I think it is obvious in the beginnings to look at the parents, they do in nearly all cases. But these parents were declared to not be involved in the end. And many of those "haters" claiming they were involved are basing their assertions not on facts, but on outright lies (like claiming her DNA was found in the hire car etc). Thats what is terrible. If you really suspect soemone you should not need to make up lies to support your case.
Madeleine McCann found?
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fabgod
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Donjeta, I've looked for that statement, the problem is as far as I can see, that the files were obviously produced in Portuguese and then translated to english, so I presume there is licence in translation and interpretation.
From what I read, it seems to state that there is inconclusive evidence to proceed at this time,
(snipped from the link at bottom)
"In a final synthesis, based on facts, it seems to us that the following can be asserted:
- On the 3rd of May 2007, at around 10 p.m., at the Ocean Club, in Praia da Luz, Kate Healy - like her, her husband Gerald and their friends, while dining at the Tapas, did with a periodicity that has not been rigorously established - headed for apartment G5A, in order to check on her three children, who had been left there, asleep;
- She'd barely entered the apartment when she noticed that her daughter Kate had disappeared, not being in her bed nor in any other location inside the residence and that the bedroom's window and shutters were open;
- Then, Kate Healy ran to the restaurant, immediately alerting Gerald McCann and the other friends;
- Following that alert, the entire apartment was searched and rummaged by an indeterminate number of people, thus resulting in the contamination of traces, with irreversible and undetermined damage in terms of the acquisition of evidence;
- Immediately, intense and extensive terrestrial, maritime and aerial searches were launched, which lasted for several days, involving hundreds of people and equipment and means, as sophisticated and advanced as presently available;
- Several hundred people were heard, formally and informally, whose hearing was anticipated as being of interest for the clarification of the matter, thousands of pieces of information and suggestions were analysed, and tens of sightings and locations that seemed plausible were checked. Telephone interceptions were performed and the traffic data from thousands of telephone conversations was analysed and crossed, and many thousands of diligences of the most diverse nature were developed;
- The obliging cooperation and commitment of Police forces from many Countries, with a very special mention for the British police entities, was counted upon;
- Tests and analyses were performed in two of the most prestigious and credentialed institutions for this effect - the National Institute for Legal Medicine and the British lab Forensic Science Service -, whose final results did not positively value the collected residues, or corroborated the canine markings;
- Despite all of this, it was not possible to obtain any piece of evidence that would allow for a medium man, under the light of the criteria of logics, of normality and of the general rules of experience, to formulate any lucid, sensate, serious and honest conclusion about the circumstances under which the child was removed from the apartment (whether dead or alive, whether killed in a neglectful homicide or an intended homicide, whether the victim of a targeted abduction or an opportunistic abduction), nor even to produce a consistent prognosis about her destiny and inclusively - the most dramatic - to establish whether she is still alive or if she is dead, as seems more likely.
But therefore we do not possess any minimally solid and rigorous foundation in order to be able to state, with the safety that is requested, which was or were the exact and precise crime(s) that was or were practised on the person of the minor Madeleine McCann - apart from the supposed but dismissed crime of exposure or abandonment - or to hold anyone responsible over its authorship.
Finally, it should be underlined that this case, unfortunately, is not a police novel, an appropriate scenario for a "crime" that is tailored for the success of the investigative work of a Sherlock Holmes or a Hercule Poirot, guided by the illusion that the forces of law and justice always manage to re-establish the altered order, returning to society the peace and the tranquillity that were only accidentally disturbed.
The disappearance of Madeleine McCann is rather an implacable and intricate case of real life, which lies closer to the lucid narrative by Friedrich Duerrenmatt, - "The Pledge. Requiem for the police novel" - because reality and everyday life owe little or no obedience, most of the times, to logic.
Life's events do not conform to stereotyped novel-like schemes, it is rather the case that its outcome is often the product of chance or conditioned by accidental and unpredictable factors, and therefore, hard to envision.
The investigators are well aware of the fact that their work is not exempt of imperfection; they have worked with an enormous error margin, and what they have achieved is very little in terms of conclusive results, especially concerning the fate of the unfortunate child. Nevertheless, they always knew that action was necessary and in reality they acted intensively and with commitment, even at the risk of erring.
Nevertheless, anyone who feels unsatisfied about the epilogue of the investigations, will have the possibility to react against it, having the possibility of eventually changing that epilogue, by prompting diligences based on new evidence, as long as that person has the legitimacy to request them and the requested diligences are serious, pertinent and consequent. They may do so in three ways: by requesting the reopening of the inquiry, under article 279, number 1 of the Penal Process Code; by appealing hierarchically against this dispatch under number 2 of article 278, or in another case, under number 2 of article 279 of the Penal Process Code, or by requesting the opening of the instruction under article 287, number 1, item b, of the Penal Process Code.
Finally, it should be noted that an archiving decision may be a fair decision, although of the possible justice, and, especially, to underline heavily that the archiving of the present files does not equal a definite and irreversible closing of the process. This process, as long as the prescription deadline for the possibly committed crimes does reach its term, and if new evidence that justifies it, appears, can always be reopened, officiously or through the request of an assistant, again ordinate to a final decision of accusation or non accusation.
Therefore, after all seen, analysed and duly pondered, with all that is left exposed, it is determined:
a) The archiving of the Process concerning arguido Robert James Queriol Eveleigh Murat, because there are no indications of the practise of any crime under the dispositions of article 277 number 1 of the Penal Process Code;
b) The archiving of the Process concerning Arguidos Gerald Patrick McCann and Kate Marie Healy, because there are no indications of the practise of any crime under the dispositions of article 277 number 1 of the Penal Process Code.
Article 277 number 3 of the Penal Process Code is to be fulfilled.
Under article 214 number 1 item a) of the Penal Process Code, the coercion measures that have been imposed on the arguidos are declared extinct.
Portimão, 21.07.08
The Republic's Prosecutor
(José de Magalhaes e Menezes)
The Joint General Prosecutor
(signature)
(Joao Melchior Gomes)"
http://steelmagnolia-mccannarchives...12/pj-legal-summary-there-is-no-evidence.html
reading the rest of that report, it seems that they suspect death at the scene but at present have no way of validating that suspicion, THe PJ wanted to perform a re enactment of that nights events but the friends of the McCanns refused to cooperate.
badhorsie
Mouth operational, brain elsewhere...
Mrs Fenn's Statement
Mrs Fenns statement, taken in Praia da Luz on the 20th of August 2007:
Included in the files as a witness statement.
Being of British nationality and in spite of living in Portugal, does not have knowledge of the Portuguese language in its oral and written form, therefore a police interpreter is present, UEVE VAN LOOCK. Thus, according to the facts noted in the files, she says that she has lived in the apartment since 2003, which is located on the upper floor, immediately above the room from which the child disappeared.
She also refers to the day of the 1st May 2007, when she was at home alone, at approximately 22.30 she heard a child cry, and that due the tone of the crying seemed to be a young child and not a baby of two years of age or younger. Apart from the crying that continued for approximately one hour and fifteen minutes, and which got louder and more expressive, the child shouted ?Daddy, Daddy?, the witness had no doubt that the noise came from the floor below. At about 23.45, an hour and fifteen minutes after the crying began, she heard the parents arrive, she did not see them, but she heard the patio doors open, she was quite worried as the crying had gone on for more than an hour and had gradually got worse.
When questioned, she said that she did not know the cause of the crying, perhaps a nightmare or another destabilising factor.
As soon as the parents entered the child stopped crying.
That night she contacted a friend called EDNA GLYN, who also lives in Praia da Luz, after 23.00, telling her about the situation, who was not surprised at the childs crying.
She did not have anything to report for the 2nd May, because she was only home at night.
On the 3rd May she received a visit from her niece Carole during the morning, who said that when she was on her terrace she saw a male individual looking into the McCanns apartment, situation which has been told to the police, her family member even made a photo fit"
During the day nothing unusual happened, until almost 22.30 when, being alone again, she heard the hysterical shouts from a female person, calling out ?we have let her down? which she repeated several times, quite upset. Mrs Fenn then saw that it was the mother of little Madeleine who was shouting furiously. Upon leaning over the terrace, after having seen the mother, Mrs Fenn asked the father, Gerry, what was happening to which he replied that a small girl had been abducted. When asked, she replied that she did not leave her apartment, just spoke to Gerry from her balcony, which had a view over the terrace of the floor below. She found it strange that Gerry when said that a girl had been abducted, he did not mention that it was his daughter and that he did not mention any other scenarios. At that moment she offered Gerry help, saying that he could use her phone to contact the authorities, to which he replied that this had already been done. It was just after 22.30.
She said that after the mothers shouts, she had seen many people in the streets looking for the girl. She also refers to an episode when Gerry was speaking to a policeman and he refused to recognised the police force, saying that more agents of authority were needed to carry out the search.
When asked, she replied that on 3rd May she did not hear any noise from the McCann apartment, not even the opening of doors. She also said that before hearing the shouts she was watching television, as she often stays up late.
When questioned, she said that she never heard any arguments between the couple or with their children. She said that the family would spend much time outside of the apartment and therefore she did not notice their presence.
She said that until that night she had never spoken to the McCann's, because up until the 3rd May, she only sometimes saw them walking in the street. She never saw them with any vehicle.
She also said that she never told the McCann's that she had heard their daughter crying previously on 1st May because she thought it would just increase their suffering.
When questioned she said that she never saw any strange person or action before or after the event. She claims however, that a week previously she was the victim of an attempted robbery, which was not successful and neither was anything taken, thinking that the crying of the child could be linked to another attempted robbery in the residence.
Having read and approved the statement, she signs, together with the interpreter.
From this link
Mrs Fenns statement, taken in Praia da Luz on the 20th of August 2007:
Included in the files as a witness statement.
Being of British nationality and in spite of living in Portugal, does not have knowledge of the Portuguese language in its oral and written form, therefore a police interpreter is present, UEVE VAN LOOCK. Thus, according to the facts noted in the files, she says that she has lived in the apartment since 2003, which is located on the upper floor, immediately above the room from which the child disappeared.
She also refers to the day of the 1st May 2007, when she was at home alone, at approximately 22.30 she heard a child cry, and that due the tone of the crying seemed to be a young child and not a baby of two years of age or younger. Apart from the crying that continued for approximately one hour and fifteen minutes, and which got louder and more expressive, the child shouted ?Daddy, Daddy?, the witness had no doubt that the noise came from the floor below. At about 23.45, an hour and fifteen minutes after the crying began, she heard the parents arrive, she did not see them, but she heard the patio doors open, she was quite worried as the crying had gone on for more than an hour and had gradually got worse.
When questioned, she said that she did not know the cause of the crying, perhaps a nightmare or another destabilising factor.
As soon as the parents entered the child stopped crying.
That night she contacted a friend called EDNA GLYN, who also lives in Praia da Luz, after 23.00, telling her about the situation, who was not surprised at the childs crying.
She did not have anything to report for the 2nd May, because she was only home at night.
On the 3rd May she received a visit from her niece Carole during the morning, who said that when she was on her terrace she saw a male individual looking into the McCanns apartment, situation which has been told to the police, her family member even made a photo fit"
During the day nothing unusual happened, until almost 22.30 when, being alone again, she heard the hysterical shouts from a female person, calling out ?we have let her down? which she repeated several times, quite upset. Mrs Fenn then saw that it was the mother of little Madeleine who was shouting furiously. Upon leaning over the terrace, after having seen the mother, Mrs Fenn asked the father, Gerry, what was happening to which he replied that a small girl had been abducted. When asked, she replied that she did not leave her apartment, just spoke to Gerry from her balcony, which had a view over the terrace of the floor below. She found it strange that Gerry when said that a girl had been abducted, he did not mention that it was his daughter and that he did not mention any other scenarios. At that moment she offered Gerry help, saying that he could use her phone to contact the authorities, to which he replied that this had already been done. It was just after 22.30.
She said that after the mothers shouts, she had seen many people in the streets looking for the girl. She also refers to an episode when Gerry was speaking to a policeman and he refused to recognised the police force, saying that more agents of authority were needed to carry out the search.
When asked, she replied that on 3rd May she did not hear any noise from the McCann apartment, not even the opening of doors. She also said that before hearing the shouts she was watching television, as she often stays up late.
When questioned, she said that she never heard any arguments between the couple or with their children. She said that the family would spend much time outside of the apartment and therefore she did not notice their presence.
She said that until that night she had never spoken to the McCann's, because up until the 3rd May, she only sometimes saw them walking in the street. She never saw them with any vehicle.
She also said that she never told the McCann's that she had heard their daughter crying previously on 1st May because she thought it would just increase their suffering.
When questioned she said that she never saw any strange person or action before or after the event. She claims however, that a week previously she was the victim of an attempted robbery, which was not successful and neither was anything taken, thinking that the crying of the child could be linked to another attempted robbery in the residence.
Having read and approved the statement, she signs, together with the interpreter.
From this link
Donjeta
Adji Desir, missing from Florida
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Thanks for looking it up.
So, basically they don't have a clue but e.g. a neglectful homicide is still a possibility. It's hard to imagine a scenario in which a child sleeping in her room would be killed in a neglectful homicide by a stranger. This would be a crime that is likely to be committed by the parents or other caretakers, not a stranger abductor.
SapphireSteel
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They have lots of clues.
The previous lead investigator has a very good working theory that he is standing by despite being harrassed, hounded, discredited, sacked, sued, etc.
Whatever shonky stuff Amaral was accused of, he remains a very experienced investigator who was on the scene, asking the questions, reading the body language, and he has a world of instinct and knowledge gained over a very long and successful career.
I do not discredit his opinion, and note that no one else has yet either.
Except Team McCann and some posters on here. :doh:
:moo:
The following paragraph in the Statement is incorrect. It actually states,
"To establish whether she is still alive or if she is dead, or which seems most likely."
This has somehow been changed, and suggests a deliberate attempt to put a different meaning on his findings.
Also The McCanns wanted a Reconstruction in the beginning when everyone was still there, but The PJ refused. A year later was much too late.
The Altered Section
- Despite all of this, it was not possible to obtain any piece of evidence that would allow for a medium man, under the light of the criteria of logics, of normality and of the general rules of experience, to formulate any lucid, sensate, serious and honest conclusion about the circumstances under which the child was removed from the apartment (whether dead or alive, whether killed in a neglectful homicide or an intended homicide, whether the victim of a targeted abduction or an opportunistic abduction), nor even to produce a consistent prognosis about her destiny and inclusively - the most dramatic - to establish whether she is still alive or if she is dead, as seems more likely.
Should read, "OR WHICH SEEMS MORE LIKELY."
Amaral also has a Conviction for Lying Under Oath in The Case of Torture of the mother of another missing child. He is awaiting Trial for the Torture of the woman's husband.
Who would believe a word he says.
Amaral is a convicted criminal who was only on the case for six months at maximum, he also did nto woork on the ground and only met Gerry veruy briefly and never met Kate during his investigation. he also admits in his book he ignored leads about abducters, thought it was appropriate to have someone try to bully the FSS when the results did not give him what he wanted, and he completely misinterpreted the DNA results from the car (and made himself look really thick in the process). Also at the time of the investigation he had been made a suspect in another case, and if he found evidence of an abducter in Madeleine's disappearence the case against him would be strengthened. No-one but a few crackpots like Bennett take Amaral seriously ( he is in hock up to his eyeballs now after his failed libel trial). His career is over because of the Cipriana case (did he really think getting a criminal conviction for fabricating evidence was not going to harm his careeer), not because of the Mccann case, but that is an easy way for him to push the blame away. He was a big fish in a tiny pond, and when he came across people like the lawyers for Cipriano he suddenly became a tiny little fish in a much bigger pond.
SapphireSteel
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Please post link.
Noted also that Amaral has done exactly ZERO jail time for this alleged "criminal conviction"...why not?
Goncalo Amaral was given an eighteen month Suspended Sentence. This was confirmed on Appeal.
He is awaiting Trial for personally beating Leandro Silva, Leonor Cipriano's husband while two other PJ Officers held Leandro's arms behind his back
He is awaiting Trial for personally beating Leandro Silva, Leonor Cipriano's husband while two other PJ Officers held Leandro's arms behind his back
SapphireSteel
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http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/portugal/report-2012
The above is an amnesty international report confirming that amarel received a criminal conviction and a suspended prison term for fabricating evidence. He was a suspect for this during the investigation into madeleines disappearence.
he is also awaiting trial for another torture case. He also took two lawyer's who accused him of torture to the criminal court for libel. he not only lost, but the court said he had to not only pay the defendents costs, but also the costs of the court itself.
The above is an amnesty international report confirming that amarel received a criminal conviction and a suspended prison term for fabricating evidence. He was a suspect for this during the investigation into madeleines disappearence.
he is also awaiting trial for another torture case. He also took two lawyer's who accused him of torture to the criminal court for libel. he not only lost, but the court said he had to not only pay the defendents costs, but also the costs of the court itself.
Trying to discredit Amaral does not alter the fact that crucial info is availabe to the public in the police files, where one can read the different versions of events the McCanns have offered to LE, like for example Gerry's first version being that he entered the apartment through the front door.
es not need to try to discredit Amaral he is a convicted criminal (and in his own book he discredits himself by misunderstaning the basics of DNA analysis, admiting he did nto follow up any leads that indicated an abductor, and claims he had someone call the FSS to bawl them out for not saying the evidence implicated the mccanns). That and his tax problems discredit him.
I have not seen any evidence where the mccanns change their story. the Mccanns always said they used the patio doors which fronted on to the pool area, as opposed to the front door which was at the back of the flat from the tapas bar.
SapphireSteel
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fabgod
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I went to the PJ files from Gerry McCanns statement of the 4th may 2007, he states he used the key to the door which is nether here nor there as far as I am concerned,
the interesting part is that he say Oldfield used the patio doors which were always unlocked and then that his wife Kate MCann used the key to access the flat.
This means she entered via the front door, which is on the same wall as the childrens bedroom window which is situated less than 5 feet from the door to the right.
He goes on to state that Kate McCann "saw immediately that the door to the children's bedroom was completely open, the window was also open, the blinds were raised and the curtains were drawn open."
She couldn't see immediately the scenario as described because the door opened into a hallway which ran the length of the childrens room and the childrens doorway is situated around the corner!
strange!
edited to add, Kate McCann didnt see the wide open window and shutters when she was standing at the side of them and couldnt have seen them immediately as she walked in.
SapphireSteel
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Also interesting to note - Kate said she saw cuddle cat on a "high shelf" by the bed which is what she claimed alerted her to an abduction as Madeleine would never leave it behind.
THERE WAS NO HIGH SHELF IN THAT ROOM.
:banghead:
saphire,
cat has never said she left the toy on a high shelf, there was no shelf so it woudl be an easily torn apart lie. The press claimed she had said this. Not one direct quote attributes this claim to kate herself. It has been talked about on the forum as an example of the bad press reporting.
Rashamon.
Can you just say where you got that translation, because that is nto what I have seen in the original portuguese ones, or the translations. And jeremey wilkins stated he saw gerry come from the path that led from the patio doors. But again it doe snot really matter what door he entered by, Jeremey saw him come from the path there so he had to have left by the patio door, and the patio doors could not be unlocked from the outside, and matt Oldfield said he used the patio doors as did kate.
cat has never said she left the toy on a high shelf, there was no shelf so it woudl be an easily torn apart lie. The press claimed she had said this. Not one direct quote attributes this claim to kate herself. It has been talked about on the forum as an example of the bad press reporting.
Rashamon.
Can you just say where you got that translation, because that is nto what I have seen in the original portuguese ones, or the translations. And jeremey wilkins stated he saw gerry come from the path that led from the patio doors. But again it doe snot really matter what door he entered by, Jeremey saw him come from the path there so he had to have left by the patio door, and the patio doors could not be unlocked from the outside, and matt Oldfield said he used the patio doors as did kate.
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