MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #6

[Kickoff61]

I think it was someone close by, who does not have to volunteer dna, so is safe, add long as they stay clean with the law. This, to me, points to a long , tedious path to conviction. Not one they would jeopardize by making any mistakes, in gathering evidence that are not iron clad.

Agreed. Yes, they will not jeopardize it and have concrete evidence.

 

[ThinkHard]

This in all likelihood has nothing to do with it but he did grow up within miles of the crime scene. Jefferson is a section of Holden and for some reason has its own post office and zip code/ mailing address. And Holden of course is next to Princeton.

This man went on a lone hike in winter, on xmas eve in NH and his body was found diseased with adequate gear. It also says he was experienced ... which makes me wonder what supplies someone like that may carry on them in a regular basis. He was also the same age as VM.

https://www.google.com/amp/boston.c...r-26-dies-in-new-hampshire/amp/?client=safari

 

[Kickoff61]

We know in hindsight that her body would have been found anyway, even if she was buried, and he may have too.
Setting that aside, the Hillside Stranglers left their victims where they could be found easily, and they planned in advance on killing them.
I know it was discussed before that if he wanted his victim found, he would have left her along the roadside, and I agreed, but, maybe if it was dark, he may have done just that but didn't want to be seen dragging her back to the roadside.
The Hillside Stranglers thought they were smart enough not to get caught, and were cocky, taunting LE, and maybe this guy is too.
Just a thought.
My thoughts are that he wanted those woods to go up in fire, destroying all of the DNA, so he didn't care about her being found, and was in a rush to get away.
He may have been smart enough to know that even if she was buried, he could have still left his DNA on her.
Still going with Sexual Sadist that had not only had rape in his plan, but murder too.

If it is true, the neighbor could smell a fire, then it was big enough to be detected from a distance. It is possible he lit it smaller, due to the drought, thinking it would do what he wanted, but for some reason it did not increase fully as he expected.

Secondly, I think it is safe to say he was trying to get rid of DNA, as just making burn marks on her, would not have been detected like that, if it was.

Lastly, with that kind of risk to get rid of DNA with houses so close, when he is likely not in the system, points to him being from the immediate area/neighborhood. Again, someone from out of town or out of state, would be very difficult to track down if not in the system. I suspect the person would not go through that kind of risk to get rid of DNA unless worried of a connection from being so nearby.

 

[Kickoff61]

If he is from the immediate area, it seems likely he is not someone people would suspect. Not someone obvious. And, if doing this as brazen as it is, indicates he may have a history of crime, but been able to avoid getting caught which would also explain why he is not easily suspected. He has the ability to appear normal or even a front of a normal life.

 

[Kickoff61]

Which would also explain why she may have trusted him to a degree, even if not knowing him well , but seen him while running before.

 

[Rocky1]

I don't think that would hold up on court at all. How would you prove a guest to his house didn't belong to that DNA?

By the time it goes to court, the proof is already there.
The only thing collecting DNA from the trash is going to show, is, probable cause. Once that is established, the judge issues a warrant to obtain a DNA sample directly from that person.
If the judge thinks it belongs to a guest, and doesn't think there is enough probable cause for a warrant, then LE is going to get the DNA anywhere else in public by following him around, and, unless he is sealed in a hermeticly sealed hazmat suit, they will get it.
I doubt they are going to continue riding around Princeton, randomly doing a DNA dragnet.

 

[Rocky1]

It would explain the ballsy kill site. After having a cab driver ask me questions you only ask if you're hoping someone doesn't have family around and wouldn't be reported missing because you plan to do something and even going as far as to ask a weird question about if I live alone before being near my home I now wonder if there is a possibility she took a can often enough ever to have a stalker via that. I highly doubt that but my mind went to this case and others I follow and especially when I saw the cab drive past a few times after..also she likely ran when he tried that so that means he's fast and strong if he was able to catch her

Interesting point about the cab driver.
Unless I missed something, we have no clue how VM got from Worcester to Princeton, and back.
For all we know her Mom/Uncle/Aunt played Bingo on Friday nights and weren't around to pick her up, and she may very well took a cab/uber back and forth.
Even if she only did it once, that could have planted the thought in the guys mind, and just in conversation during the ride, she may have told him she jogged before she went home etc.
I'm not saying that is the case, but there is no reason it can't be.
Good thought.

 

[ForensicMass]

This in all likelihood has nothing to do with it but he did grow up within miles of the crime scene. Jefferson is a section of Holden and for some reason has its own post office and zip code/ mailing address. And Holden of course is next to Princeton.

This man went on a lone hike in winter, on xmas eve in NH and his body was found diseased with adequate gear. It also says he was experienced ... which makes me wonder what supplies someone like that may carry on them in a regular basis. He was also the same age as VM.

https://www.google.com/amp/boston.c...r-26-dies-in-new-hampshire/amp/?client=safari

I can offer something on this. He was found at bond cliff, one of the more remote peaks in the whites. I ran a route that crosses this peak in June. One thing I can say, it's very doubtful he would have a torch for the trip. Experienced hikers and runners taking this route travel as lightly as possible. I don't know where he started off from, but in my route, in summer, you need 3 liters of water to make it to the first point where there's a fill up, 17 miles in. He probably wasn't heading that far, and he was doing it in winter which is another animal altogether. My best guess as to his gear - definitely something to start a fire (most likely a lighter AND maybe flint and steel as a backup), A water purificAtion method - like a filter, iodine tablets, or ultraviolet pen. Lash light, Ice climbing tools like an axe, and crampon metal spikes for his hiking boots. Ski poles also very probable. Hiking pack. Camel back for water.

 

[Rocky1]

how do we know in hindsight her body would have been found anyway?

Respectfully that feels more like an opinion than a fact.

Also given the draught we were in all summer...if he wanted those woods to go up in flames I think he would have at the very least started a fire which would have easily grown large enough for the FD to take notice.

But he didn't. And other then a neighbor smelling smoke, the fire was never very large as is evident by the fact it went out before it was found.

So I do not in any capacity believe his intentions where to cover his tracks with a Forrest fire.

The reason that we know in hindsight that her body would have been found is because the dogs tracked LE to her body.
It wouldn't have mattered if her body was buried or not, she still would have been found. That's a fact.
How do you know he didn't try to start a fire big enough for the FD to notice? Just because it went out doesn't mean he didn't try.
Respectfully, that seems more like an opinion than a fact.

 

[ThinkHard]

I can offer something on this. He was found at bond cliff, one of the more remote peaks in the whites. I ran a route that crosses this peak in June. One thing I can say, it's very doubtful he would have a torch for the trip. Experienced hikers and runners taking this route travel as lightly as possible. I don't know where he started off from, but in my route, in summer, you need 3 liters of water to make it to the first point where there's a fill up, 17 miles in. He probably wasn't heading that far, and he was doing it in winter which is another animal altogether. My best guess as to his gear - definitely something to start a fire (most likely a light AND maybe flint and steel as a backup. A water purificAtion method - like a filter, iodine tablets, or ultraviolet pen. Ice climbing tools like an axe, and crampon metal spikes for his hiking boots. Ski poles also very probable.

I wasn't suggesting he took a torch on his hike. I was suggesting that perhaps it along with other outdoor gear might be something he could have in his car at any given point.

 

[ThinkHard]

By the time it goes to court, the proof is already there.
The only thing collecting DNA from the trash is going to show, is, probable cause. Once that is established, the judge issues a warrant to obtain a DNA sample directly from that person.
If the judge thinks it belongs to a guest, and doesn't think there is enough probable cause for a warrant, then LE is going to get the DNA anywhere else in public by following him around, and, unless he is sealed in a hermeticly sealed hazmat suit, they will get it.
I doubt they are going to continue riding around Princeton, randomly doing a DNA dragnet.

I was thinking more in terms of hold up in order to get a supeona for an official DNA sample.

 

[femalejogger]

Hey just throwing this out there...but what if they have reports that VM was seen in a dark SUV around town at some other point, and then they have reports with a vehicle of similar description being seen near the murder sight on the day she was murdered? Maybe that's could explain why they seem so sure it's connected yet we can't wrap out heads around why it would be there long enough to stand out so much in their theory.

I have been thinking along the same lines - that the SUV connection is more attenuated than "a dark SUV was parked on BSR during the timeframe of the murder." Perhaps Mom recalled an earlier incident involving a dark SUV, or a dark SUV was caught on a couple of video cameras a day or two earlier, or another runner/walker reported a noteworthy incident involving such a vehicle. Whatever it was, LE thought it was sufficient to try to tie the SUV to the scene.

 

[Rocky1]

I think it was someone close by, who does not have to volunteer dna, so is safe, add long as they stay clean with the law. This, to me, points to a long , tedious path to conviction. Not one they would jeopardize by making any mistakes, in gathering evidence that are not iron clad.

I agree.
Someone that lives close, but not real close.
Someone that didn't have his DNA in the system, but, wanted to destroy evidence so if he is ever arrested in the future, his DNA wouldn't be in the codis.

 

[ForensicMass]

I wasn't suggesting he took a torch on his hike. I was suggesting that perhaps it along with other outdoor gear might be something he could have in his car at any given point.

I understand. I'm just saying I cant think of anything specifically that he would have in his car because he did these kinds of activities that would tie him to the crime. Beyond what might be in anyone's car.

 

[Rocky1]

I have been thinking along the same lines - that the SUV connection is more attenuated than "a dark SUV was parked on BSR during the timeframe of the murder." Perhaps Mom recalled an earlier incident involving a dark SUV, or a dark SUV was caught on a couple of video cameras a day or two earlier, or another runner/walker reported a noteworthy incident involving such a vehicle. Whatever it was, LE thought it was sufficient to try to tie the SUV to the scene.

Good thought, but I think the way it was worded was that "A dark SUV was spotted around the time of her murder, parked along BSR near where her body was found."

 

[ForensicMass]

Good thought, but I think the way it was worded was that "A dark SUV was spotted around the time of her murder, parked along BSR near where her body was found."

I believe that is correct as well. To their point, there may have ALSO been other info about it, but I don't know that it would be needed, since I think It is under suspicion purely by being seen at the crime seen around the time of the crime.

 

[Rocky1]

Yes it's shocking and hard to believe no one heard anything. Which is part of the reason I wonder if knowing the perp is part of how he either got her in a car, or down that path without noise....one way would be if she went willingly to talk.

And then for no one to hear the struggle....makes me wonder like you if it took place somewhere else...and there for it became easy to bring her down the path without her screaming.

I'd imagine LE must have some clue...trackers can tell if people walking down a path or if just one person did....they can tell if something was dragged or if there was a struggle....I know it rained 2 days later effecting much of ''tis evidence perhaps before "experts" got there...but I'd think there would be extensive photos to reference.

If she was ambushed from behind, hit in the head, and incapacitated, that would answer why she didn't scream, and nobody heard the struggle.
I would think that 2 days later before it rained they had all the evidence with the exception of what little they were looking for when they came back later. I can't say for sure, but I think when they came back, they were looking for something specific.

 

[Rocky1]

I believe that is correct as well. To their point, there may have ALSO been other info about it, but I don't know that it would be needed, since I think It is under suspicion purely by being seen at the crime seen around the time of the crime.

True, and I also think that if VM was riding around in a dark SUV, driven by someone that she knew that someone would have known about who that person would be, besides her.

 

[ThinkHard]

Good thought, but I think the way it was worded was that "A dark SUV was spotted around the time of her murder, parked along BSR near where her body was found."

Yes that is the reason they gave publicly but it doesn't mean it's the only reason they are interested.

 

[ThinkHard]

If she was ambushed from behind, hit in the head, and incapacitated, that would answer why she didn't scream, and nobody heard the struggle.
I would think that 2 days later before it rained they had all the evidence with the exception of what little they were looking for when they came back later. I can't say for sure, but I think when they came back, they were looking for something specific.

Yes ambushed from behind explains why no one heard her, still I don't find that scenario to be most likely...he'd still have to do that and get her out of sight before anyone saw him and I think that would have been an unlikely plan.