Found Deceased MA - Zachary Marr, 22, Boston, 13 Feb 2016 #1

[Safeguard]

Hi there!


New to the group, but I’ve been following this case since Saturday - it’s captured my attention. Often you hear of missing persons and right or wrong, your interest/concern is fleeting. This one is different, because I have children that age, and I’m somewhat familiar with the area in question.


Two things come immediately to mind for me. The first is the bar. Looking at it in Google Maps street view and ‘walking’ around the block, this place is huge! It’s an odd, triangular shaped building with what looks to be numerous entrances with signs over the doors. It wasn’t clear to me, looking at it in day view, which door was the actual “front” entrance. Late at night, hurrying to get outside, in the cold, (under the influence?), it would be easy, I think to lose your bearings and forget which door you came out. Is it possible he went back to a locked, unmonitored door that he thought was an entrance, and to him, that was, “I can’t get back in”? The Market entryway across the street is well lit, and maybe out of the wind. After you finished a smoke, it’s a logical place to stand while making a call.


Second, and apologies if I missed someone else pointing it out, but there are at least three other people standing in front of the storefront with Zach, in the photo taken through the front entrance. Perhaps he struck up a conversation with one or more of them? What is it about that spot that it functions as a gathering place that late at night? Was he trying to stay in a well lit area because he was apprehensive about something?


I just don’t see super inebriated here, and I don’t think he was booted. He’d be damned cold, certainly, and that might explain his demeanor. Under the influence of something other than alcohol, maybe, knowingly or unknowingly? Also, the long (and it is a hike) rambling trek to water doesn’t seem logical, either, just to take a leak – I never realized guys had such a fascination with peeing in the water!


My theory - somebody came along in a vehicle, saw he was cold, vulnerable, and offered him a ride or a chance to warm up, which he took. To where? A ride back to the train/subway station? God only knows.

Welcome Trilogy,
Great first post! I too am thinking foul play here. This was a smart kid. But he was desperately cold, and it looks like he knew he was in trouble. "Desperate people do desperate things. "

Like accepting help from a stranger...

 

[Safeguard]

I'm going to say this, and I really, really don't mean it as a criticism of the family. It's one of those sad mistakes. If my cousin were outside in 0 degree weather and snapchatted they won't let me back in, I would rise from my chair and be at the door in less than 15 seconds by the clock. These are people very, very familiar with the dangers of cold like Texans are very familiar with the dangers of heat. I don't know why it took so very long for them to settle up a bill, mill around, and finally get to the door at least 10 minutes after he said he was standing out with no coat in the zero degree weather.

This is something I'm sure they'll hurt about forever if he isn't somehow miraculously found alive and well.

Have you ever tried to *flee* from a jam-packed College nightclub, (Three levels, five bars Valentines day weekend!)?

It might be a noble thought that you would trample others, to bring a warm coat to your loved one, whom you believe to be standing outside, cold, but perfectly unharmed, however I don't think it would go over very well with management.

 

[Darcyline]

Yeah I actually think 10 minutes for more than one person to settle a tab and get their coats in that situation is really fast. Like, I have sat for a half hour before just trying to pay at a crowded insane bar during a holiday. I have drifted out of that lifestyle-too old.

I have a feeling they will find him the water and call it an accidental death. I am not sure I buy it. But, I guess without other proof there is nothing else they can do.
I actually tend to believe the bar too that he didn't try to reenter especially since they had video and the family openly supported them. I do think its possible he thought he couldn't re-enter or a bouncer yelled something at him as he left OR he even tried to enter another bar. I hope they are pulling video from literally every camera within the vicinity.

 

[cvaldez1975]

this makes sense!!! if he was hammered, he might have thought it was another door and was snapchatting "hey guys they wont let me in"

I think he thought the Market entrance was a pub entrance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jmoose]

This sounds so much like the disappearance of Shane Montgomery in Philly about a year or so ago. I really hope the outcome isn't the same.

 

[Safeguard]

Yeah I actually think 10 minutes for more than one person to settle a tab and get their coats in that situation is really fast. Like, I have sat for a half hour before just trying to pay at a crowded insane bar during a holiday. I have drifted out of that lifestyle-too old.

Snip

Crazy fast at the Bell In Hand. Here's a link to a typical Friday night crowd there. I read the young woman's account of insanely long lines just to move through the different levels inside the club!
https://www.google.com/search?q=bel...AUICSgD&biw=360&bih=559#imgrc=rHn1_mvvb4Fc6M:

 

[cdogstu99]

has no one else noticed what looks like a leg in the picture where his back is turned to the camera? on the left double door, top window, right side there looks to be a leg in black pants. I think the time stamp on that photo was 144... that means someone was there 6 minutes before his cousins came out. I'd attach the picture but I don't know how.

Definitely noticed this first time around. But i just noticed something creepy. Take a look to the left of Zach's head. Do you see what im seeing or have i had too much wine? Like a really creeepy bald looking guy. Maybe one of reasons Zach almost seems to be looking inside at something.

 

[cdogstu99]

Also just noticed something else. Look at the top right of picture. Someone likely a male standing with a pair of blue and white what look to be saucony shoes. That person must have seen where or what Zach was doing.

 

[cdogstu99]

 

[Trilogy]

Snip

Crazy fast at the Bell In Hand. Here's a link to a typical Friday night crowd there. I read the young woman's account of insanely long lines just to move through the different levels inside the club!
https://www.google.com/search?q=bel...AUICSgD&biw=360&bih=559#imgrc=rHn1_mvvb4Fc6M:

That's crazy! This should clear up doubts about how long it might take to settle up and get outside. It also explains why someone would send a text or snapchat to let friends know they were going outside - it must be really loud!

You have to wonder about capacity/fire codes as well, with crowds like this.

 

[Safeguard]

That's crazy! This should clear up doubts about how long it might take to settle up and get outside. It also explains why someone would send a text or snapchat to let friends know they were going outside - it must be really loud!

You have to wonder about capacity/fire codes as well, with crowds like this.

Right? And let's not forget the alcohol slows people down... I know, myself, in my youth, I've made what seemed like a quick trip to the ladies room and I come back out and find I was in there for 15 minutes or so...

I know we all wish there could be a do-over, and someone could have gotten to Zach with the speed of a snapchat, but the young people he was with family/friends, are not to be faulted, I am sure they moved on his message as quickly as possible, under the circumstances.

 

[CARIIS]

Hi Trigger/Safe!

Sometimes I amaze myself!! I joined in 2012. Just now want to catch up. So I start scrolling and scrolling and all of a sudden after 4 years a bolt of lightening struck!

to self:
"All I have to do is go to my "home page" and click "see more" on your last post before you went to sleep last night "

D U H !

boy oh boy what a dummy, to have that not hit earlier!!!!

 

[CARIIS]

You have to stop thinking of wide streets with square angles and open views where a camera monitoring the back loading dock, for instance, also shows who is walking by on the other side. That's just not how Boston is laid out. It's a maze, and even people who are quite familiar with it will take a wrong turn and find themselves in a place they didn't know existed.

So here are some pictures I found on the web. I think they're all public. If you click on them, you can enlarge them.

This is the back of the Bell in Hand looking toward the Union Oyster House, with several other taverns, pubs, and restaurants in the picture.

This is another side street looking toward the Union Oyster House (the biggest landmark). The street from Picture 1 is in the background. Notice the car pulling out from an angle and how similar the two streets are.

This is the holocaust memorial, with the Union Oyster House and pub row in the background, and the Public Market building just visible on the left. The Rose Kennedy Memorial Greenway and, um, I think it's Congress Street, is behind the camera.

This is the Boston Public Market. The trees on the right are the end of the Holocaust Memorial. The brick building with the letters on the roof ridge are about where the pubs are located, but I'm not sure which building. Probably the Union Oyster House.

I found this map of the area on a site about the Big Brother TV show. Apparently the Bell in Hand was featured in season 13. Notice in the inset picture you can see the Public Market building in the background. Notice also that the Bell in Hand's building is an odd shape, with a sharply rounded end that fits into a more or less triangular street corner. The pub has entrances on both sides and possibly in the back. If there's a camera on the back door of the Union Oyster House, it would not have a view past that corner.

Wow

Amaziing post, TY! Your open, You have to stop thinking of wide streets with square angles and open views .....

instanly struck me. That sure is exactly what I have been doing. Totally. As I am reading and learning , in the back of my head , as I am going, I am thinking , oh no, this is taking me back to suicide...

cause my distraction, (foul play), at its core is about the camera mysteries, but you did, effectivly , completly alter that.



I also have been thinking, we may never really know, even when body found, casue (if there is no overt violence) , how would a ME be able to determine, if someone walked in volutarily , or blackouk and accidently ended up there.

Like same as going of a bridge, fell or accident, injury patterns would be the same.

I suppose, the only helpful thing we might be able to get (I dont know tho what impact temperature would have) a BAC, which could put some perspective.

Time till disover I would assume immpacts this as well

Thanx again for your post!! Wildly informative!

 

[Safeguard]

Hey CARIIS!
I am eagerly awaiting the "lightning strike" that will show me how to post pictures, instead of just, links to pictures. :shame:

 

[CARIIS]

Hah, found a good one. This shows the Bell in Hand on the left, the Union Bar (part of Union Oyster House) on the right, and the water in the background. It also shows what the streets look like in winter. They were probably clearer when ZM went missing because we haven't had that much snow this year. But still not great.

WOW again! No idea it was that close. Boy are you heating up brains! That picture could be an oppsss fall, accident in.

I also had this notion that a lot of the water areas were fenced. Just from that angle, heck the steet looks like it just "goes into" the water!

I had sense water was like 8 blocks away , and I was thinking that long a walk in minus 9 with no clothes should/ could help (talking only about clearer thinking- like sober one up a bit - not medical problems with being in that temp without protction) . That notion took me back to foul play.....

Throw darkness into this picture and .........................

 

[CARIIS]

Now lets mix in this:

Hypothermia


" Signs and symptoms can include: no shivering, paradoxical undressing, complaints of loss of vision, inability to follow commands, inability to walk, muscle rigidity, decreased blood pressure, decreased heart rate, decreased respirations, dilated pupils, unconsciousness, and the appearance of death

http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/vertpaleo/aucilla12_1/hypothermia99.htm

 

[trigger]

Hey CARIIS!
I am eagerly awaiting the "lightning strike" that will show me how to post pictures, instead of just, links to pictures. :shame:

Me to !!

 

[Tabirey]

Hey CARIIS!
I am eagerly awaiting the "lightning strike" that will show me how to post pictures, instead of just, links to pictures. :shame:

If you're on mobile, you have to switch to full site mode, then you have the option to embed a url link picture or upload one saved on your phone. ..took me a bit to figure that out lol

 

[CARIIS]

Can see a camera top right in this picture. Right side is the back of Bell in Hand.

https://instagram.com/p/BBdb1HpDS7G/

OK, from the exact point of view of the guy in the foreground--what would that guy do (forward , turn around right or left etc) to get in front of Public Market??

ANd, in the other pic released , of him "walking: would that be talking him to Carbuff post of the water?

In the other pic, doorway , looking to right (sounds silly I know) would he be looking in the direction of the water or the other way?

And finally! From Cars post and the two main releases can you tell Carpool which enterence exit he might have exited from Bell in?

 

[Trilogy]

That blue that you can see isn't water. Closest water would be to the right, not straight ahead.

The two photos posted above by carbuff could very well explain it - he got turned around and returned to the wrong bar. Tried to get in, couldn't, doormen said he was full of it, trying to get "back" in. Would explain why he didn't show up on the Bell in Hand video. Goes to lighted area, calls family, waits for them, walks to keep warm, phone dies, etc. If he's like most 20-somethings, he'd be lost, literally, without his phone. Damn.