add overall distance, but now we are talking about it being like 230-245. And that run would total 8 miles which is more than she typically did. It would be a LONG run in that heat. I've done it, not fun.

 

[ForensicMass]

Not sure if it was searched, but there was discussion about him cleaning up at that pond. I guess he could have, but, I see him getting the hell away quick, not hanging around.

Yea, good point. Too visible there too for cleaning up. But he could pull over and pitch the phone.

 

[Rocky1]

Final thought for now- if the perp is local to the neighborhood, and saw VANESSA running before, on more than one occasion, then she may have seen him around, too. And to me that says that if the assault was planned, then he must also have planned to kill her since she could probably identify him.

I say this in comparison to if it was some random stalker from a far away land, he might be less concerned that she would recognize him. And maybe assault her and let her go.
Of course we know that didn't happen. So that adds a point to the "she has seen his face before column". But he could just as easily just be ruthless and kill her just because. Hmm

My thoughts are he planned on killing her from the beginning, lurked and stalked her. A sexual sadist that enjoys watching people suffer. local (was able to lurk and know her route) young (no DNA in the data base yet)

 

[Rocky1]

Yea. She never turned around on the mapped runs except for a run up to the RADFORD road intersection and back. She could have ran past her moms and kept going to add overall distance, but now we are talking about it being like 230-245. And that run would total 8 miles which is more than she typically did. It would be a LONG run in that heat. I've done it, not fun.

And 2:45 plus the remainder of the run, with a bus to catch at 4:15? Not much time for a shower, pack, plus the half hour ride to Worcester.

 

[Rocky1]

In regards to the torch. I did see photos of a log laying down to the right of that 4" log laying down in the photo. It looked like LE had moved itl It may have been with the photos that Bob Ward (fox news)posted, then removed because of the out cry from the public. That log had about a 4 foot long sooted area. Add that to the log with the sooted area about a foot or so long, and the burn marks on the vertical tree, and the ash, not to mention the evidence they took with them. That's a lot of test burns.
Your post earlier indicated that a torch isn't a good way to get rid of DNA. Burning down the woods and an entire body is. Still think he had a torch?

 

[ForensicMass]

In regards to the torch. I did see photos of a log laying down to the right of that 4" log laying down in the photo. It looked like LE had moved itl It may have been with the photos that Bob Ward (fox news)posted, then removed because of the out cry from the public. That log had about a 4 foot long sooted area. Add that to the log with the sooted area about a foot or so long, and the burn marks on the vertical tree, and the ash, not to mention the evidence they took with them. That's a lot of test burns.
Your post earlier indicated that a torch isn't a good way to get rid of DNA. Burning down the woods and an entire body is. Still think he had a torch?

I wish I could see close ups of the photos. The main thing that pointed to torch for me was the small circular burn on the vertical tree that did not appear as something that could be made with a lighter. I'll grant you that burning down the town would have worked better to erase the DNA, though.

 

[ForensicMass]

And 2:45 plus the remainder of the run, with a bus to catch at 4:15? Not much time for a shower, pack, plus the half hour ride to Worcester.

Yea, I don't think she'd have gone past the path twice if she did that loop that included BALL HILL RD. I dont think it would be possible to get her on Worcester or mountain roads, they seem too busy and/or populated. Based on the timeframe the best place seems to be on BSR.

 

[Rocky1]

I wish I could see close ups of the photos. The main thing that pointed to torch for me was the small circular burn on the vertical tree that did not appear as something that could be made with a lighter. I'll grant you that burning down the town would have worked better to erase the DNA, though.

I didn't look at the circular burn on the tree, How big in diameter? can you post it? was it something that could be made from poking with a hot stick? or larger?

 

[liz b.]

Yes only one burned shoe was found with her.

Her missing running shoe is a trophy ? Was it running that first drew the perp to VM ? I was interested because one of KV's running shoes was found a ways from her body. I think her killer may have dropped it as he ran from the scene. jmo

 

[liz b.]

LE said that they had the perp's DNA from VM's body. Did they say whether it matches any DNA on file ? TIA.

 

[Rocky1]

Her missing running shoe is a trophy ? Was it running that first drew the perp to VM ? I was interested because one of KV's running shoes was found a ways from her body. I think her killer may have dropped it as he ran from the scene. jmo

Could very well be. I was thinking she may have lost one if he was dragging her down the path, saw it when he left, and picked it up because it was close to the road where it may be seen.
The partially burned shoe I think says that he burned her clothes. Her feet were burned, so if one shoe was missing, he took off her shoe/shoes and burned them/it separate.

 

[liz b.]

My thoughts are he planned on killing her from the beginning, lurked and stalked her. A sexual sadist that enjoys watching people suffer. local (was able to lurk and know her route) young (no DNA in the data base yet)

I think this was a murder. The rest is "window dressing". jmo/

 

[Rocky1]

LE said that they had the perp's DNA from VM's body. Did they say whether it matches any DNA on file ? TIA.

Actually, LE never did say they had her DNA. What they did say, is, that it was a male. I think MSN took that to mean they found DNA, and they are probably right but as far as I know LE never reported it.

 

[liz b.]

Could very well be. I was thinking she may have lost one if he was dragging her down the path, saw it when he left, and picked it up because it was close to the road where it may be seen.
The partially burned shoe I think says that he burned her clothes. Her feet were burned, so if one shoe was missing, he took off her shoe/shoes and burned them/it separate.

You mean that he took her clothing, and her other shoe, and burned them away from the crime scene ? I think the burning was to instill terror. Not to destroy DNA or any other type of evidence.. jmo