Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread No. 19

[ThoughtFox]

There's so many inconsistencies in the quoted remarks from this article it's almost unbelievable. Gerry didn't want to unlock a door being afraid he'd wake the kids yet he went to the bathroom there in the apartment and had to of made some sort of noise. Gerry was afraid the kids would wake yet says that Madeline didn't wake up much at night anymore and twins were totally out. Madeline supposedly didn't wake at night or get in their bed that much lately even though the chart at home was full of reward stars so it had been considered a big problem yet they didn't seem to care if she woke while totally alone in a foreign place. When Madeline did awake, she got in their bed whether they were there or not yet not mentioning if she went looking for them in the home or where ever they were like most kids do. Was she afraid to? Gerry was glad that he didn't have to put up with kids during a meal in a place with no baby listening service at an early hour as if kids had no place in a restaurant. Gerry says that they could never have a meal out together as Madeline was always "disturbing" them when she was a baby as if a set of twins never cried or required attention during meals out. I noticed more things but my post is getting too long.

Excellent post! That's an especially good point about the Twins being "good" - meaning they never seemed to bother the adults - while Madeleine was a problem child - meaning she was needy and demanding.

The whole thing about predicting what a small child will do in the night just bugs the heck out of me. :banghead: I have three kids who have done everything from sleepwalking to throwing up in their own bed. Kids wake up due bad dreams or having wet the bed also. It happens to every child - I can even remember waking up with problems when I was a small child, especially bad dreams and running straight to find my parents.

So I don't understand this tendency the McCanns have to generalize that because a child has "always" behaved a certain way, that they always will. That's just so untrue, and a slippery slope of logic.

 

[txsvicki]

Yes, and why Gerry was so focused that night on Madeline and her behavior as a baby 4 years ago. Maybe he's saying the opposite of what he was really feeling, such as being PO'd that he STILL couldn't sit and have adult time without being disturbed instead of feeling so lucky. Luck is a strange word because he was having problems with waking as proved by all the stars on the chart at home. Also, I've never understood why the doctors didn't come up with something like calling one of their own cell phones and leaving it in the room so they could at least listen on the other end from the restaurant. No wonder Portugal suspects those two.

 

[gord]

The article chronicling the events of the case was objective, Gord. David James Smith writing for The Times today. Did you see it?

yes I read the whole article - it appeared on Sunday in the Sunday Times .

Granted it is only one persons view point - but he is an experienced crime journalist and has spent 6 months going over the case and talking with many people and contacts - He does seem pretty clear in his conclusions and answers a few points as well

Did you read it , did it alter your view point in anyway ?

 

[Prickle]

2007-12-17

Beginning of this week
Letters will be sent

The rogatory letters, where the Judiciary Police asks to make new interrogatories to the McCanns and to the seven friends with whom they dinned on the night of May 3, will be sent to England in the beginning of this week, was revealed by a source close to the investigation to the CM.

The letters will be sent through the Eurojust system, which provides the link between the various Justice departments of the Member states of the European Union.

Yesterday, the newspaper 'Daily Express' said that the video surveillance cameras captured the presence of three men with a suspicious air and nervous, smoking cigarettes and walk from one side to the other just a few meters from the apartment where the couple spent holidays. This the night in which Madeleine disappeared and the day before.

The British newspaper writes that the PJ - due to be in difficulty to decode the faces that appear on the images, will send the record to an FBI laboratory in the United States. And it adds that one of the men present similarities with the kidnapper described by Jane Tunner.

This information was however denied to our newspaper by a source close to the investigation that guaranteed that there are no such images. " The nearest CCTV camera to the McCanns apartment belongs to a supermarket and at that time was not even working."

The same newspaper also says that the sniffer dogs followed the trail of Madeleine in an old barn 45 kilometers from Aldeia da Luz

But these facts are also denied by the same source contacted by the CM, that says that in recent times searches have not been made on the outskirts of Praia da Luz and that even when they were held did not result in any information of this kind.

MCCANNS PREPARE CHRISTMAS

Kate and Gerry McCann are in an "very complicated and sad" phase with the proximity of the Christmas season, the first celebrated by the family without the presence of Maddie. "The Christmas will be very difficult if until there Madeleine is not found. We plan to spend a quiet Christmas with the family in the UK, "Gerry wrote in the blog that he created to help to find his daughter. The surgeon also writes that although they do not have much desire to celebrate Christmas will do so because of the twins. "Sean and Amelie need to have a normal Christmas. They made the tree with the help of an uncle and the grandmother, "writes the father of Maddie. Gerry and Kate continue to nourish the hope of finding Madeleine alive and expect to have her back in Christmas.

SEARCH OF 24 TOURISTS

The Spanish detectives of the agency Metodo 3 hired by the McCanns are trying to find 24 British tourists who spent holidays in Praia da Luz, in May. According to the electronic edition of the 'Daily Star', they may have "vital information" to the investigation. "We must find them and make them go back in time. They may have vital information or small clues to help to compose the puzzle, "said the detectives to the British newspaper. Metodo 3 believes that Madeleine is alive and was taken to North Africa on May 3,date when she disappeared.
Angela Lopes / João Mira Godinho
Http://www.correiomanha.pt/not.....&p=200

 

[Texana]

The star chart bothers me, too. Clearly there were issues at home with Madeleine waking up and getting out of her bed, which is normal for that age. So while it wouldn't stop you from going on vacation, wouldn't it make you think twice about leaving her in a room with the twins and no supervision?

It's odd that as time progresses, the McCanns' decision does not make sense or seem more understandable, but instead, more and more inexplicable.

 

[daffodil]

unfortunatley the rules of this site dont allow me to realy say what I think - but your general comments about the Mccaans and their family I find despicable - certainly calling anyone a *advertiser censored* ..........do you know what it means ?

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: I agree gord but I see one of my posts was removed for expressing my general opinion-seems you can say what you want though if you are ANTI Mccann :banghead:

 

[gord]

The star chart bothers me, too. Clearly there were issues at home with Madeleine waking up and getting out of her bed, which is normal for that age. So while it wouldn't stop you from going on vacation, wouldn't it make you think twice about leaving her in a room with the twins and no supervision?

It's odd that as time progresses, the McCanns' decision does not make sense or seem more understandable, but instead, more and more inexplicable.

The stars chart taken in its own is normal - I am sure hundreds of parents have done things similar

As has been stated here many times by many people - including myself - their decision was wrong - it was a bad call - and as it turned out a disaster .

They should have thought twice but they didnt they just got lulled in to some sense of false security and holiday bravado -

The whole decision is immaterial though if you are in the camp of a premeditated killing carefully planned - to me that is the most logical outcome if I believed they were involved .

the one thing the PJ will have done ( well I hope ) is too have corroberated ( spelling? !! ) every timeline there is - so if Gerry and kate were at the creche till 6.00 or 6.30 or 5.00 then there will be other witnesses - statements that we just dont know about

anyway here we are again discussing media reports !! with little or any progress

 

[gord]

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: I agree gord but I see one of my posts was removed for expressing my general opinion-seems you can say what you want though if you are ANTI Mccann :banghead:

I hear you - I dont mind having a robust debate or even to be proved wrong - but when it just gets to down that level then there seems little point - suddenly a glass of wine at the end of the day turns into two alcoholics tanking it up !!

 

[ceeaura]

I hear you - I dont mind having a robust debate or even to be proved wrong - but when it just gets to down that level then there seems little point - suddenly a glass of wine at the end of the day turns into two alcoholics tanking it up !!

Have you tried clicking the report button? Seems it would be better to do that instead of commenting and getting a big fight going on in the forums.

Let it be up to the mods what should be deleted ect.Not trying to start anything.Just asking So please don't take it wrong.


The star chart info is not sitting well with me either.If a child while at home has a star chart for issues ,one being getting up out of bed ,while at her own home where she would be the most comfortable,then why leave that child alone in a strange place where it is even more likely that she will wake up??? :waitasec:

 

[Squishified]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is a star chart??

 

[colomom]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is a star chart??

Hi squishified!

It was a chart showing the days that Maddie stayed in her own bed for which she was given a star.

 

[Squishified]

Hi squishified!

It was a chart showing the days that Maddie stayed in her own bed for which she was given a star.

Ahhhhhh, okay. Thanks colomom!

 

[ceeaura]

Basically a chart with a list of things.When a child does something correctly or very well they get a star by that thing.

 

[Squishified]

Thank you too, ceeaura!

 

[ceeaura]

Yw seems I was posting at about the same time colomom...hehehe

 

[Texana]

Maybe I didn't make my original thought clear.

I keep reading things that make me even more surprised at the original decision of the McCanns for those nights or that one night (whichever is true.) I keep looking for some kind of vindication or explanation or rational for their decision but instead of being able to just settle on something and say "well that makes sense" I hear more things that have just the opposite effect.

First: "Parents leave children alone." Okay, they really weren't that aware of the things that could happen or go wrong, their older child was perhaps not very adventurous and the other two are just getting to that accident-prone stage.

Then I learn that both are doctors. Curious, since both would have been aware of the accidents that befall children,as part of their medical training they would do stints in both ER and pediatrics. But perhaps their children sleep really, really soundly at night--they've got children who sleep like rocks for hours on end. (there are two kinds of children/parents: those who need star charts for staying in bed, and those who don't. We had star charts and door gates everywhere.)

But no, come to find out Madeleine was having to be rewarded at home to stay in bed. Even if she had "lots of stars" it means it was within the realm of possibility that she would get out of bed.

So how could they not be sure the doors and windows were locked? And why not check on the children's actual physical presence in beds when you did enter the apartment?

It makes less sense, not more or the same, which is puzzling to me.

Maybe the star chart is immaterial, or maybe it is evidence that the McCanns' decision making overall has a kind of systemic flaw in it; an inability or refusal to follow ordinary common sense or logic or whatever you want to call it.

And if that is true, then we can assume nothing about the decisions they made following that night as well, as to whether or not those decisions were what the average reasonable person would do as well.

 

[colomom]

Yw seems I was posting at about the same time colomom...hehehe

Great minds and all that ceeaura!!

 

[txsvicki]

I think the McCanns could possibly just be covering their rears with all the comments, because they know there is other evidence that totally contradicts their actions. So, their statements are also contradictory. I really don't think they are that stupid, just desperate to seem innocent or save reputations.

 

[Prickle]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=503184&in_page_id=1770


McCanns 'back in the frame' after new Maddie apartment evidence is sent to the UK

Last updated at 16:30pm on 18th December 2007



Portuguese police are sending new forensic material in the Madeleine McCann case to British scientists, it was revealed today.

The previously untested evidence is believed to come from the holiday apartment where she was last seen.

The move indicates that police in Portugal are maintaining their case that Madeleine died in the flat on the night of 3 May and that Kate and Gerry remain prime suspects.

It is believed that the latest tests are designed to bolster the original forensic results from the apartment, which are believed to have found traces of Madeleine's blood.

Experts from the Forensic Science laboratory in Birmingham will also conduct separate tests to establish where DNA already found in the McCanns' apartment came from.

To do this, further samples from the dozens of people who were in the apartment either before or after the girl disappeared are being sent to the laboratory.

Scroll down for more
Kate Gerry McCann

Test results are believed to indicate that police in Portugal are maintaing their case that Maddy died in the flat and that Kate and Gerry remain prime suspects
Read more...

* Madeleine: Suspect Murat translated as police questioned Tapas Nine
* Madeleine: Forensics expert says inquiry is 'complete waste' because of police blunders at apartment

The decision to submit the new forensic material was taken after a meeting in Leicestershire between Portuguese detectives and the British scientists.

Sources close to the investigation say that the aim is to "bring into sharper focus" the results previously sent to Portugal and to remove any possible alternative explanations for these findings.

Today's disclosures follow persistent claims, in the UK and Portugal, that the value of the forensic findings had been wrecked by the police failure to seal off the scene for weeks.

Scroll down for more
McCann apartment front

New evidence has been found at the McCann's apartment in Praia da Luz

Sceptics have also claimed that the slow pace of the Portuguese investigation mean that the inquiry is running aground.

Sources in Britain dismiss such claims and say that although progress is methodical rather than spectacular, the new tests are intended to firm up the case being built by Portuguese detectives.

"New material is being sent and tests will be conducted to eliminate some people and to shine a brighter light on the results that have already been found," said one source close to the investigation."

"There is no dramatic change in the course of the inquiry and although progress might be slower than some people might expect, that does not mean that nothing is happening."

The new forensic tests come three months after a first batch of findings were sent to Portugal by experts from the Forensic Science Service.

The arrival of these initial results led to the McCanns being named as official suspects, although both continue to strongly deny any involvement in their daughter's disappearance.

No official confirmation of what these tests found has been provided, but leaks from Portugal suggest they include spots of Madeleine's blood in the Praia da Luz apartment and traces of her bodily fluids and hair in the couple's hire car.

 

[Pinkhammer]

Portuguese Police must have sizable samples of DNA evidence, if they can keep testing it over and over.

No wonder the McCanns are acting nervous.