MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #5

[ForensicMass]

Can you recall the most recent time they emphasized that?

I'm fairly certain in hasn't been in a while, and I feel strongly that they do not believe it was random, but can't remember if that was from media reported stuff, or town chatter.

For the record, ThinkHard, I've followed you here from the beginning and I think you are a huge asset here. Please don't misunderstand my position. I am more in line with your posts and thinking than I am with anyone else. Doesn't mean we aren't both wrong. But I generally agree with what you've shared here

 

[Kickoff61]

I know people think she could have been brought back. And it is purely my opinion that she was NOT returned to the site. Of course I could be wrong but there is no evidence to back this up whatsoever and generically it just doesn't make any sense for this to happen in any case. Show me another case where the victim was transported back to the area of the abduction. As far as I know there is no precedence for this whatsoever. I've never heard of this, not even in Hollywood.

I do not believe anyone said she was transported 'back' to where she was abducted. Where did you get that from? What was said is that she could have been killed elsewhere, then put there. or somewhere else on her running route and then put there to manipulate the crime scene. Those are the 2 examples I saw. Never did I see anyone say she was abducted there, taken away and brought back.

 

[ForensicMass]

Well if he wasn't planning on killings her for one.

I can't speculate on whether the motive was simply assault or assault and murder, but I agree that SPECIFICALLY, he didn't intend to kill her THERE.

 

[ForensicMass]

I do not believe anyone said she was transported 'back' to where she was abducted. Where did you get that from? What was said is that she could have been killed elsewhere, then put there. or somewhere else on her running route and then put there to manipulate the crime scene. Those are the 2 examples I saw. Never did I see anyone say she was abducted there, taken away and brought back.

You may be correct on that. I should then specify that I do not believe she was abducted elsewhere on her route and transported to this location. Again the reasons are 1- no publicly known witness reports of her being seen on the other, busier roads (Coupled with known witness reports of her ON BSR) 2- the busier roads would certainly have posed a major witness problem for the perp, especially rt 31. He couldn't bet on not being seen in the act. And he couldn't stop his car on that road to chat, lure or capture her. 3-if the person knew her route, they would have chosen BSR for the abduction, if planned, since it was the obvious choice based on traffic and low pop density.4- it's a FACT that she was on BSR, since she started there. So assuming she was taken there is automatically less of a stretch than the alternative roads.

Lastly, if she was picked up elsewhere, again, having a personal knowledge of Princeton, this is not even in the top 50 places to dump her within a 5 or 7 minute drive.

 

[Kickoff61]

You may be correct on that. I should then specify that I do not believe she was abducted elsewhere on her route and transported to this location. Again the reasons are 1- no publicly known witness reports of her being seen on the other, busier roads (Coupled with known witness reports of her ON BSR) 2- the busier roads would certainly have posed a major witness problem for the perp, especially rt 31. He couldn't bet on not being seen in the act. And he couldn't stop his car on that road to chat, lure or capture her. 3-if the person knew her route, they would have chosen BSR for the abduction, if planned, since it was the obvious choice based on traffic and low pop density.4- it's a FACT that she was on BSR, since she started there. So assuming she was taken there is automatically less of a stretch than the alternative roads.

Lastly, if she was picked up elsewhere, again, having a personal knowledge of Princeton, this is not even in the top 50 places to dump her within a 5 or 7 minute drive.

Ok, that is your opinion. However, I am sorry it seems like you put forth things as though you know all the info. in approx. 1,000 tips. No-one knows what all those tips are. Clearly they have a lot of other info.

 

[Rocky1]

You may be correct on that. I should then specify that I do not believe she was abducted elsewhere on her route and transported to this location. Again the reasons are 1- no publicly known witness reports of her being seen on the other, busier roads (Coupled with known witness reports of her ON BSR) 2- the busier roads would certainly have posed a major witness problem for the perp, especially rt 31. He couldn't bet on not being seen in the act. And he couldn't stop his car on that road to chat, lure or capture her. 3-if the person knew her route, they would have chosen BSR for the abduction, if planned, since it was the obvious choice based on traffic and low pop density.4- it's a FACT that she was on BSR, since she started there. So assuming she was taken there is automatically less of a stretch than the alternative roads.

Lastly, if she was picked up elsewhere, again, having a personal knowledge of Princeton, this is not even in the top 50 places to dump her within a 5 or 7 minute drive.

So, you think he was a local, that saw her in the store, but doesn't live near Princeton.
You say that it doesn't make sense that a car was involved, but LE is right about the perp being in an SUV.
You say he had no intentions of killing her there, but had a blow torch with him, that he didn't leave, grab, and then return with.
Am I missing something?

 

[ForensicMass]

Ok, that is your opinion. However, I am sorry it seems like you put forth things as though you know all the info. in approx. 1,000 tips. No-one knows what all those tips are. Clearly they have a lot of other info.

I'm just going off of the info that is available to us. I can't guess what other info LE has to form a theory.

 

[Kickoff61]

Locals - Are all the other roads on all her running routes busier than BSR?

 

[Kickoff61]

I'm just going off of the info that is available to us. I can't guess what other info LE has to form a theory.

Exactly - my point. Tips could have come in regarding other areas or roads.

 

[ForensicMass]

So, you think he was a local, that saw her in the store, but doesn't live near Princeton.
You say that it doesn't make sense that a car was involved, but LE is right about the perp being in an SUV.
You say he had no intentions of killing her there, but had a blow torch with him, that he didn't leave, grab, and then return with.
Am I missing something?

First off- I'm not stuck on any of this, it's just the best my mind can do. Any you have it somewhat right. I can elaborate -

Princeton is tiny. I'm not saying that he doesn't live near Princeton. I am saying that he likely does not live IN Princeton. LE has already scoped every dark SUV in town. If the perp were very close to the scene, as you or someone else mentioned, it could be pretty hard to hide scratches. So I don't think he was THAT close.

I don't like that an SUV was used if the person lived within walking distance.
So I accept that an SUV was involved, since LE is sure of it. And I therefore have to reject that the perp lives within walking distance.

Having a torch is not something that is specific to people who go around killing other people. It is a pretty common tool carried by a lot of people for all kinds of work applications. NOr is a torch the best weapon to get rid of DNA, as we see in this case. So yes I do believe he could have had a torch incidentally, and not as a part of the murder plan.

Is that any better? I'm not meaning to sound like I think I'm an expert, I'm just guessing the best I can.

 

[Rocky1]

Locals - Are all the other roads on all her running routes busier than BSR?

I am not sure where "all" of her running routes were, but I know one was BSR, to Rt.31 (much busier) Ball Hill road (less busy) and I saw Radford Rd mentioned (less busy) I would imagine if she ran Radford in a block then Rt. 62 (much busier)
I'd have to look on Ball Hill Rd, but, I do think there is less area there where he could have pulled this off, meaning homes closer to the road, less spaced out etc. but again, not sure. Not sure at all about Radford. Both Radford and Ball Hill Road are narrower, so harder to pull a car off the side.

 

[Rocky1]

First off- I'm not stuck on any of this, it's just the best my mind can do. Any you have it somewhat right. I can elaborate -

Princeton is tiny. I'm not saying that he doesn't live near Princeton. I am saying that he likely does not live IN Princeton. LE has already scoped every dark SUV in town. If the perp were very close to the scene, as you or someone else mentioned, it could be pretty hard to hide scratches. So I don't think he was THAT close.

I don't like that an SUV was used if the person lived within walking distance.
So I accept that an SUV was involved, since LE is sure of it. And I therefore have to reject that the perp lives within walking distance.

Having a torch is not something that is specific to people who go around killing other people. It is a pretty common tool carried by a lot of people for all kinds of work applications. NOr is a torch the best weapon to get rid of DNA, as we see in this case. So yes I do believe he could have had a torch incidentally, and not as a part of the murder plan.

Is that any better? I'm not meaning to sound like I think I'm an expert, I'm just guessing the best I can.

Just trying to see where you stand, is all.
Ok so maybe you can explain why on a 90 degree day, someone would have a torch with them? An SUV isn't a work truck.

 

[Kickoff61]

First off- I'm not stuck on any of this, it's just the best my mind can do. Any you have it somewhat right. I can elaborate -

Princeton is tiny. I'm not saying that he doesn't live near Princeton. I am saying that he likely does not live IN Princeton. LE has already scoped every dark SUV in town. If the perp were very close to the scene, as you or someone else mentioned, it could be pretty hard to hide scratches. So I don't think he was THAT close.

I don't like that an SUV was used if the person lived within walking distance.
So I accept that an SUV was involved, since LE is sure of it. And I therefore have to reject that the perp lives within walking distance.

Having a torch is not something that is specific to people who go around killing other people. It is a pretty common tool carried by a lot of people for all kinds of work applications. NOr is a torch the best weapon to get rid of DNA, as we see in this case. So yes I do believe he could have had a torch incidentally, and not as a part of the murder plan.

Is that any better? I'm not meaning to sound like I think I'm an expert, I'm just guessing the best I can.

So if by chance he was in walking distance, but he did not have matches or torch when he ended up with scratches and DNA left behind and had to get it , as well as take her items he would walk both ways? (with items and scratches, then torch)?

 

[Kickoff61]

I am not sure where "all" of her running routes were, but I know one was BSR, to Rt.31 (much busier) Ball Hill road (less busy) and I saw Radford Rd mentioned (less busy) I would imagine if she ran Radford in a block then Rt. 62 (much busier)
I'd have to look on Ball Hill Rd, but, I do think there is less area there where he could have pulled this off, meaning homes closer to the road, less spaced out etc. but again, not sure. Not sure at all about Radford. Both Radford and Ball Hill Road are narrower, so harder to pull a car off the side.

Ok. Thanks. Any areas on the roads, with houses a bit separated where someone could have done this from their property?

 

[Rocky1]

Ok. Thanks. Any areas on the roads, with houses a bit separated where someone could have done this from their property?

I'd have to look. If you go on Google maps, type in 62 Brooks Station Rd Princeton Ma, and go north, that takes you to Rt 31 Go South to Ball Hill Rd. Go west to BSR, and you can get an idea. Radford Rd is just north of the crime scene on the left.

 

[ThinkHard]

For the record, ThinkHard, I've followed you here from the beginning and I think you are a huge asset here. Please don't misunderstand my position. I am more in line with your posts and thinking than I am with anyone else. Doesn't mean we aren't both wrong. But I generally agree with what you've shared here

I apologize if that came off short or cold it wasn't meant too, I was genuinely just asking if you happen to recall the last time LE emphasized that point.

Regarding the previous stuff, I wasn't saying you intended anything, I was merely telling you how it felt from my perspective, not that you meant it that ways

 

[Kickoff61]

I'd have to look. If you go on Google maps, type in 62 Brooks Station Rd Princeton Ma, and go north, that takes you to Rt 31 Go South to Ball Hill Rd. Go west to BSR, and you can get an idea. Radford Rd is just north of the crime scene on the left.

Ok, Thanks.

 

[ForensicMass]

I am not sure where "all" of her running routes were, but I know one was BSR, to Rt.31 (much busier) Ball Hill road (less busy) and I saw Radford Rd mentioned (less busy) I would imagine if she ran Radford in a block then Rt. 62 (much busier)
I'd have to look on Ball Hill Rd, but, I do think there is less area there where he could have pulled this off, meaning homes closer to the road, less spaced out etc. but again, not sure. Not sure at all about Radford. Both Radford and Ball Hill Road are narrower, so harder to pull a car off the side.

Hold on, I'll get us a complete list of the route roads

 

[ForensicMass]

I apologize if that came off short or cold it wasn't meant too, I was genuinely just asking if you happen to recall the last time LE emphasized that point.

Regarding the previous stuff, I wasn't saying you intended anything, I was merely telling you how it felt from my perspective, not that you meant it that ways

I understand. My apologies for that. Certainly did not mean to come off that way or diminish your perspective.

 

[Kickoff61]

I'd have to look. If you go on Google maps, type in 62 Brooks Station Rd Princeton Ma, and go north, that takes you to Rt 31 Go South to Ball Hill Rd. Go west to BSR, and you can get an idea. Radford Rd is just north of the crime scene on the left.

That is a rural area. I am not saying this happened , as there are many possibilities as I previously said, but from what I could see, there are houses she could easily have been attacked right from their property and then brought in vehicle to the cart path. I will look more tomorrow.