Madeleine McCann 3 year old missing in Portugal - Part 11

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I thought Websleths might like to know about the case of a Caroline Hogg, a Scottish child, who was abducted from a beach and killed. This case has always unnerved me as I had not realised that there were so many paeodophiles at the seaside.

This is from The Scotsman newspaper.... .....

'There is at least a partial truth in this. Immediately after Robert Black had abducted Caroline Hogg from Portobello beach, the police set up video cameras there to search for clues. The cameras recorded the presence of 34 known paedophiles on the beach in one day. It seems an incredible number. '

And you have to remember that it is a relatively small resort and doesn't record the number that were not known to the police.

Even if you suspect a person there is not a lot you can do. When I was on holiday happily reclining on a sunbed, watching my daughter swim in the deep end, I noticed a man on the hotel balcony video-ing the shallow end in which the smaller children swim for around 15 minutes.

He didn't wave at anyone, so I didn't think that he was taking a video of his family. The next day he was there again - same thing.

His behaviour was not against the law, so if I called in hotel staff - what would I accuse him of - as anyone is entitled to film their holiday hotel swimming pool? I only saw him twice, so I presumed that he'd gone home.

So maybe Mrs McCann had a similar sort of experience, especially since the police were asking for all photographs taken at the resort.
 
mrsmousemat said:
I thought Websleths might like to know about the case of a Caroline Hogg, a Scottish child, who was abducted from a beach and killed. This case has always unnerved me as I had not realised that there were so many paeodophiles at the seaside.

This is from The Scotsman newspaper.... .....

'There is at least a partial truth in this. Immediately after Robert Black had abducted Caroline Hogg from Portobello beach, the police set up video cameras there to search for clues. The cameras recorded the presence of 34 known paedophiles on the beach in one day. It seems an incredible number. '

And you have to remember that it is a relatively small resort and doesn't record the number that were not known to the police.

Even if you suspect a person there is not a lot you can do. When I was on holiday happily reclining on a sunbed, watching my daughter swim in the deep end, I noticed a man on the hotel balcony video-ing the shallow end in which the smaller children swim for around 15 minutes.

He didn't wave at anyone, so I didn't think that he was taking a video of his family. The next day he was there again - same thing.

His behaviour was not against the law, so if I called in hotel staff - what would I accuse him of - as anyone is entitled to film their holiday hotel swimming pool? I only saw him twice, so I presumed that he'd gone home.

So maybe Mrs McCann had a similar sort of experience, especially since the police were asking for all photographs taken at the resort.
Click to expand...
correct. every where you turn some sick pervert is waiting for you to let your guard down so they can abuse a child. i guess it is 1 of the reasons i was so angry with the parents from the start. as parents we must protect our kids from these men.not leave them at their mercy.
 
How long did Kate and Gerry stay in the apartment after Maddie went missing? It seems like it was weeks but I'm hoping one of you remember for sure.

I think these two articles are interesting:

Madeleine McCann's parents told not to leave

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...GAVCBQYIV0?xml=/news/2007/08/21/nmaddy221.xml

Gerry McCann Hits Out At 'Wild' Stories


Mr McCann said the family had no plans to leave Portugal at present and would not give up looking for Madeleine.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91210-1281363,00.html
 
I thought that sleuths might like to be reminded of the drawing produced from Jane Tanner's description of the abductor by the Portuguese police by someone who had seen it... All we know from it is that it appears to rule out bald, round-faced men and women.


EfitPortugalPA_228x280.jpg
 
SewingDeb said:
How long did Kate and Gerry stay in the apartment after Maddie went missing? It seems like it was weeks but I'm hoping one of you remember for sure.
Click to expand...

Hi SewingDeb,

I was just looking this up for someone else the other day...

They moved out of 5A (where Maddie vanished) the day after, May 4th.

See: http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2005320001-2007280253,00.html

"Maddie’s parents Gerry, 39, and Kate, 38 — who had been renting the apartment for their holiday — moved out the day after she was taken from her bed as they dined nearby."

I believe they moved into another apartment in the same complex where they then stayed for "weeks".

Regarding Gerry's visit to Edinburgh and his now wanting the media to stop paying so much attention to their case....:waitasec:

Sorry Gerry...too late....
 
Thanks Colomom. I was wrong then. Someone on another forum brought up that the cadaver dogs might not mean anything since so many others could have stayed in the apartment since the McCanns.

You're right that it's too late for Gerry to want media attention off the case. He started it rolling.
 
Texana said:
So now McCann thinks it's not necessarily to "personally bombard people daily with images of Madeleine" or something to that effect.

Does any parent of a missing child ever say that?
Click to expand...
I think the behavior of these parents will be best viewed in hindsight. After the case is solved it might be very educational to keep this behavior in mind, as to whether it points to innocence or guilt in the end.
 
SewingDeb said:
Thanks Colomom. I was wrong then. Someone on another forum brought up that the cadaver dogs might not mean anything since so many others could have stayed in the apartment since the McCanns.

You're right that it's too late for Gerry to want media attention off the case. He started it rolling.
Click to expand...

Actually SD...there is something to that contention...

From everything I have read I believe that the PJ did assume control of the apartment for a short time after the McCanns moved. I do not believe that dogs were used to search for evidence, other than for Maddie's scent, definitely not for cadaver scent. Remember, in the early days the PJ were operating on the abduction theory. The apartment was then released to other renters, how many, not sure, but some. The people who stayed in the apartment after the McCanns were all interviewed by the PJ and it was determined that none of them experienced a death while staying there. I would also assume that they checked back a ways and interviewed all that they could, including the owners, to also confirmed no deaths in the apartment.

At some later date (not sure when) the apartment was placed back into the control of the PJ and was searched more thoroughly, probably with local dogs, not sure, but with other forensics people for sure. There may or may not have been additional evidence collected at that time.

Not sure if it was then released again to renters, somehow I do not think so. The British dogs were called upon to do a more comprehensive search, this time for blood and cadaver scent. We know what was reported after that. I am not sure about when the apartment was sold, before or after the British dogs, but I think the dogs came after the reported sale. We do not know who bought the apartment, it has been speculated that perhaps it was a cover so that the PJ could have complete control and access to it.
 
mrsmousemat said:
I thought Websleths might like to know about the case of a Caroline Hogg, a Scottish child, who was abducted from a beach and killed. This case has always unnerved me as I had not realised that there were so many paeodophiles at the seaside.
Click to expand...
I never forgot this case either. Pure evil.
It was a very scary time until this killer was caught.
If I remember right this evil piece of sh/t travelled the country abducting young children. And I think Caroline, who was only 4 or 5 was his first known victim. There were others though. He was finally caught when a man noticed a young child suddenly disappear as she walked passed a parked van which then quickly drove off. He immediately called the police and thankfully the van was found in time to save this child. The poor little thing was found zipped into a sleeping bag. And when the police unzipped the bag they found her wet through and terrified.

I don't know if there are more paeodophiles today. I do know though that one is one too many.

And they do hang around wherever children play so that would definately include beaches.
 
docwho3 said:
I think the behavior of these parents will be best viewed in hindsight. After the case is solved it might be very educational to keep this behavior in mind, as to whether it points to innocence or guilt in the end.
Click to expand...
I think you are absolutely right. Food for thought.
 
I can't believe Gerry McCann. How many parents of missing children would love and pay dearly for the kind of media attention they are receiving for Madeleine? And now Gerry says it's not necessary to "bombard people with images of Madeleine", or something similar? Why is that? Why is it not necessary or desirable? I think Gerry's starting to feel a little uncomfortable.

imo. I hope and pray that Madeleine is found safe.
 
docwho3 said:
I think the behavior of these parents will be best viewed in hindsight. After the case is solved it might be very educational to keep this behavior in mind, as to whether it points to innocence or guilt in the end.
Click to expand...

Hindsight started the minute Maddie was found to be missing.

I'm sorry, but these parents will never be completely innocent, as they made the decisions that placed their children at risk repeatedly. Many other parents who left their children alone and had tragedy occur have faced far greater consequences, censure, and speculation than the McCanns.

That said, I hope and pray their child is returned to them.
 
Colomom, there is so much confusion about what happened when. It seems the McCanns were in and out of the apartment like jumping beans. Every time they went to some European city the PJ moved in to do more tests. And didn't we read that the apartment sale was a ruse to get them out of there for good so the PJ could move in and monitor their behavior?

Shazza said:
The parents are saying the media are circulating information which unfounded, it also says they are being accused of giving Madelaine too many sleeping tablets.

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/organgrinder/2007/08/the_father_of_madeleine_mccann.html
Click to expand...

This is unbelievable. At the conference Gerry McCann was asked what advice he would give to the family of 11 year old Rhys Jones, shot dead in Liverpool on Wednesday.

There is no comparison between the two. Rhys Jones was an 11 year old in the wrong place at the wrong time. His grieving parents can't even function as they watch the bottom drop out of their lives. No global media campaign, no million dollar fund, no worldwide tour. While the McCanns...
 
Juliana said:
I can't believe Gerry McCann. How many parents of missing children would love and pay dearly for the kind of media attention they are receiving for Madeleine? And now Gerry says it's not necessary to "bombard people with images of Madeleine", or something similar? Why is that? Why is it not necessary or desirable? I think Gerry's starting to feel a little uncomfortable.
Click to expand...

He is now doing/saying exactly OPPOSITE of the advice he was given from the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children during his campaign stop to Washington DC.
 
mrsmousemat said:
I thought Websleths might like to know about the case of a Caroline Hogg, a Scottish child, who was abducted from a beach and killed. This case has always unnerved me as I had not realised that there were so many paeodophiles at the seaside.

This is from The Scotsman newspaper.... .....

'There is at least a partial truth in this. Immediately after Robert Black had abducted Caroline Hogg from Portobello beach, the police set up video cameras there to search for clues. The cameras recorded the presence of 34 known paedophiles on the beach in one day. It seems an incredible number. '

And you have to remember that it is a relatively small resort and doesn't record the number that were not known to the police.

Even if you suspect a person there is not a lot you can do. When I was on holiday happily reclining on a sunbed, watching my daughter swim in the deep end, I noticed a man on the hotel balcony video-ing the shallow end in which the smaller children swim for around 15 minutes.

He didn't wave at anyone, so I didn't think that he was taking a video of his family. The next day he was there again - same thing.

His behaviour was not against the law, so if I called in hotel staff - what would I accuse him of - as anyone is entitled to film their holiday hotel swimming pool? I only saw him twice, so I presumed that he'd gone home.

So maybe Mrs McCann had a similar sort of experience, especially since the police were asking for all photographs taken at the resort.
Click to expand...

This brings up two ideas. First of all, we talked about pedophiles awhile back and how the UK sends theirs to Spain and Portugal to vacation. It was in a month ago in thread 8, posts 139-145.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1604210#post1604210

Second, I'm not an expert on pedophile practices, but the way I understand it from people who do know, it's been said that Madeleine most likely wouldn't have been targeted for abduction by one. Pedo gangs target and kidnap lower profile children who won't be missed, not an English girl on vacation on the Portuguese coast with her parents.
 
I feel so sad for Madeleine... first mom and dad selfishly left her alone and once she was gone they staged a media coup on a world stage scale that included tours to other countries and celebrity backings, while sincere foot-to-ground actions to actually find her have been few and far between. Heck, there aren't even posters out there with a good description of her to help the general public know what to exactly look for in regards of the child. She's just a face with an eye abnormality and name... that is all the parents seem to want us to go on, to find her... downloading her free missing poster supports that. Daddy is running a site in her name that is more about him and his monetary campain, while selling wristbands advertising his self-glorification website, and charging for the better "missing" posters... and now they want to scale back things. That poor child... she deserves better than this... far better than this.

This is my opinion... and I know many will not agree with it... but it's how I feel.
 
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