MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #5

[ThinkHard]

The victim discriptions of the perps in these cases don't match. Milford was white male 6' tall blue eyes, northboro was 2 Hispanic males. Not serially related. Not the work of a serial killer. So again, HOW UNCOMMON ARE THESE RANDOM ATTACKS, REALLY? I know we don't want to think this is some new reality, but maybe it is???

I certainly acknowledge random assaults do happen...but VM's case seems different...the location, the odds of coming upon a visitor over a local out for a walk, the fact she ended up dead, and burned...her case feels personal not random.

 

[Evey]

I searched about joggers being attacked and found this and it's like the other areas of attack and tall like the one link that was posted about the recent attack also said the guy was and searching but has shown me way more attacks than I realized. http://www.westernmassnews.com/stor...ter-jogger-reportedly-attacked-at-forest-park

 

[ForensicMass]

I searched about joggers being attacked and found this and it's like the other areas of attack and tall like the one link that was posted about the recent attack also said the guy was and searching but has shown me way more attacks than I realized. http://www.westernmassnews.com/stor...ter-jogger-reportedly-attacked-at-forest-park

Good article.

Another tall guy, but Milford attacker reportedly had "slim" build. This woman in Springfield says he was 240lbs. That's not a slim dude.

 

[ForensicMass]

I certainly acknowledge random assaults do happen...but VM's case seems different...the location, the odds of coming upon a visitor over a local out for a walk, the fact she ended up dead, and burned...her case feels personal not random.

I don't see the location as a huge issue, but I agree the nature of the killing does evoke a possible personal connection. Or, he didn't expect her to injure him, and when she did, It BECAME personal. Whoever he is, he's a viscious person, no doubt.

 

[ThinkHard]

I don't see the location as a huge issue, but I agree the nature of the killing does evoke a possible personal connection. Or, he didn't expect her to injure him, and when she did, It BECAME personal. Whoever he is, he's a viscious person, no doubt.

The location I think says something because Princeton isn't off any highways, so it's unlikely a place someone would just be cruising through. It's also much smaller then any of the other locations with far less shops etc...meaning one would stand out more, and it wasn't very far from the center of town.

 

[ForensicMass]

The location I think says something because Princeton isn't off any highways, so it's unlikely a place someone would just be cruising through. It's also much smaller then any of the other locations with far less shops etc...meaning one would stand out more, and it wasn't very far from the center of town.

And these are all VERY GOOD reasons why this was probably a crime by a (semi)local.

But none of these reasons completely EXCLUDE the possibility that someone was passing through. Could be that the killer was hunting in just such a place. Fewer shops and potential victims, yes. But also, therefore, fewer witnesses and cameras. Just food for thought here.

 

[Evey]

https://www.google.com/amp/heavy.co...-new-latest-karina-vetrano/amp/?client=safari For anyone wanting to read the actual post this jogger made about the man in the van this has it and frankly t doesn't sound like the cops make it out to be as some good guy cause why someone quietly hiding behind the snotty passenger front seat she would need to reach across to get said water?

 

[ThinkHard]

https://www.google.com/amp/heavy.co...-new-latest-karina-vetrano/amp/?client=safari For anyone wanting to read the actual post this jogger made about the man in the van this has it and frankly t doesn't sound like the cops make it out to be as some good guy cause why someone quietly hiding behind the snotty passenger front seat she would need to reach across to get said water?

The man who I know personally drives around people with disabilities ... which is why his passenger was in the back seat.

Respectfully let this one go, this is a guy who tries to help people and might be slightly awkward and a women who over reacted because of the recent events of VM's death. Not anything more.

 

[ForensicMass]

Which number is closest to your leading theory if YOU HAD to pick a leading theory:
(Feel free to add an example I didn't mention)

Right now I rate liklihood as follows, with 1 being most likely perp.

1-Semi-local that had seen her before
2-Semi-local that saw her only earlier that day
3-Random predator hunting for a victim in an unlikely and "safe" place
4- semi-local that saw her for the first time while she ran that day
5a- very-local (living on her running route)
5b- someone who was bigger part of her life (to me these rate as less likely than 1-4 above in part because these types are easier to identify, and we are pushing five months with no ID.

6-long time admirer/stalker with a plan (complexity always loses out to simplicity)

7-workplace/techie stalker with a plan
8-someone she was intentially meeting that day (basically zero percent chance in my mind, but outlining for completeness)

 

[ThinkHard]

And these are all VERY GOOD reasons why this was probably a crime by a (semi)local.

But none of these reasons completely EXCLUDE the possibility that someone was passing through. Could be that the killer was hunting in just such a place. Fewer shops and potential victims, yes. But also, therefore, fewer witnesses and cameras. Just food for thought here.

I think you'd have to even be aware it existed though..which means you'd have to be semi local or have relatives out here....honestly most people I know in MA who aren't from central MA, have never even heard of places like Holden, Paxton, Princeton...let alone are aware of where exactly it's located. It's actually astounding how often I get asked "where's that" ... saying wachusett Mnt (because of annoying wa wachusett ads) or near Worcester is pretty much the only reference points.

 

[ThinkHard]

Which number is closest to your leading theory if YOU HAD to pick a leading theory:
(Feel free to add an example I didn't mention)

Right now I rate liklihood as follows, with 1 being most likely perp.

1-Semi-local that had seen her before
2-Semi-local that saw her only earlier that day
3-Random predator hunting for a victim in an unlikely and "safe" place
4- semi-local that saw her for the first time while she ran that day
5a- very-local (living on her running route)
5b- someone who was bigger part of her life (to me these rate as less likely than 1-4 above in part because these types are easier to identify, and we are pushing five months with no ID.

6-long time admirer/stalker with a plan (complexity always loses out to simplicity)

7-workplace/techie stalker with a plan
8-someone she was intentially meeting that day (basically zero percent chance in my mind, but outlining for completeness)

Ha I'm completely opposite of you, basically everything you think there is a high chance of I would rank low and vise versa.

 

[ThinkHard]

http://mydeathspace.com/vb/showthre...assaulted-and-strangled-to-death-in-Princeton Ok I haven't finished reading all of this but the quote someone has from an article saying she has a bf and he was out of town in Australia and not a suspect is news to me if true.

I believe it was an ex bf, and he was ruled out early because he was out of town...but that about all that ever came out about it.

 

[liz b.]

I don't see it, for the fact that electronics are too traceable. And we have to expect that google is willing to help investigators with all things tech in the investigation. They have analyzed her phone records, and anything stored on the cloud (which all my Google friends use).

It is an angle, Sure. But is it, as you say, the most-likely profile? I don't know that we can say that.

I think a random act from a random passerby is equally unlikely. I won't say likely, because I don't think either of those scenarios warrants the word.
If I had to pick suave Google guy with secret phone tracking software, or opportunistic killer who sees a female and randomly decides to attack. I pick the random attack guy- just look at the news-----

AND THIS QUESTION IS FOR ALL, please consider, and share your thoughts!

do we think the attempted attacks in Westborough and northboro this summer were by people that knew the victims? The victims couldn't identify their attackers.

Or what about in Milford this week- she didn't recognize her attacker- he seemingly attacked at random.

Are these seemingly random attacks THAT uncommon? Are they RANDOM? Thoughts?

It just seems more probable to me than some grandiose scheme, you know? Of course you can think what you want. Not trying to make you agree, just pointing out the basis for my thinking.

Several attacks. Only one ( quite brutal) murder. Why ?

 

[Emb72]

But wouldn't it not work because if but the SUV thing? And the fact that I'm sure people would notice a ups truck and they be on a schedule also. And since you can track packages I'm sure when the LE and FBI looked into electronic stuff and social media stuff they'd find a email confirming something being shipped and then they'd look at that and see the delivery date or click the track my package thing and see he was supposed to drop one off that day. I just feel that like the idea of a secret bf or even a fling that the FBI would have found it. People usually use their own cells not expecting to need to not do so. They just would hide the texts and delete them etc

I agree with you. This happened on a sunday, I do not believe, I could be wrong, but I do not believe fedex delivers on sundays. And it would be very obvious, for reasons you stated, knowing how close the employees are, atleast with my husband's station, and knowing something this horrible happened on a fellow co-workers route, the release of a vehicle description, which would be a personal vehicle not a fedex vehicle which are clearly marked, it would be very obvious IMO. easy to nail down so to speak.

 

[ForensicMass]

Ha I'm completely opposite of you, basically everything you think there is a high chance of I would rank low and vise versa.

So you rate techie stalker over semi-local ? Just want to make sure you understand 1 is most likely.

 

[ForensicMass]

Several attacks. Only one ( quite brutal) murder. Why ?

The others detailed that they managed to escape. Had they not, who's to say what would have happened? I'm not suggesting that the cases are all related by any means I'm just suggesting that random attacks on women might not be as unusual as we think. Case in point KV in New York just four days previous. That was a pretty brutal murder. Completely unrelated to our subject case I'm almost certain. Which means there are is more than one whack job out there willing to commit this type of crime Vanessa's case is not a standalone case.

 

[ThinkHard]

So you rate techie stalker over semi-local ? Just want to make sure you understand 1 is most likely.

I don't think it's semi local admire her from affair no.

If it's local I think the most likely scenario is that this person knows her in a personal manner...and that the event was a snap decision with a cover up.

If it's non local I think it would have to be someone with tech skills who could track her, considering where she worked...I'd start with co workers...or as Evy suggested former coworkers or BU alumni.

If we learn more of course this could change, but as of now this is what makes known things fit most neatly into place...of course at least IMO

 

[ForensicMass]

I think you'd have to even be aware it existed though..which means you'd have to be semi local or have relatives out here....honestly most people I know in MA who aren't from central MA, have never even heard of places like Holden, Paxton, Princeton...let alone are aware of where exactly it's located. It's actually astounding how often I get asked "where's that" ... saying wachusett Mnt (because of annoying wa wachusett ads) or near Worcester is pretty much the only reference points.

That is a good point. I believe this would not have been somebody that had never been to Princeton. But what about someone like me that has been there for work, but would definitely not consider myself semi-local. I've been there enough to have some familiarity with the town to know what the atmosphere is like. But I wouldn't say I'm semi-local. An attacker with similar familiarity would fall under "random attacker". He knows enough of the nature of the hunting ground, but is not from nearby.

 

[ThinkHard]

The others detailed that they managed to escape. Had they not, who's to say what would have happened? I'm not suggesting that the cases are all related by any means I'm just suggesting that random attacks on women might not be as unusual as we think. Case in point KV in New York just four days previous. That was a pretty brutal murder. Completely unrelated to our subject case I'm almost certain. Which means there are is more than one whack job out there willing to commit this type of crime Vanessa's case is not a standalone case.

I don't think anyone is disputing that women get attacked by a perp literally daily by random wackos...I think what we are saying is that in this case it doesn't seem to fit for some reason.

 

[ThinkHard]

That is a good point. I believe this would not have been somebody that had never been to Princeton. But what about someone like me that has been there for work, but would definitely not consider myself semi-local. I've been there enough to have some familiarity with the town to know what the atmosphere is like. But I wouldn't say I'm semi-local. An attacker with similar familiarity would fall under "random attacker". He knows enough of the nature of the hunting ground, but is not from nearby.

I could see that...but if you were going to commit a crime in a place you'd been to for work (most likely not on weekends) .... then I'd think you'd have gone there a few times ahead of commiting the act to stake it out...you'd want to see places to get out of sight, and frequency of traffic ... I mean either that or he just got damn lucky. My point is I'm not sure you'd use just your previous knowledge to know the kind of details to execute a murder at that location. So chances are he'd perhaps been seen around?

I think workers are a possibility..but then that brings up a few questions...most work is done on week days...she was mostly home on weekends...so how did he learn about her?

If he just picked the location and not her...it's an odd time to be waiting fir a runner at peak heat on a hot summer day...and what are the chances he ends up killing a visitor instead of a local ...when both HS and college age girls would be home and running those roads all summer?