MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #7 *Arrest*

[Rocky1]

Here you go.
Scroll down and you will see the statement from Christina Hager.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/vanessa...oyees-killing-while-jogging-in-massachusetts/

Just to add to the false reports, Fox news is reporting "Bond" set at 10 million dollars.
Not true. It is 10 million cash "Bail", and that means 100 million "Bond"

 

[Rocky1]

Given that he didn't presumably work around Princeton on Sundays, and given that Vanessa apparently didn't run always just on Sundays...rather than targeting Vanessa specifically, I would say that it's more likely that he's seen female runners on BSR before, and thought that the place he parked on BSR was the best spot (given the grass to the side of the road, and the cart path). BSR looks to me to be quite narrow in terms of places to park off to the side of.

If he was specifically targeting Vanessa, then I would think that he had prior knowledge of her running that day at that time. Given her irregular running patterns, this prior knowledge in my opinion could only have been the result of seeing her earlier that day or weekend and perhaps overhearing something, or seeing her in her running gear earlier that day. Both would be unlikely, which is why I'm leaning towards her being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Snipped:
in my opinion could only have been the result of seeing her earlier that day or weekend and perhaps overhearing something, or seeing her in her running gear earlier that day.

Those are my exact thoughts of how he thought she would be running Sunday afternoon. Not because he was her earlier that day,(still not convinced that she was jogging instead of running due to every LE report stating she "went out for a walk") But he saw her the day before, perhaps got finished at the Post Office, decided being a Saturday, wasn't in a rush to get back,hung around for a while, maybe spotted her while sitting in his truck parked in the parking lot, or maybe took a lunch break at the Mountain Barn, and spotted her while he was in that parking lot, circled around the same loop that she ran,(like the suspects did in Westboro) a few times until he discovered where she lived.
The reason I say this, is, yes, she took a few long weekends where he may have seen her jogging, but how many?
The only chance of her really seeing her, was on Saturday, because he doesn't work Sundays.

 

[Joshua M]

No evidence, just speculation.
I think that because she would have been screaming, and fighting him harder, if she wasn't stunned somehow.
That is why before this knowledge, I thought that he may have been hiding in that gully, to surprise her and ambush.
I wouldn't have thought she wound have came that close to him, as Mocity thought too, but after reading his hood was up, that would have reasoned why he was parked there in her mind.
I think if she saw the back of his head sitting there with no phone against his ear through the back window, she would have crossed the road, if not turned around.
Again,that is knowing what we know now. There wasn't a murder in that town in 30 plus years before this, (excluding the Dentist that was found not guilty of killing his wife) so there was really no reason to believe someone would have been waiting for her, especially in broad daylight.

That's a good point - there's little reason for her to be on guard and to avoid walking by the SUV...no murders in Princeton for 30 years, it's a sunny Sunday, and the SUV is there for a legitimate reason (it's having engine troubles). Plus her mind is probably half on returning to the excitement of New York that afternoon and her busy life as an executive. And, with the hood up, she probably can't see that's it's a youngish male with evil, angry eyes.

 

[Rocky1]

We don't know for sure, however, it is the thinking that the timeline makes it hard to believe that she could have been abducted on the way back, because he wouldn't have had time to complete the act before 3 pm.
Just to add, I thought that too, that she would be walking against the traffic, but if that was true, and it happened on the way back, she would have been on the other side of the road from the parked SUV, so no reason to cross the road.

Correction.
If it happened on the way back, and she was walking against traffic, that would have put her on the same side as the SUV.

 

[Cem75]

a few thoughts:

+ I do think that they were probably following him or he was on their radar for a while. it does seem extremely coincidental that their detective randomly saw a dark SUV and thought this might be the guy. unless, it was a very specific kind of dark SUV - like one with a particular sticker or damage or an unusual color like navy. seems like Ortiz's lawyer is also questioning their story of how they found him.

+ I think they probably had a list of everyone who pinged that cell tower during the time of the murder and he may have been on their radar but they needed to find the right time to try to get the DNA.

+ my dad (who is local and used to work in criminal justice) and i have always disagreed about who the killer would be. i thought it would be a random serial killer. he has always believed that it would turn out to be someone who knew vanessa - even very tangentially. he said to me "think about it, if you were out looking for jogging victims, princeton would be the last place you would go because you might see a jogger there once every 6 hours." I'm coming around to his way of thinking. perhaps he regularly saw her on weekends running and decided to stalk her. maybe he had bumped into her in town. maybe he saw her that weekend...

+ i've always been curious how they would know he had short or no hair. that is not something they could determine from DNA. was that info from the eye witness? or was there no hair found on her body and this is how they made that assumption?

+ there is no way this is his first crime. no way a rape, murder and burning in broad day light could be his first crime. terrifying to think what else he may have done. and kudos to the PD for catching him before he had the urge and chance to do it all again.

+ no case has ever hit so close to home for me. i am so relieved they caught this guy. my heart is breaking for her family. the fact that they have to look at this monster's face and hear about everything he did to her is overwhelming. i am sending them lots of love and good thoughts and i hope they will somehow be able to survive this.

all JMO, IMO, MMO

In my opinion he was not specifically stalking VM. I would not at all be surprised if he is connected to the other assaults in Northborough etc. I definitely think the eyewitness told LE about hair.

This all just makes me sick. Having a young daughter, it really makes me realize how some things cannot be sugar coated; you need to be aware this stuff happens and encourage mace or some form of self-defense. If he is proven guilty I wish there were a public stoning of this monster. I would go there and show him what an 80 MPH rock to the head feels like.

Its pretty bad to think Aaron Hernandez is/was half the monster this guy is. That's when you know you've reached Hell.


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[Rocky1]

If VM was that consistent then this is my calculation counting back from Aug 7th.
She visits the first and third week of the month.
If he arrived the first week in May, in the US, and it is two weeks before he gets a job, the first time he could have been in Princeton would be the last week in May. VM would not have been there.
Excluding the weekend of the murder, that means he could have only seen her 4 times, and that is if he saw her every weekend that she was there.

 

[Cem75]

Yet another component of this that adds weight to the fact that Vanessa may have been targeted is this:
Witness saw him parked at this particular location at 12:45 PM

consider that if he lived in Worcester at the time he would have had to drive from Worcester up to Princeton and of all places in the whole wide world he pulled over and pretended to be disabled there, right at that spot. Something about that does not add up UNLESS he had a belief that a suitable victim matching his "TYPE" would be coming by.

I don't think he knew of her. She lived in NY. Sure maybe she had a routine. Or maybe he waited for someone "more his type", but not her specifically.


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[Rocky1]

In my opinion he was not specifically stalking VM. I would not at all be surprised if he is connected to the other assaults in Northborough etc. I definitely think the eyewitness told LE about hair.

This all just makes me sick. Having a young daughter, it really makes me realize how some things cannot be sugar coated; you need to be aware this stuff happens and encourage mace or some form of self-defense. If he is proven guilty I wish there were a public stoning of this monster. I would go there and show him what an 80 MPH rock to the head feels like.

Its pretty bad to think Aaron Hernandez is/was half the monster this guy is. That's when you know you've reached Hell.


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Mace and stun guns are something I would think a jogger would not want to carry.Too clumsy, and a pain.The same reason a lot of people don't wear seat belts.
I get where you are coming from in regards to the stoning, however if his case is appealed and he dies before that appeal, he is not guilty of the crime he has been convicted for.
Just like Arron Hernandez.

 

[Cem75]

To the first question I simply can't reason it.

Early on I was fairly certain that if Shen was targeted it was by someone with SPECIFIC IMMEDIATE KNOWLEDGE OF HER IMMEDIATE PLAN to run that day. Which is why i thought her store visit at 12 or so could have played a role. Did he see her while she was out? DID SHE see him parked along the road on her return drive to home from the store? I still lean toward him seeing her THAT DAY before this attack, if we are assuming she was targeted.



2)as I understand the circumstance - He was not there for work on the day of the crime- is this further evidence to him targeting? Since he drove all that way when not on the clock?

Curious to hear your thoughts.

Look at the location. It had plenty of visibility in both directions. He prob knew of the cart path from his routes. He planned it based on the location, not based on VM specifically. This guy has done this before. May have been in PR, but not his first violent offense. IMO


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[Rainbowfashions1]

What if he somehow figured out her name & saw her running schedule. Though I may be giving this monster too much credit...

 

[Cem75]

Given that he didn't presumably work around Princeton on Sundays, and given that Vanessa apparently didn't run always just on Sundays...rather than targeting Vanessa specifically, I would say that it's more likely that he's seen female runners on BSR before, and thought that the place he parked on BSR was the best spot (given the grass to the side of the road, and the cart path). BSR looks to me to be quite narrow in terms of places to park off to the side of.

If he was specifically targeting Vanessa, then I would think that he had prior knowledge of her running that day at that time. Given her irregular running patterns, this prior knowledge in my opinion could only have been the result of seeing her earlier that day or weekend and perhaps overhearing something, or seeing her in her running gear earlier that day. Both would be unlikely, which is why I'm leaning towards her being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Yes, 100% accurate in my opinion. It was the location that was premeditated. She was the unlucky soul.


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[ForensicMass]

Yes, 100% accurate in my opinion. It was the location that was premeditated. She was the unlucky soul.


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Have you been to the location? Having been there I have to disagree. Location was chosen because he had seen people there before. If not her, certainly someone else. It's NOT that secluded. It's just one of the more secluded spots on her route. It was in the high 80s that day. Not many runners at all. Something is still not adding up. I'm interested to know approximately what time his phone first put him in the immediate area that particular day.

 

[Rocky1]

Look at the location. It had plenty of visibility in both directions. He prob knew of the cart path from his routes. He planned it based on the location, not based on VM specifically. This guy has done this before. May have been in PR, but not his first violent offense. IMO


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I agree he has done this before in PR.
PR is poor, and having a hood up on a broken down car may be a normal thing to see, however, ask yourself, when was the last time you saw a hood up on a car along the side of the road?
I think that may have sealed his fate. The Witness focused in enough to see that he had a phone, thinking he was broke down, and was about tostop to see if he needed help.
I posted in a previous post that I would have stopped too.
I am not saying that the hood being down, someone would have not noticed the SUV parked, but I do think having the hood up drew more attention.

 

[Emb72]

When I was trying to sort out in my head what a Hispanic guy would be doing for work in Princeton I really could not come up with anything that I felt was correct. I felt like if he was a member of a work crew like a landscaping crew or a roofing crew, that someone would have been aware of that group of people working on their neighbors house or seeing the trucks. None of that made any sense to me.

But now when I go back and analyze what the DA said it becomes eerily obvious -
dAs exact words were that this was someone who "was familiar with the broad geographic area". Who fits the profile better than a delivery driver ????!
It was right under my nose

We did talk about it ForensicMass. If it wasn't for you I would never have brought up a courier!!

 

[ForensicMass]

I agree he has done this before in PR.
PR is poor, and having a hood up on a broken down car may be a normal thing to see, however, ask yourself, when was the last time you saw a hood up on a car along the side of the road?
I think that may have sealed his fate. The Witness focused in enough to see that he had a phone, thinking he was broke down, and was about tostop to see if he needed help.
I posted in a previous post that I would have stopped too.
I am not saying that the hood being down, someone would have not noticed the SUV parked, but I do think having the hood up drew more attention.

Totally agree. On the other hand. A Hispanic guy in Princeton sitting outside his car in any condition, twiddling his thumbs is pretty noticeable.

 

[Rocky1]

Yes, 100% accurate in my opinion. It was the location that was premeditated. She was the unlucky soul.


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I think if he was looking to pick a spot, he would have had more of a chance in a State Park, or a secluded running trail, over BSR.

 

[Cem75]

Have you been to the location? Having been there I have to disagree. Location was chosen because he had seen people there before. If not her, certainly someone else. It's NOT that secluded. It's just one of the more secluded spots on her route. It was in the high 80s that day. Not many runners at all. Something is still not adding up. I'm interested to know approximately what time his phone first put him in the immediate area that particular day.

I drove by when I was in the area a couple of months ago.


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[Cem75]

I still cannot shake the Facebook profile page I called in as a "tip". I posted about it first December 22. It was a page using her name but the user registered as a male -- "Vanessa Marcotte changed his profile photo" was what caught my eye.

I mentioned there were some random photos of video game characters. I really really want to say one of them resembled an angel from Fallen Angels game. Pretty creepy based on his name.

The profile is no longer being published. Just wonder if he publised it, did he delete after the first visit by the cop when he "wasn't home".

Why could this be important? Well, it may be worth looking into because I think one of the questions you complete is "language". If he registered the account as "English" then that defense attorney can pound sand ...


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[Rocky1]

I drove by when I was in the area a couple of months ago.


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It's a great road to jog on, because it is wide with space on the outer sides of the white line along the road. Same as riding a bike, which is one reason I thought he may have been on one, however..
Add the temp that day of 87* into the equation, and I don't see many joggers out on that day. VM included. That's why I say she was walking.

 

[Joshua M]

What do people think about the strength of the case? The DNA, if obtained legally, seems to be very strong. There is also the phone record placing him in the general area that day (unlikely that he had good reason to be in Princeton if he wasn't working that day). Less strong are the witness accounts - the witness could not it seems provide enough info even for a sketch of Ortiz and neither it seems could he provide the exact make of the vehicle, let alone any unique features. All told, without the DNA, this case would seem to be fairly weak. For that we say, well done Vanessa. Though hopefully they have other evidence which they have not yet divulged.