Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread #27

[Hexe]

The window. You will laugh but at the time of reading all about this, me and my friend tried it.

I have a window similar position and height off the ground in my sitting room. The opening is about the same.

Using my grandson who was the same age as maddy at the time I tried to get him through the window. FLIPPING heck no way he was awkward and very heavy lol...even with two people. My friend went outside and I tried to pass him through. I scraped ALL my wall paper off the wall and marked the window sill.

I know he was a bit heavier then the girl but not much more. I am over 5ft 8 and my mate is built like a bloke lol (she is ex army and quite strong).

No we couldnt do it. Gave up actually it was too much like hard work.

Now if the child was dead maybe as then they would be limp, but alive no way lol. Apart from which you would have woken the child up trying to negotiate her. My little grandson spent most of the time giggling cos it was funny nanny.....

Thank you for this forensic experiment! You're great!

Actually the limp body is even more difficult to move. It's so... you know, all the weight works against you, as there is no help from the muscles of that person and it slips from your hands easily.

I had to bury my cat a couple of weeks ago. He wasn't big, just some ten pounds of weight, but when I was bringing him to the garden I almost dropped poor thing few times on the ground. I got him wrapped in an old curtain, but being limp he was so... liquid and so hard to get a good hold on him...

So I think with a limp body it could be even more difficult.

 

[haden]

It is absolutely bizarre! No way would any other man besides my husband bathe my child.

I'd love to know whose idea that was, how that ever came about and the reasoning behind it. Did some one say, " hey drop the kids off here... My husband would love to bathe them all" and the McCanns never missing an opportunity to ditch their kids said ... Sure..

Didn't Kate, that last night, claim to have bathed her own children???


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I don't think Kate would allow anyone bathing her children.
She did not like the babysitters from OC looking after them in the night.
I have at least 2 friends who think the same, they would not allow a new babysitter near their children in the night, unless this was someone really well recommended but even then they would hesitate.

My own experience: I had a registered nanny looking after my child while I was at work. Once I came out of work earlier and met her in the shops, quite far from her house.. and without my child! I got historical, asked where my child is .. she said the child is at her home, sleeping, and her husband is in.. I went there running and her husband opened the door wearing only a towel..
That was her last day!

 

[haden]

But they did leave a pile of passports wide in the open in their bedroom (see photo evidence from the PJ). This to me is another indication that the parents were totally relaxed that night and did not even consider a possible break in.

I travel around world for business a lot and I would never leave my passport behind in my hotel room and if I have to, it always goes into a safe as does my wallet, iPad and laptop.

Same here, I am paranoid about losing my passport abroad )))

 

[Fierljepper]

I don't think anyone can be ruled out until someone is charged and convicted. I haven't seen anything officially stated that SM or RM couldn't have been involved or anything concrete to show why not. The McCanns aren't being classed as suspects now, either, but people aren't going to stop questioning some of their behaviour and inconsistencies. All any of us can do is theorise, because the crime hasn't been solved and so no-one but the perpetrator/s know what happened that night.

True. It also is quite remarkable that neither SY and esp. not PJ are putting any focus on the McCanns.

Five years later, the investigation has been reopened after a request by the PJ, who presented to the Public Prosecutor "new indicative elements which justify pursuing the investigation" - announced the Attorney General [Procuradoria-geral da República] on 24 October.

The PJ did not reveal their leads, but made it known that the McCanns were not suspects.

Unless you believe of course that both organizations are corrupt, bribed, biased, politically influenced etc., it seems to me quite an important data point to support the McCann's innocence as it is perceived as such by the pro's...

 

[jigzy]

...................................................................................................

This is my SIMPLE theory......very simple....it has to be otherwise it wouldnt work to many cooks spoil the broth lol.

Gerry went and checked his kids, maddy was asleep he then went out and and bumped into Jez. In the meantime the noise of him using toilet etc, woke the child up. She went into the sitting room and could hear her dad maybe and she got onto the settee to look out window, fell off and fell behind the settee hitting her head very hard....

Matt Oldfield never clocked Maddy he just did a listen at the door.

Mum comes in 10pm finds her missing, panic ensues....everyone looking cant find her outside etc, mum stays in apartment. The are assuming she is outside or been abducted or wondered so search parties organised to check outside. ALL night residents go out looking.

The police were called and they came and took a statement and asked questions when last seen etc. They too organise search then finally contact the PJ.

What if the child wasnt found until much later?

Perhaps the mother doing another look suddenly sees her behind the settee.....they were inside most of the night whilst others were searching.

Is this far fetched NO.

A child went missing in UK two nights ago. The police were called, the parents looked everywhere, they even put up the police helicopter the lot. (Link at bottom).

So it could happen that the child lay where she fell and no one had noticed, as they were looking for her OUTSIDE. THE chlid was found BEFORE the PJ arrived. After all they never found blood spots behind the settee did they not until the dogs came weeks later.

IF this was the case the parents then had time to think about what to do. They knew that they would be in trouble with authorities, so continued with the abduction theme and actually fuelled it even more. I am not convinced their friends were involved to be honest.

Its so simple really. The child was put in a bag placed in the wardrobe and in the morning when the police had them moved out of the apartment to start forensics they took her with them. You have to remember we are dealing with two experienced doctors here who are not prone to panic.

So simple. The body could have been kept in a large suitcase wrapped in a pink blanket covered in sand and shut tight. This would mummify and dehydrate and the body would not leave an odour.

There was a case in Japan where the guy put the body in the bath he had on his verandah and it was filled with sand. Sand was used in Eygpt to mummify and preserve bodies.

Anyway the parents were not suspect they could move around freely, they were not watched 247 were they. A small body could be hid ANYWHERE.

I think the scenario has to be simple otherwise too much can go wrong.....This is just a theory ..... nothing more nothing less.

http://www.torquayheraldexpress.co....s-mum-terror/story-20017339-detail/story.html

Golden girl, I don't find your theory far fetched at all; I think it's plausible.

Upon finding (eventually) their dead child behind the sofa, why would any parent leap into action to cover up and dispose of the body? This, to me, means only one thing - something about the state of the child would mean certain jail time to the parents. I'm not talking physical mess of a dead body here, but there must have been something that the LE would find in an autopsy that would send the parents off to jail for sure - drugs/anaesthetics.

Imagine the scenario: all hell is going down in those first few moments, everyone frantic yelling the child's name, searching around outside in the streets nearby, and then lo and behold, the parent spots the child behind the sofa. A moment of realisation that they're totally going to rot in jail for the rest of their days for drugging and manslaughter, and quick into action. Get rid of the evidence, straight away to the garden area by the steps, then quickly to a place away from the apartment such as the rocky part of the beach, somewhere to go back to in the early hours with a holdall to move it further away (bringing the holdall back to the apartment since leaving it with the body would be too risky as it would link back to the parents and mean that the 'abductor' would have taken a child and a bag, making no sense at all).
Leaping on top of the Tanner sighting as this led the eye the other way. The dogs speak only the truth.

Jmo.


Eta: I don't think the deceased child spent time in the parents' closet where the dogs indicated, but the bag that HAD contained her did, AFTER it was bright back to the apartment.

 

[SapphireSteel]

The window. You will laugh but at the time of reading all about this, me and my friend tried it.

I have a window similar position and height off the ground in my sitting room. The opening is about the same.

Using my grandson who was the same age as maddy at the time I tried to get him through the window. FLIPPING heck no way he was awkward and very heavy lol...even with two people. My friend went outside and I tried to pass him through. I scraped ALL my wall paper off the wall and marked the window sill.

I know he was a bit heavier then the girl but not much more. I am over 5ft 8 and my mate is built like a bloke lol (she is ex army and quite strong).

No we couldnt do it. Gave up actually it was too much like hard work.

Now if the child was dead maybe as then they would be limp, but alive no way lol. Apart from which you would have woken the child up trying to negotiate her. My little grandson spent most of the time giggling cos it was funny nanny.....

:lol:

I've heard of sleuthers using their hubbies to experiment upon but this is the first time I've heard of a grandchild being lobbed about!

You're right of course, it is almost impossible for this scenario to have occurred.

Add in the fact that the only fingerprints found in the "open window" position were Kate's, and you have something which definitely needs explaining.

:cow:

 

[Hexe]

I don't think Kate would allow anyone bathing her children.
She did not like the babysitters from OC looking after them in the night.

Yet she didn't have any problems with these babysitters spending all days with her children, even after Maddie went missing. She also didn't have any problem with leaving her children in an unlocked apartment, alone, at night. She does not look for me like a very sound parent.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I don't think Kate would allow anyone bathing her children.
She did not like the babysitters from OC looking after them in the night.
I have at least 2 friends who think the same, they would not allow a new babysitter near their children in the night, unless this was someone really well recommended but even then they would hesitate.

My own experience: I had a registered nanny looking after my child while I was at work. Once I came out of work earlier and met her in the shops, quite far from her house.. and without my child! I got historical, asked where my child is .. she said the child is at her home, sleeping, and her husband is in.. I went there running and her husband opened the door wearing only a towel..
That was her last day!

What a shocking story and I sincerely mean that. A parent's worst nightmare.

However, as you shared, I have to ask -

Did you go off to work the next day leaving your child alone?

:seeya:

 

[zigzag]

The dogs alerted in the McCann's apartment and nobody elses, the dogs alerted to the McCann's hire car and nobody elses, surely if the dogs alert to old blood as other posters have said why no alerts in any other apartments or any other cars? Did nobody else bleed at all apart from in the McCann's apartment and hire car...I've always thought there was something dodgy about them and the dog hits was the final nail in the coffin...JMO

 

[haden]

What a shocking story and I sincerely mean that. A parent's worst nightmare.

However, as you shared, I have to ask -

Did you go off to work the next day leaving your child alone?

:seeya:

I went straight in and he handed me my son straight away who was sleeping in his car seat and seemed undisturbed so this man wasn't someone who is after abusing children but he as well could have been.. IMO even some wives don't know the natures of their husbands or even opposite, there are women abusers too..

Leaving a child in a day nursery with other children is not the same as leaving the child with unknown one babysitter.
I left my child in a nursery since he was 8 months old.
I never left him home alone till the age of 13 here in London but I did have some risky moments.. for example when he was about 3-4 we were in Italy in a port, waiting for hours to board the ferry, I was reading a book and my little one was just running around. I felt safe there. At one point I gave him money to go alone to the shop and buy something.. that meant when he enters shop he would not be in my view point. He went and came back.. nothing happened.
I only remember that episode when Madeleine went missing.. How stupid that was.. we were in a port in a unknown country, full of unknown people and I left my child to go alone to the shop. People do things like that..
Also we have a holiday home similar to ones in PDL, I DID leave him home alone when I went to shops, chatted with neighbours etc. This is because the life setup there is completely different than here in London.. all the parents there do that.. my mum and grandma also left me alone when I was little as I also holidayed there when I was a kid .

 

[Hexe]

Also we have a holiday home similar to ones in PDL, I DID leave him home alone when I went to shops, chatted with neighbours etc. This is because the life setup there is completely different than here in London.. all the parents there do that.. my mum and grandma also left me alone when I was little as I also holidayed there when I was a kid .

I know no country where everyone have a habit of leaving their children unattended, in an unlocked apartment at night. That is not a sound parenting, sorry. Especially that, according to Kate's own statement, she left her children alone even after Maddie complained to her about that.

 

[Fierljepper]

Just to extend the template of what I believe is the simplest scenario possible with now some more information added (apologies for the repetition, I am trying to make it more robust against the challenges I received):

0) A single abductor (pick any motive you like, it could be: retaliation, envy against the upper class, blackmailing, pedophilia, just lunatic, drugs, distressed childless mother, etc.), waits for the right moment sitting in his/her car at the car park opposite of the OC entrance. See picture below for his/her viewpoint. It really is the perfect spot, although I would park my car slightly to the left from where the photo was taken so that he could even see who was entering/exiting the patio door that evening. The perfectness of this spot (a little to the left) to observe all relevant movements could also explains why the McCann's apartment was targeted. It is the only one in this line of sight where you can see the patio door and where you also have this back-door exit directly to the street. The conscious selection of particularly this spot would then be a strong indication that this action was carefully preplanned and not a person acting impulsively. It also supports the witness statements that claim they spotted people staring at 5A in exactly that parking lot earlier in the week (with supporting e-fits out now)

1) He (read also 'she') sees the McCanns entering the OC ~20:30, but he cannot make move as yet, since all other Tapas-friends are dripping in shortly after that. So, he decides to move after GM has done his checks and also has finished his 3-minute chat with JW. He might even have waited for JT to also come back and then make the move. It also could be done after MO 'checked' the children. The point is that there is plenty of opportunity to strike before 10PM.

2) Fastest and safest way to get into 5A: cross the street, walk up the stairs and go through the unclosed patio door (note: he has seen people leaving through it (GM + MO). You know it can only be closed from the inside, hence you know it is open). Safest is then to close the door behind you (wearing gloves, another indication it was preplanned) to make things look normal from the outside (possibly even from the restaurant view) and to avoid early detection when somebody suddenly decides to check in sooner than the 30 minute pattern.

3) Open the window/shutter as a back-up escape plan to avoid ending up trapped in the children's room (or to stronger suggest a kidnap to damage e.g. the park's reputation). The escape plan was however not needed and it was save to leave via the front door. Hence an open window/shutter was left and therefore also no traces of burglary or any lichen/sills damages were found. It leaves exactly the state that was found by KM at 10PM who obviously immediately thought that somebody had kidnapped Maddie. Note: Why did he pick Maddie and not one of the twins? Maybe she might have woken up and make some noise when he opened the window/shutter too loudly, hence he grabbed her to minimize the risk of early detection and a ending up with a potentially risky witness in hind sight.

4) Safest way to get out and back to your car: via the front door (no key needed when opened from the inside, I guess, but always key needed when entering from the outside), no traces left, turn left and go around the block. Pretty good shelter on that footpath covered by trees/plants and the least chance of bumping into anybody of the "T9-checkers" heads on. This route is supported by the freshest scent trace picked up 4 times by the sniffer dogs on May 4th and 8th and the trace was consistently lost in the car park on all occasions (assuming the ground sniffing dogs also pick up scent even when a person is carried and little body particles land on the ground).

5) He wore gloves, so no traces like hair, DNA etc. left (and if he did, they got totally polluted anyway by so many folk running around through the apartment before 5A was finally properly sealed by PJ. I don't believe they even bothered reconciling all hair/dirt sample with police officer, previous visitors, cleaning people, maintenance men, helpers, friend, park staff that were in 5A that night and before).

6) He drove of from the park and only cell phone data or pictures from the car park/license plates could maybe give an indication of the direction he drove in. After that it is obviously pure speculation where the abductor went to and what happened to Maddie.

That's the simplest template I can think of that meets the data points (yes, I am not trusting and therefore ignoring the cadaver/blood dog findings three months later).

I have the strong impression that this is the sort of template scenario that PJ and SY are now trying to populate with details from the files and the phone records. The trick now is to trace the phone data that night back to people movements and then check whether there are any characteristic/behavioral/criminal aspects that could hint at at a potential abductor.

This lens seems to make a lot of sense

 

[Hexe]

2) Fastest and safest way to get into 5A: cross the street, walk up the stairs and go through the unclosed patio door (note: he has seen people leaving through it (GM + MO). You know it can only be closed from the inside, hence you know it is open). Safest is then to close the door behind you (wearing gloves, another indication it was preplanned) to make things look normal from the outside (possibly even from the restaurant view) and to avoid early detection when somebody suddenly decides to check in sooner than the 30 minute pattern.

The patio door was not visible from the restaurant. It was obscured by the bushes and the outern wall of the OC and there was a plastic windshield around the patio of the Tapas Bar. So the perp could even dance a rock'n'roll on the 5A patio, without being afraid that the Tapas 9 would spot him.

3) Open the window/shutter as a back-up escape plan to avoid ending up trapped in the children's room (or to stronger suggest a kidnap to damage e.g. the park's reputation).

I see no sense here. Why would be the perp walking through the crowded bedroom, that was pitch black, due to the closed shutters? That would be just increasing the risk of something going wrong.

The escape plan was however not needed and it was save to leave via the front door. Hence an open window/shutter was left and therefore also no traces of burglary or any lichen/sills damages were found.

What with Dianne Webster's statement, now? She said that when she came to the 5A shortly after the alarm raised by Kate, and tried to open the shutters from the outside, the window was closed. Actually nobody outside of the McCanns saw it open.

 

[haden]

I know no country where everyone have a habit of leaving their children unattended, in an unlocked apartment at night. That is not a sound parenting, sorry. Especially that, according to Kate's own statement, she left her children alone even after Maddie complained to her about that.

Well, I am not going to advertise it where and give some people idea..

But this is still happening.. when I see children as young as 3 alone playing outside their homes and mixing with groups of tourists and yachts and boats, and freely running around many streets ..my heart pounds. I think they can be in Mexico tomorrow and their parents wouldn't know.
And before Madeleine went missing I wouldn't even notice this!
Before that my child was one of these children..
I had no fear, same as these parents have no fear. Many of these parents have never heard of Madeleine's case.

 

[Fierljepper]

The patio door was not visible from the restaurant. It was obscured by the bushes and the outern wall of the OC and there was a plastic windshield around the patio of the Tapas Bar. So the perp could even dance a rock'n'roll on the 5A patio, without being afraid that the Tapas 9 would spot him.

That's true, so I can remove that from my scenario. It wasn't needed anyway.

I see no sense here. Why would be the perp walking through the crowded bedroom, that was pitch black, due to the closed shutters? That would be just increasing the risk of something going wrong.

Good challenge. It is indeed a risk to open the window and the shutters since it makes noise and could raise attention of a T9-child checker just passing by. The reason I added it is that KM made the comment in her statement about it being open (even about the wind closing/slamming the door). But you are right, it is not a very logical thing to do.

What with Dianne Webster's statement, now? She said that when she came to the 5A shortly after the alarm raised by Kate, and tried to open the shutters from the outside, the window was closed. Actually nobody outside of the McCanns saw it open.

Didn't know that and I have to reread Dianne's statement. It would surprise me a lot when Dianne was trying the lift the shutters from the outside, since that would have certainly left her fingerprints on it right? I have never read any reports about that. Apparently one can raise the shutters from the outside, otherwise she couldn't have seen the window. Maybe KM or GM did just close the window since there was blowing a rather cold wind that night and the twins were still sleeping (if it was found closed, this would explain KM's fingerprints). Anyway, I will reread her statement first and revert.

 

[Linda7NJ]

True. It also is quite remarkable that neither SY and esp. not PJ are putting any focus on the McCanns.



Unless you believe of course that both organizations are corrupt, bribed, biased, politically influenced etc., it seems to me quite an important data point to support the McCann's innocence as it is perceived as such by the pro's...

Unless and until they find Madeleine and the perpetrator is convicted, I will continue to refuse to rule out the McCanns.

See the JonBenet Ramsey case.


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[Hexe]

Didn't know that and I have to reread Dianne's statement. It would surprise me a lot when Dianne was trying the lift the shutters from the outside, since that would have certainly left her fingerprints on it right? I have never read any reports about that. Apparently one can raise the shutters from the outside, otherwise she couldn't have seen the window. Maybe KM or GM did just close the window since there was blowing a rather cold wind that night and the twins were still sleeping (if it was found closed, this would explain KM's fingerprints). Anyway, I will reread her statement first and revert.

- However, she wants to stress that immediately afterwards, she went outside the apartment in order to ascertain whether she would be able to raise the shutters by hand from the outside, and found it was impossible for her. Consequently she infers that at the time of her arrival at the apartment the window would have been closed.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANNE_WEBSTER_11-MAY07.htm

 

[Linda7NJ]

I went straight in and he handed me my son straight away who was sleeping in his car seat and seemed undisturbed so this man wasn't someone who is after abusing children but he as well could have been.. IMO even some wives don't know the natures of their husbands or even opposite, there are women abusers too..

Leaving a child in a day nursery with other children is not the same as leaving the child with unknown one babysitter.
I left my child in a nursery since he was 8 months old.
I never left him home alone till the age of 13 here in London but I did have some risky moments.. for example when he was about 3-4 we were in Italy in a port, waiting for hours to board the ferry, I was reading a book and my little one was just running around. I felt safe there. At one point I gave him money to go alone to the shop and buy something.. that meant when he enters shop he would not be in my view point. He went and came back.. nothing happened.
I only remember that episode when Madeleine went missing.. How stupid that was.. we were in a port in a unknown country, full of unknown people and I left my child to go alone to the shop. People do things like that..
Also we have a holiday home similar to ones in PDL, I DID leave him home alone when I went to shops, chatted with neighbours etc. This is because the life setup there is completely different than here in London.. all the parents there do that.. my mum and grandma also left me alone when I was little as I also holidayed there when I was a kid .

Now I see more of where you're coming from normalizing & defending the McCanns behavior before Madeleine disappeared. How old was your child when you left him alone when on holiday?

What about the McCanns behavior afterwards? I can't wrap my head around the details in this case. Their child crying for over an hour the night before, even voicing her frustration to Kate at breakfast the morning of. Their behavior afterwards... Doesn't seem like the behavior of someone that simply felt "safe" and didn't consider abduction a possibility. Kate leaped to abduction as opposed to simply walking off...







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[haden]

One single detail: burglaries in the resort happened without breaking the locks I think, I think I read it somewhere..

And this is the datings of the burglaries near the 5A

from this blog
http://espacioexterior.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/the-madeleine-mccann-abduction-janosch.html

Are you people saying that these burglaries have no at least 50% chance to happen in 5A too?

This reminds me of a very unique experience I had in London in my student days.

I lived in a cheap accommodation which needed no deposit to secure the flat, there were 8 flats, quite nice inside, not bad area but since they were cheap you would get odd neighbours, like strange Russian group of guys, a drunken Irish girl who always shouted when drunk, extreme punkers, all sorts of 'artistic' people.
And a quiet Nepalese student on the top floor.
The burglaries started to happen. The police was there on daily basis. I think 3 flats were burgled, the police woman said 'I feel now like I live here, how often it started happening'
My mum got panicky, she wanted me out of there, as I was stubborn I am staying there she came to visit and stayed with me for a while.
One night my next doors neighbour flat got broken in too, again the police, the investigation etc..
There was a nice couple above me.. the girl came down to comfort my friend, said to the police her boyfriend is sleeping and anyway they saw nothing so no need to wake him up.
That night I heard a row in the flat above. The girl was screaming, the guy was hitting her. The nice couple.
At about 2am after being fed up with the noise I went upstairs to tell them to stop. When the guy opened the door I got shock of my life. His face was black and blue, his eyes.. I cannot describe the fear I felt of him. I started fearing for the girls life, honestly! As she went quiet! He started accusing me that I want him out of the building, and going towards me.. I was backing up, going downstairs and saying 'I just want you to stop making noise'
The noise continued. I could hear him saying 'that stupid *****.. she wants me out of this building, she wants me to lose my home'
Then he would come downstairs banging my doors and saying 'open that door, I want to talk to you' I figured out he was under some influence so I wouldn't open the door. At about 5am I opened the door to him. I had no phone, nothing, I could not call the police and it wasn't even on my mind to call the police. I was young, I never called police in my life.
So he entered my apartment at 5am still under influence, he kept saying it was all his mothers fault, she gave him up for adoption or something.. he kept talking and talking. I was listening, like a psychologist. Then when I calmed him down, he left.
At around 10am I got up, after first calling my work and telling them I won't be in, I went out to find the phone boot and to call the agency that was running the building to report the incident.
And there he was, on the street, in front of the building, all clean up, freshly shaved and holding his cat.. he smiled.. Nobody, I mean nobody believed me that he was causing the problems the night before. The agency said I must be wrong, he was a nice guy. Same said all my neighbours.
Then, sometimes in the middle of that day the row started again, she was screaming.. then she came out.. all covered in blood. and she was holding the cat. He was pulling her to not to leave him alone, that they were together for 4 years, he was crying.
Her arms had all cuts from the razor, she did not make an official complaint. Her parents came and took her.
He was left alone.
All neighbours were in shock. My next door neighbour kept saying she had a feeling it was him who broke into her apartment. But we could not prove anything.
All until one night. The nice Nepalese guy knocked my door, he said he cannot unlock his doors, seems someone is in.. My neighbour started shouting, crying, she got scared. I called police. I closed the big heavy window on the staircase. I did not know by doing this I locked him on the roof.
The police came, they broke the doors, found no one in. All mess in the apartment signalled the burglary taking place. Police was puzzled.
Luckily in the next building someone called the police as they heard the noise on the roof. Another police patrol came with helicopters and they caught him with the stolen stuff, red handed. It was him, the guy above me, it was him all the time but we didn't have the clue. They found all the stolen goods in his apartment. And his cat in an very abused state, I heard he started peeling the cats fur.. can you imagine that? And we had dinner one night at his apartment, all clean and nice, who would guess this???

Why I am saying all this is because you never know who to suspect..
Even in Madeleines case it can be someone who is the least suspected! The nice guy, eh?

 

[Linda7NJ]

Hadan that's a terrifying experience for sure!

IMO burglaries happen all the time.

The McCanns were not burglared.

Theives and child abductors are two totally different beings. IMO

You lived under a total nut job & thief and batterer.

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