MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #6

[ThinkHard]

Oh sorry just wanted to respond to someone's question from a few days ago...regarding the one way driver....yes I think it's very very weird and it would be surprising to learn they aren't connected at all in some way....maybe he was just distraught over her passing, maybe he knew who did it or somehow got ropped into helping or disposing of evidence. Perhaps he was ropped into help...but didn't know what he was helping with ... and when her body was found and he connected the pieces he couldn't live with the guilt nor turn the person in? .... I dunno, not saying it's anyone of those just opening up lots of different possibilities.

What I have heard though is that he has been ruled out as a suspect via DNA. I share that to be thorough, but for the sake of clarity I did hear that second hand but the source is LE (local to his town).

 

[compassionate]

Thank you for great posts, Think Hard. I would think if LE suspected someone who refused DNA they would try to get an abandoned sample from him, and if it matched that would be grounds for a warrant. Just my opinion.

 

[ThinkHard]

Thank you for great posts, Think Hard. I would think if LE suspected someone who refused DNA they would try to get an abandoned sample from him, and if it matched that would be grounds for a warrant. Just my opinion.

I've heard of LE doing this in the past, the Charlottesville rapist specifically comes to mind...but it was always my understanding that this was actually more complicated to do and use then one would think and also can be quite time consuming. I don't think they can go through his trash without a warrant....and to prove it was his they would have to witness him using it and then collect it before It could be compromised....otherwise it could always be argued it was cross transfer.

In the Cville case they followed him around for quite a while before they could collect a sample. I think they finally collected it off a cup he disposed of from a fast food restaurant.

So maybe they are working on that angle too...who knows.

 

[ThinkHard]

My mistake it was the straw.
http://www.readthehook.com/81568/news-guilty-charged-four-life-sentences-serial-rapist

 

[Kickoff61]

Very good observations. That is what I was thinking about the guard rail. When you think about it, a vehicle on that side of the road approaching her running, would have to time it just right at the end of the guard rail , at that location.

 

[Kickoff61]

I also questioned earlier on whether someone refused the voluntary DNA , because that would stall things, yes.

 

[Kickoff61]

What you describe is very close to a house. Brazen in broad daylight on Sunday afternoon was already an issue. But, that is even more so!

 

[Kickoff61]

There is also a driveway just South of the path location , just before you get to it, on the other side of the street, very close on google map. The more the area is looked at, the more it seems this person was very quick there. (almost too quick for everything done in this) I am not convinced she wasn't put there for instance. It can go either way though, but ...someone could have come right out of that driveway and seen the vehicle parked just beyond the guard rail. It is still my opinion, something could have happened quick and then person left and came back quickly in vehicle , or happened somewhere else nearby and then she is put there quickly with vehicle, not wanting to have her in the vehicle longer distance that day, and various reasons. It really can't be said that either option is too risky, when people are speculating someone parked a vehicle there throughout the duration of everything so close to houses. That is no less risky.

 

[Kickoff61]

Whatever way this went, it appears the person is very confident with the area. Close. It is easier to understand speculated theories by looking at the street, the location and the area on the map. Or when someone provides photos , as Thinkhard did.

 

[Kickoff61]

In addition, it seems hard to believe that it would be someone adjacent to the property, leaving her that blatantly practically on their property. But it wouldn't be hard for someone nearby in the area to go back and forth. Close by, but just enough distance away to divert matters and look like it all came from one of those houses right there.

 

[ForensicMass]

ThinkHard........Thanks for all the legwork. Merry Christmas.

Regarding your assessment about how she was left, and the apparent lack of planning, tools etc. I couldn't agree more. If it was someone who planned to use this particular spot, I never could reason why they wouldn't have figured out where they would hide the body. They could have had a pre-dug hole out there somewhere, pretty easily, and maybe bought some time. None of it makes sense to me except for as you say, an unplanned crime at that location, which would also explain why a vehicle was seen along the road. As this is another element that to me seems like no planning person would incorporate into their plan.

 

[ForensicMass]

One last thing I have been thinking about....as they look into people...be they neighbors etc...if say they looked into the guy with a driveway 350ft from the crime site...but they have zero evidence linking him to this....and he refuses DNA .... so until they had enough evidence, not just circumstantial evidence to force him to give DNA...there not much they can do right?

What I mean is even if they had a few circumstatially suspicious people on their list, if those people don't willingly give up their DNA...doesn't LE kind of have its hands tied until they have enough for a supeona?

They can tail the suspect and wait for them to dispose of something which may have DNA. Like a cup or cigarette.

 

[ForensicMass]

I've heard of LE doing this in the past, the Charlottesville rapist specifically comes to mind...but it was always my understanding that this was actually more complicated to do and use then one would think and also can be quite time consuming. I don't think they can go through his trash without a warrant....and to prove it was his they would have to witness him using it and then collect it before It could be compromised....otherwise it could always be argued it was cross transfer.

In the Cville case they followed him around for quite a while before they could collect a sample. I think they finally collected it off a cup he disposed of from a fast food restaurant.

So maybe they are working on that angle too...who knows.

Disposed trash does not require a warrant. But as you say, it would really need to be something they knew he used (witnessed him use or otherwise prove he used ) to make an arrest

 

[Kickoff61]

It seems clear, if it is his dark SUV, whether he used the vehicle part of the time or parked the entire time, he wanted to leave her there and not take her in that vehicle elsewhere.

 

[Rocky1]

Disposed trash does not require a warrant. But as you say, it would really need to be something they knew he used (witnessed him use or otherwise prove he used ) to make an arrest

I agree. Once your trash is placed at the end of your driveway on town property, it no longer belongs to you.If I was LE canvasing that neighborhood after the crime happened, and an abutting neighbor refused to provide DNA, rather than concentrate on driving all over Princeton doing a DNA dragnet, I'd concentrate on that person. If LE collects a cup, and it's only a man and his wife living there, and the DNA says it was a man, I think that would narrow it down enough to obtain a warrant to collect another DNA sample.

 

[Rocky1]

ThinkHard........Thanks for all the legwork. Merry Christmas.

Regarding your assessment about how she was left, and the apparent lack of planning, tools etc. I couldn't agree more. If it was someone who planned to use this particular spot, I never could reason why they wouldn't have figured out where they would hide the body. They could have had a pre-dug hole out there somewhere, pretty easily, and maybe bought some time. None of it makes sense to me except for as you say, an unplanned crime at that location, which would also explain why a vehicle was seen along the road. As this is another element that to me seems like no planning person would incorporate into their plan.

We know in hindsight that her body would have been found anyway, even if she was buried, and he may have too.
Setting that aside, the Hillside Stranglers left their victims where they could be found easily, and they planned in advance on killing them.
I know it was discussed before that if he wanted his victim found, he would have left her along the roadside, and I agreed, but, maybe if it was dark, he may have done just that but didn't want to be seen dragging her back to the roadside.
The Hillside Stranglers thought they were smart enough not to get caught, and were cocky, taunting LE, and maybe this guy is too.
Just a thought.
My thoughts are that he wanted those woods to go up in fire, destroying all of the DNA, so he didn't care about her being found, and was in a rush to get away.
He may have been smart enough to know that even if she was buried, he could have still left his DNA on her.
Still going with Sexual Sadist that had not only had rape in his plan, but murder too.

 

[Evey]

We know in hindsight that her body would have been found anyway, even if she was buried, and he may have too.
Setting that aside, the Hillside Stranglers left their victims where they could be found easily, and they planned in advance on killing them.
I know it was discussed before that if he wanted his victim found, he would have left her along the roadside, and I agreed, but, maybe if it was dark, he may have done just that but didn't want to be seen dragging her back to the roadside.
The Hillside Stranglers thought they were smart enough not to get caught, and were cocky, taunting LE, and maybe this guy is too.
Just a thought.
My thoughts are that he wanted those woods to go up in fire, destroying all of the DNA, so he didn't care about her being found, and was in a rush to get away.
He may have been smart enough to know that even if she was buried, he could have still left his DNA on her.
Still going with Sexual Sadist that had not only had rape in his plan, but murder too.

I also think he wanted to have it catch fire and likely knew if he sat there digging a hole someone would see him and wanted to get in and out as fast as possible and maybe calculated how. If it was one of those very close houses they could easily walk back to get what they needed especially if they're married and want their wife assuming they're home. Could the car have been parked blocking the site up the carte path? So that the house across and passing cards wouldn't see? There's always if he took her there did it in his car then burned the body out where she was found so that it came off like some crazy person with a thing for fire. If I was the cops and someone refused DNA I would want to go do other houses just so they didn't suspect being onto him and in hopes to test a relatives DNA and er a result that way

 

[Aleph]

It seems clear, if it is his dark SUV, whether he used the vehicle part of the time or parked the entire time, he wanted to leave her there and not take her in that vehicle elsewhere.

Or maybe he only wanted her alive and when she fought him to the death, he left her there. It could be a failed abduction, is what I'm getting at.


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[ThinkHard]

There is also a driveway just South of the path location , just before you get to it, on the other side of the street, very close on google map. The more the area is looked at, the more it seems this person was very quick there. (almost too quick for everything done in this) I am not convinced she wasn't put there for instance. It can go either way though, but ...someone could have come right out of that driveway and seen the vehicle parked just beyond the guard rail. It is still my opinion, something could have happened quick and then person left and came back quickly in vehicle , or happened somewhere else nearby and then she is put there quickly with vehicle, not wanting to have her in the vehicle longer distance that day, and various reasons. It really can't be said that either option is too risky, when people are speculating someone parked a vehicle there throughout the duration of everything so close to houses. That is no less risky.

This is true there is a driveway closer but that house is set very very far back and can barely be seen from the road even with no foliage. The house on the same side but closer is much much closer.

But yes given the location it does and has from the beginning made me wonder if that was just the dump site....and it was chosen along her running route intentionally so that no one would go looking elsewhere.

 

[ThinkHard]

ThinkHard........Thanks for all the legwork. Merry Christmas.

Regarding your assessment about how she was left, and the apparent lack of planning, tools etc. I couldn't agree more. If it was someone who planned to use this particular spot, I never could reason why they wouldn't have figured out where they would hide the body. They could have had a pre-dug hole out there somewhere, pretty easily, and maybe bought some time. None of it makes sense to me except for as you say, an unplanned crime at that location, which would also explain why a vehicle was seen along the road. As this is another element that to me seems like no planning person would incorporate into their plan.

I agree. Unplanned in many ways seems the most likely.
But did she end up meeting up with someone she knows and things went bad quick? Or was she spotted by a prawler?

Where they planning to do it? Just not that day?

Could someone who knew her have driven by and pulled over to talk? Could they have gone into the woods to get off the road? Maybe some fight escalated?

What if she tried to leave and he tried to stop her? And something happens they are fighting she gets pushed down and is fighting back...maybe he gets a bloody nose and bleeds on her clothes (which is why he removed them), she scratches at an eye perhaps knocking out a contact (perhaps that's how LE knew he might have an eye injury)....he's trying to silence her and perhaps he strangled her, or breaks her neck, or bangs her head....or perhaps she bangs her head or breaks her neck just trying to get away....and now he has a dead girl on his hands....and panicks.....maybe he's married and he can't explain to his wife why he was there in the first place...all he has are some tools in his car...so he does what he can to cover it up.