GUILTY MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #8 *Arrest*

[Rocky1]

He use Deet to burn her feet.Deet is highly flammable.

That could very well be, but this is my thought.
Where they found Gasoline traces in her hair piece, and on her clothing, I doubt he used both Deet and Gas. I would think if he used Deet to burn her, they would have found traces on her face and hands as well as her feet.
I think she applied the Deet before she left the house, because the tics are so heavy around central mass. If she was using the Deet for mosquitos I think they would have found it on more places higher up on her body as well. I will guess she applied it to her socks.

I don't believe there was a secondary crime scene.
If you read the article Trooper Par wrote that in as "Preliminary Observation" meaning he wrote that before the investigation was complete or at the very beginning.
If you follow the timeline, along with the witness statements, his vehicle was parked on BSR at 12:45 through 2:05. Her phone pinged at the same area at 2:12 at the time it was "powered down". If she left home between 1:00 and 1:15, and his SUV is parked 1/2 mile away, that means he had her in his SUV for almost an hour sitting on the side of BSR, powered down her phone, then drove the 5 miles to the gas station, bought the gas with her in the SUV, assaulted her, killed her someplace else, then brought her back to the same place her abducted her. As has been discussed many times , with all of the places in Princeton to dump a body, to me anyway, it doesn't make sense he would have returned so close to her home to burn her.
I may be wrong, but I thing Trooper Par wrote that before they put the timelines together with the witness statements.
We now know he drove back south on BSR to Wachusett St. to Main St. Rutland to buy the gas. He would not have bought the gas on his way back to Worcester, because it's not along the way.
I think he drove to Rutland, bought the gas, drove back to BSR, and burned her. Nobody saw his SUV parked there during that time frame.
Now the question is.... Where did he come up the gas can? Was it inside the SUV? Why would he have an empty gas can inside a closed up SUV on an 87+ degree day? I would think empty or not, the fumes would have been strong riding around with that can for no reason.
Did he put the gas can in the SUV with the intention of burning her before hand? If so, why didn't he put some gas in it before he got to BSR, unless he wasn't sure he would see her that day.
No traces of gas in the SUV by LE. Was he that careful not to spill one drop from the can onto the carpet in the rear of the SUV, or did he get rid of the carpet after?
Even if he got rid of the can in the woods and LE never found it (which I doubt), you would think some residue of gas would have been on the carpet after he put gas in it at the gas station. Even if he didn't spill any, just setting the can down to add the gas at the gas station, I would think would leave a small trace that forensics would catch.

Edit:
Just to add. Is AO a smoker? If not, how did he light the fire?
There was no mention of a lighter bought with the credit card.

 

[Madeleine74]

Simple: If he put the gas can inside or on top of another layer, like a plastic bag, in his vehicle, then it wouldn't leave any residue on the vehicle surfaces. Then he could have disposed of the gas can and whatever it was sitting on in his SUV and there wouldn't be any trace of it unless he had spilled it all over. Clearly he didn't spill that gas since no evidence was found.

He could have gotten rid of those items in any trash dumpster.

Since it was months to find and identify him, any fumes in his SUV that had been detectable would have long dissipated. He could have easily cleaned out his SUV in the many weeks and months after the murder.

No one will know what and how he was planning this crime unless he told someone the details or chooses to disclose it now. Outside of that those things will remain a mystery.

The important thing is they got him, his DNA was found on the victim, his SUV was spotted, and he is off the streets for what I believe is the rest of his life.

 

[Cem75]

If he had the can beforehand it would support the premeditation case, clearly. But I agree why not get gas beforehand?

Maybe she struggled so much (and so courageously) he was spooked about DNA trail and decided to get gas. Throwing the carpet away makes sense.


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[Rocky1]

If he had the can beforehand it would support the premeditation case, clearly. But I agree why not get gas beforehand?

Maybe she struggled so much (and so courageously) he was spooked about DNA trail and decided to get gas. Throwing the carpet away makes sense.


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I agree Cem.
I think burning her was an after thought too.
I was just trying to think why someone would have a gas can in the back of a closed up SUV on a hot day. The fumes would have been strong. If he was driving a pick up truck, that would be different.
The cigarette lighter would also support the premeditaion case, if he brought that with him. and is a non smoker.
Either way, it is felony murder (first degree).
There will be nothing to support an insanity defense, because burning the body after means he knew he did wrong and tried to cover it up.

 

[Cem75]

I agree Cem.
I think burning her was an after thought too.
I was just trying to think why someone would have a gas can in the back of a closed up SUV on a hot day. The fumes would have been strong. If he was driving a pick up truck, that would be different.
The cigarette lighter would also support the premeditaion case, if he brought that with him. and is a non smoker.
Either way, it is felony murder (first degree).
There will be nothing to support an insanity defense, because burning the body after means he knew he did wrong and tried to cover it up.

I am still confused about the second scene they were searching - I would find it hard to believe she was killed elsewhere, but some on this topic have noted there are houses pretty close by.


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[searunner]

Thanks weepingangel for posting the link to that article.

Rocky, excellent analysis. It does seem a quandary why he seems to have had a gas can with him, yet seems to have purchased the gas after he killed Vanessa. The gas can in auto could possibly indicate premeditation, though not necessarily. But, let's remember this monster is not the brightest bulb in the bunch, so his actions might not make sense to this largely intelligent group. I mean he was standing outside his vehicle in full view of passersby nearby where Vanessa's body would later be found! And he'd be more memorable than some non-descript white guy, given the demographics of the area. And it was really stupid to pay for the gas via a credit card, rather than by cash.

But let's thank goodness for the fact that he isn't Einstein, as his stupidity -- possibly partly due to narcissism -- is what did him in.

Really would love to know the family background/story, but that's something we probably won't ever know.

 

[Steleheart]

I am still confused about the second scene they were searching - I would find it hard to believe she was killed elsewhere, but some on this topic have noted there are houses pretty close by.


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I am unsure about what 2nd crime scene they meant. However and maybe it's because I still think the previous 2 attempts are related, but I have had a strong feeling that it was an attempted abduction gone wrong.
Vanessa did most of her running in NYC and safety would be a really big issue for her. Time and time again I hear or read the advice to never let an attacker get you in a car no matter what, just fight with all you have. The stark reality being that you may die right there but at least you will be found and possibly create a scene or at least some witnesses may take notice..
We know Vanessa put up a real fight, he and his SUV were seen by witnesses and she was found rather quickly, sad as it is.
Given that I always thought of the plausibility that he grabbed her, they fought next to the vehicle and after killing her he dragged her into the woods 100 feet.
That would be 2 crime scenes, primary being at the road.
LE knew from the get go that she put up a fight - the way they described how the killer would have scratches, cuts and bruises. Imagine how fierce it was since he tried to burn her hands and they still got his DNA from under her nails.

I just cannot understand the timeline with the purchase of gasoline. If he went all that way to purchase gas and come back why didn't he just douse her completely and be done with it. Maybe he was cognizant of the fact that the woods that day were a tinder box due to the drought we were in.

 

[Steleheart]

Let us not overlook the fact that even non-smokers often have a lighter if for nothing else but to light up a blunt.

JMO

 

[Indy Anna]

Let us not overlook the fact that even non-smokers often have a lighter if for nothing else but to light up a blunt.

JMO

I think cigarette lighters are typically carried by campers and hikers, also, for starting campfires. MOO

 

[Rocky1]

I am unsure about what 2nd crime scene they meant. However and maybe it's because I still think the previous 2 attempts are related, but I have had a strong feeling that it was an attempted abduction gone wrong.
Vanessa did most of her running in NYC and safety would be a really big issue for her. Time and time again I hear or read the advice to never let an attacker get you in a car no matter what, just fight with all you have. The stark reality being that you may die right there but at least you will be found and possibly create a scene or at least some witnesses may take notice..
We know Vanessa put up a real fight, he and his SUV were seen by witnesses and she was found rather quickly, sad as it is.
Given that I always thought of the plausibility that he grabbed her, they fought next to the vehicle and after killing her he dragged her into the woods 100 feet.
That would be 2 crime scenes, primary being at the road.
LE knew from the get go that she put up a fight - the way they described how the killer would have scratches, cuts and bruises. Imagine how fierce it was since he tried to burn her hands and they still got his DNA from under her nails.

I just cannot understand the timeline with the purchase of gasoline. If he went all that way to purchase gas and come back why didn't he just douse her completely and be done with it. Maybe he was cognizant of the fact that the woods that day were a tinder box due to the drought we were in.

You could be right as far as one crime scene being near the road, and the other in the woods, however...
If he attempted to rape her near the road, and also fought and strangled her near the road, that took some time. Fair to say about ten minutes? I'd say from traveling that road myself, at least a few cars are going to pass by within that time frame, and would have been spotted. If he killed her near the road, that's 5 minutes, but that means he attempted to rape her after he dragged her back into the woods, and she would have been dead while he was attempting to do so.
Judging from the investigation when they were canvassing the entire area collecting DNA samples etc. I don't think they had any particular house in mind as far as a secondary crime scene went.
I am thinking where she had a broken nose that he punched her in the face near the road, broke her nose, possibly knocked her out, then dragged her back into the woods leaving drag marks from her feet, along with a blood trail from her nose bleeding. Trooper Parr saw this and thought the body was dragged from a vehicle near the road, where she was unloaded from the vehicle, after she was murdered someplace else. (hence a secondary crime scene)Then he fought more when she came to, and was attempting to rape her and that's when he strangled her. (timeline from app, 1:30 to 2:12) then he powered down her phone at 2:12, drove the 5 miles to the gas station, got gas at 2:35, drove back, as you say, with the ground being so dry didn't want to set the woods on fire, so he used as little gas as he thought he should to try to destroy the DNA. carried the can back out of the woods and left.
Remember, his report was a "preliminary observation" meaning he could have written that part the very night she was found, long before a witness saw he saw the SUV parked there from 12:45-2:05.

Quote from the article:
[FONT=&amp]Preliminary observations indicate that there is a secondary crime scene where the assault and or murder most likely occurred,” Massachusetts State Trooper Robert D. Parr wrote in his 10-page affidavit.

Edit:
Just to add, I agree that there was no way VM was going to get in the SUV with him.[/FONT]

 

[Rocky1]

Let us not overlook the fact that even non-smokers often have a lighter if for nothing else but to light up a blunt.

JMO

I was thinking about the blunts too, and then I was thinking that drivers for Fed Ex get random drug testing so maybe he wasn't a weed smoker.
Then again he was a third party driver, and maybe Fex Ex don't random test.

 

[Rocky1]

Thanks weepingangel for posting the link to that article.

Rocky, excellent analysis. It does seem a quandary why he seems to have had a gas can with him, yet seems to have purchased the gas after he killed Vanessa. The gas can in auto could possibly indicate premeditation, though not necessarily. But, let's remember this monster is not the brightest bulb in the bunch, so his actions might not make sense to this largely intelligent group. I mean he was standing outside his vehicle in full view of passersby nearby where Vanessa's body would later be found! And he'd be more memorable than some non-descript white guy, given the demographics of the area. And it was really stupid to pay for the gas via a credit card, rather than by cash.

But let's thank goodness for the fact that he isn't Einstein, as his stupidity -- possibly partly due to narcissism -- is what did him in.

Really would love to know the family background/story, but that's something we probably won't ever know.

You bring up an interesting point about paying by credit card, vs cash.
Maybe he didn't have any cash on hand, and knowing how easy it would be to track a credit card, unless he has been living under a rock and doesn't known this, I am thinking this was not premeditated to the point he planned the murder part out in advance.

 

[Madeleine74]

Crime Scene 1: where he first grabbed her on the side of the road as she was running

Crime Scene 2: where her body was found



Premeditated vs Pre-planning

Pre-planning is not an element of a crime that has to be proved.

Premeditation does have to be proved. It can be established in mere seconds.

example: Death by Strangulation - it takes upwards of 4 min for the victim to die. The perp knows if he/she continues to cut off air supply, the person will die. They keep cutting off the victim's air, they have formed intent. That's premeditation.

 

[Fred52]

Curious as to why such evidence including a photo of the receipt would be released to the public long before a trial date is even set.

 

[Fred52]

Difficult to tell from Google Street View but it's odd to not be able to pay at the pump. I wonder if the cashier "Dawn" will be able to identify ACO.

 

[Rocky1]

Crime Scene 1: where he first grabbed her on the side of the road as she was running

Crime Scene 2: where her body was found



Premeditated vs Pre-planning

Pre-planning is not an element of a crime that has to be proved.

Premeditation does have to be proved. It can be established in mere seconds.

example: Death by Strangulation - it takes upwards of 4 min for the victim to die. The perp knows if he/she continues to cut off air supply, the person will die. They keep cutting off the victim's air, they have formed intent. That's premeditation.

Pre planning a murder by buying a shovel and a handgun a year before you commit a murder. That's premeditation as well.

 

[Rocky1]

According to this article, the reason they think there was a secondary crime scene is because her right shoe, articles of clothing, and her phone were not recovered.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...-day-vanessa-marcotte-death-article-1.3522460

[FONT=&quot]The victim’s right shoe, several items of clothing and her white Apple iPhone 6 have not been recovered, prompting authorities to believe the attack took place at a location different than where she was found, [/FONT]Mass Live [FONT=&quot]reported. The clothing include a pair of gray or black running shorts, woman’s underwear, a Dana Farber baseball cap and one Saucony Triumph shoe, size 11.

I think they got the model number of the shoe mixed up with the size.
Saucony Triumph makes a model 11.

If it was a size 11 she had big feet, unless it was one of his.


[/FONT]

 

[Rocky1]

Curious as to why such evidence including a photo of the receipt would be released to the public long before a trial date is even set.

The reason could very well be because LE thinks that AO acted alone, therefore the warrant wasn't sealed.
If there were future arrests planned, the judge may have sealed the record so any other suspects would not have a heads up therefore giving any suspects the inability to destroy evidence, or make up alibis etc.

 

[Rocky1]

Here's another article that reads VM was found face up wearing only a sports bra.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...nd-marcotte/05ORK2h3B5NpKvha8YXBYK/story.html

 

[searunner]

You bring up an interesting point about paying by credit card, vs cash.
Maybe he didn't have any cash on hand, and knowing how easy it would be to track a credit card, unless he has been living under a rock and doesn't known this, I am thinking this was not premeditated to the point he planned the murder part out in advance.

Yes, I agree. I think it was likely he planned to abduct/rape, but perhaps didn't plan the murder -- or, rather I should say, didn't plan to murder her when and where he did. Vanessa put up more fight than he expected, which may have threw him. Nonetheless, I still believe his lack of intelligence and likely narcissism come shining through -- he obviously didn't give much thought to a Plan B, so to speak. He should have realized he might need something or whatever and have had at least $5 in cash on him.

I think most of us who have been on the thread for a long while have long thought this was an attempted abduction gone wrong.

P.S. Rocky -- While it may not be relevant, the shoe size also grabbed my attention. Had same thought as you -- very hard to believe petite Vanessa wore an 11, though it's possible.