Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread No. 25

[CaliKid]

Dophinmomcca, a clue to your question comes in a hagiographic piece about the McCanns written on 16 December 2007 by 'The Times' journalist (cough) David James Smith.

Here's the relevant extract:

QUOTE

At about 7.30pm, Kate and Gerry showered and changed and sat down to have a quiet glass of the sauvignon blanc. They were first to the table at the restaurant at 8.35 and spent some minutes talking to a couple from Hertfordshire – two more tennis players – at the next table, who were eating with their young children. As they chatted, Gerry thought how lucky he was, his children asleep nearby, he and Kate free to come and enjoy some adult time at the restaurant and not have to sit with their children, as this couple were.

And that's the whole problem. For all the time the McCanns spent with Madeleine and the twins on the supposed "family" vacation, they would've been better off leaving them with family back in the UK and going off for a week by themselves.

 

[Barnaby]

And that's the whole problem. For all the time the McCanns spent with Madeleine and the twins on the supposed "family" vacation, they would've been better off leaving them with family back in the UK and going off for a week by themselves.

Exactly Calikid but then again I suppose when Madeleine had such monsters for parents, it really was an accident waiting to happen whether in UK or abroad!

 

[Dolphinmomcca]

thanks for all your imput, I still dont know what to make of this case.......I truly hope Madeleine is out there alive somewhere, but if she is not, then I hope she is finding peace playing among the Angels.

 

[Texana]

I think that Kate (and perhaps Gerry, who I don't believe thinks about things as much as Kate does) wanted children so much, and had them later, and had a very idealized view of how that would all work out.

Maddie, unfortunately, was not a child who fit that idealized dream.

Whatever happened to her that night, was not only due to the fact that the children were left alone or sedated, but due to the fact that Maddie's nature was perhaps not one to be left alone. A child who would give kidnappers "her tuppence's worth" is not a child who would quietly or easily go to sleep waiting for parents when she wanted them with her.

She may have cried so hard she aspirated, she may have fallen and suffered a head injury, she may have suffered a sedation overdose. Only a very few people know that truth.

The McCanns had another set of children, in vitro, that were twins, and these children were of a very different nature than Maddie. Being twins, they could keep each other company and not demand parental attention. They were more easy going and more compliant. They were just far easier children for parents like Kate and Gerry.

Being parents was hard for Kate and Gerry, but unlike parents of earlier generations were either working professionals or upper class wealthy, they were supposed to enjoy profusely time with their children. They came on vacation without a nanny because how would that look? They would not be the loving parents they knew themselves to be--so they tried to have it both ways. They wanted to have some "adult time" but they wanted to be the "responsible parents."

 

[feynmanadmirer]

I think that Kate (and perhaps Gerry, who I don't believe thinks about things as much as Kate does) wanted children so much, and had them later, and had a very idealized view of how that would all work out.

Maddie, unfortunately, was not a child who fit that idealized dream.

Whatever happened to her that night, was not only due to the fact that the children were left alone or sedated, but due to the fact that Maddie's nature was perhaps not one to be left alone. A child who would give kidnappers "her tuppence's worth" is not a child who would quietly or easily go to sleep waiting for parents when she wanted them with her.

She may have cried so hard she aspirated, she may have fallen and suffered a head injury, she may have suffered a sedation overdose. Only a very few people know that truth.

The McCanns had another set of children, in vitro, that were twins, and these children were of a very different nature than Maddie. Being twins, they could keep each other company and not demand parental attention. They were more easy going and more compliant. They were just far easier children for parents like Kate and Gerry.

Being parents was hard for Kate and Gerry, but unlike parents of earlier generations were either working professionals or upper class wealthy, they were supposed to enjoy profusely time with their children. They came on vacation without a nanny because how would that look? They would not be the loving parents they knew themselves to be--so they tried to have it both ways. They wanted to have some "adult time" but they wanted to be the "responsible parents."

Looks like the insider's info to me.

 

[colomom]

Looks like the insider's info to me.

I agree, it is amazing how Tex is able to so logically explain the thought processes and feelings that the McCanns may have had. Tex makes a TON of sense.

Great post! :clap:

 

[Tony Bennett]

Here's the crucial part of Dianne Webster's statement, just released and translated today:

++++++++++++

Regarding yesterday, she went to the beach with his grandchildren, his son and daughter. They arrived around 15:45 and left around 18:15 and went to tennis where she remained until 19:00. The reporting was then headed to the apartment with her grandchildren and ten minutes later, his son David, joined. With the help of his beautiful son, they gave the children a bath.

They left the apartment around 20:45 and was accompanied by his son and daughter, they went to join the rest of the restaurant group "TAPAS".

First of all, let's attempt a better translation to work from:

QUOTE

"Regarding yesterday [3rd May], I went to the beach with my grandchildren, my son-in-law David and my daughter Fiona. We arrived at the beach around 3.45pm and stayed there about two-and-a-half hours staying until around 6.15pm.

We all then went off to tennis where I remained until 7.00pm.

I then went back to our apartment with my grandchildren. Ten minutes later [7.10pm], David came back.

With the help of my lovely son-in-law, we gave the children a bath.

We all three left our apartment around 8.45pm where we went to join the rest of our group of friends at the 'Tapas bar'".

UNQUOTE

Now for the queries:

1. Did they really stay at the beach from 3.45pm to 6.15pm? No, they were filmed on CCTV at the Paraiso at between 5pm and 6pm (see August News of the World article).

2. No mention of seeing Kate jogging at around 5.20pm as some of the other 'Tapas 9' claim.

3. She is vague about her separation from David and Fiona at 7.00pm. Did all three of them stay on the tennis court until 7.00pm? She does not say so.

4. She says she returns to the flat with her grandchildren. She does not mention Fiona.

5. She says David came back at 7.10pm. Once again she does not mention Fiona.

6. So where was Fiona?

7. She makes no mention of (a) Gerry McCann asking David Payne to visit Kate McCann nor (b) of David going up to the McCanns' apartment at around 6.20pm/6.30pm

8. Her statement does not exclude the possibility that she did not see David between 6.15pm and 7.10pm - nearly an hour. Where exactly was he?

9. This is a very 'spare' statement with very little detail given. I might characterise and describe it as: 'evasive'

++++++++

All I can think of for now

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Barnaby]

^^^^

Indeed a very evasive statement Tony & one with obvious lies regarding tea in the Paraiso! We have all seen the pic!

The "lovely" son in law seems strange, why would she make a point of saying that?

The thought of David Payne bathing kids makes my skin crawl!

 

[Texana]

I agree, it is amazing how Tex is able to so logically explain the thought processes and feelings that the McCanns may have had. Tex makes a TON of sense.

Great post! :clap:

Thanks, and back atcha! :blowkiss:

 

[soyesterday]

Well, I think that Madeleine was a child with some degree of special needs. They may have tried hard to have a child but perhaps Madeleine wasn't exactly the perfect child that they desired. I don't believe that she was a loved child.
If the death was not premeditated i.e. a blow struck in a fit of temper, then no motive would be neccessary, just a blatant disregard for a child that should have been much loved!

Hi
This is the first time i 've posted about Maddie, but i've followed her story for so long.
I took a long break from it ,because it was really too upsetting for me to think about.
I hang out on Caylee's forum right now.
I never thought of the idea that Maddie might not have been a "loved" child. My word...what a terrible thought.
I guess i have more to catch up on than i thought.
Did Kate and Gerry actually show signs that they preferred the twins over Maddie?
In your opinion or anyone else's here, do you think their grief they show on tv is actually maybe guilt?
If they did do something to Maddie, God forbid, what do you think it will take for one of them to crack?
Also, are we getting any closer to finding out what really happened to her?
Like i said, i had to stay away from the story for a while, so i'd really really like to know.
Thanks so much.

 

[CaliKid]

Hi
~snip~
Did Kate and Gerry actually show signs that they preferred the twins over Maddie?

I don't know that "preferred" is the proper word, but one memory comes to mind and it was filmed. Getting on the plane to go to Portugal, Madeleine tripped on the stairs and neither parent helped her up.

In your opinion or anyone else's here, do you think their grief they show on tv is actually maybe guilt?

I think they fake their grief and hope to God their never found out.

If they did do something to Maddie, God forbid, what do you think it will take for one of them to crack?

At this point I don't think either Kate or Gerry will ever tell the truth, not even if Madeleine's body is located.

Also, are we getting any closer to finding out what really happened to her?

No, but the released documents are opening the case to public scrutiny of the movements of the McCanns and their friends.

Like i said, i had to stay away from the story for a while, so i'd really really like to know.
Thanks so much.

Thanks for joining us.

 

[Barnaby]

Hi Soyesterday, nice to see you! Cali has answered your questions very well, I agree with what she says. I would just add, there are rumours that they tried to have Madeleine adopted last year, I don't know how true these are but certainly worrying!

 

[Dutchess]

Hi Soyesterday, nice to see you! Cali has answered your questions very well, I agree with what she says. I would just add, there are rumours that they tried to have Madeleine adopted last year, I don't know how true these are but certainly worrying!

What rumours are these? I've never heard that before... Could you elaborate?

Thanks!
Dutchess

 

[soyesterday]

Thanks Cali and Barnaby for the welcome and for my answering my questions so quick
Rumors of adoption????
That IS worrying like you said!!!!

 

[Niner]

did you all see these pictures from colomom's story on Ryan Murphy - in post #27????? it compares Robert Murat and David Payne's pictures - uncanny ALIKE??!!! or what???!!! I've posted the url below - the pictures are on the right side right under the pictures of "Gerry in America"


http://frommybigdesk.blogspot.com/2008/08/ryan-murphys-quick-thinking-saved.html

 

[Barnaby]

What rumours are these? I've never heard that before... Could you elaborate?

Thanks!
Dutchess

Thanks Cali and Barnaby for the welcome and for my answering my questions so quick
Rumors of adoption????
That IS worrying like you said!!!!

This was said in a thread on the 3A's a long time ago, a poster had a relation who was a Social Worker & claimed that the McCanns had tried to have Madeleine adopted last year. I will try to find the link but it is a long time ago, perhaps someone else kept a note of it & would post.

If you have a look at the list of questions that PJ asked & Kate did not answer one asks is it true that they tried to hand the care of Madeleine over to a relative.

 

[Barnaby]

did you all see these pictures from colomom's story on Ryan Murphy - in post #27????? it compares Robert Murat and David Payne's pictures - uncanny ALIKE??!!! or what???!!! I've posted the url below - the pictures are on the right side right under the pictures of "Gerry in America"


http://frommybigdesk.blogspot.com/2008/08/ryan-murphys-quick-thinking-saved.html

Absolutely Niner, uncanny resemblance! However, I am not 100% convinced yet that Murat did not play some part in this mystery. Remember Gerry did not answer when asked if he knew him?

Or perhaps he is innocent & the Tapas crew fingered him for that exact reason, his resemblance to Payne! Very convenient!

 

[Texana]

Absolutely Niner, uncanny resemblance! However, I am not 100% convinced yet that Murat did not play some part in this mystery. Remember Gerry did not answer when asked if he knew him?

Or perhaps he is innocent & the Tapas crew fingered him for that exact reason, his resemblance to Payne! Very convenient!

I think they also picked on him out of sheer prejudice--he's a divorced guy, lives alone with his mother, and has a slightly irregular appearance. Obviously, he's Not One Of Us.

I'm sure in blaming him, they felt perfectly justified in their own shallow way.

 

[CaliKid]

IMO, Robert Murat made a very convenient scapegoat. I think the McCanns were thrilled to death when he was charged as an arguido. They probably hoped he'd be arrested, tried and found guilty, taking the questions about Madeleine's disappearance with him.

 

[Salem]

Hi Soyesterday, nice to see you! Cali has answered your questions very well, I agree with what she says. I would just add, there are rumours that they tried to have Madeleine adopted last year, I don't know how true these are but certainly worrying!

Ditto to what Barnaby says here! Cali has given the thoughts of many of us here.

Welcome Soyesterday. AND Cali - its good to see you here again! :Banane35:

Salem