Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #14

[Newthoughts]

he handed her to someone.

It does seem the best explanation. She was nearly 4, so difficult enough to carry and open doors . Impossible to climb through a window with. But that adds an accomplice.

The other possibility is in through window out thru door

Did they ever determine how the shutters had been opened

 

[Chiatos]

The Luz blog linked by the poster upstream

The blog doesn't say that?
Besides, we know that it's very doable to pin point the location of a phone based on the data collected by cell masts and I trust that German LE has found a way to do just that for the data from 2007.

 

[Sharkbite]

Were CB and NF really a couple? and what about RN?

Ever since I heard the name Roman (as he was known as back in early June) he has been a bit of a dark horse to me.

Dark horse. ... A dark horse is a previously less known person that emerges to prominence in a situation/investigation, especially when involving multiple persons.

Was RN, NF's true boyfriend, and not CB as Sexta9 states? I believe DF and the friend of NF when they say that NF/CB were never romantically involved, and that they were just good friends.

In LS's very first interview she says that RN was the boyfriend, she mentions that at some point CB turned up. This suggests RN was at Foral before CB.

When OS was asked by Sexta9 if NF/CB were a couple, he replied yes, and that is what LS had told him. (as he awkwardly scratches the back of his neck) maybe the awkwardness was due to the fact that OS wasn't even around at that time and wasn't sure of the facts? Why does OS contradict what LS said? As usual something doesn't add up.

The fact that RN was still around long after CB was said to have left Foral, again suggests that NF/RN were still in a relationship.Witnesses have stated that this was the summer 2007 after CB found LW with the Romanians and returned her to Foral. LW disappeared again, CB disappeared shortly after her.
Police reports state that LW went missing in Sept 2008 and returned 11 days later with the Ukrainians. However, NF also told the police that LW had run away previously to Albufeira, but doesn't state exactly when.

A couple of people have mentioned to me that there was maybe some 3way action going on. I don't think so. NF might have had a fling with CB at one point, but I doubt even that.

CB was only staying over sporadically at the house in Foral, AD in her statement says that CB used to do odd jobs for her parents in return for showers and that CB was sleeping in his VW van in June 2007. CB used to park his VW her parents place and at at the O Foral restaurant. If CB/NF were a couple, wouldn't he be showering, parking and sleeping at the house? To me it doesn't sound like CB/NF were a couple at all.

From Olive Press June 8th
Police turned up looking for RN several times but did not reveal to Silva why.
"He received some serious looking legal letters from Lisbon, so maybe it was related to that" Silva said.

Before Foral hit the headlines I read that NF was pregnant when she first met CB and somehow worked out that it was in early 2006. *This needs to be checked, lots of new info since back then with dates and details that I'm not 100% on top of yet.*

Undated photo of NF/RN? on Albufeira beach -Titled: Mein Mann und Ich am Strand -My husband and I on the beach. Is the man in the photo actually RN?

A child named L***A was mentioned in the Sexta9 subtitles? Possibly the child she was carrying when she first met CB? Who would be L****'s father? Edit: Confirmed that L**** is RN's daughter.

Where, when and with who with did LW fall pregnant with? At the house in Foral or on one of her 'outings'?

Why were the police looking for Romano in 2008/9?
What were the legal letters about?
Does he have previous convictions?
What was RN doing to make money back then, possibly something illegal but what, besides maybe selling hash?

Many questions that I don't expect you to have answers for, but if you don't put questions out there, then you wont get many answers

 

[Lilly b]

I’m sure you mean RM, I don’t think SM ever received any compensation as far as I’m aware.

I think they both did

 

[mrjitty]

The blog doesn't say that?
Besides, we know that it's very doable to pin point the location of a phone based on the data collected by cell masts and I trust that German LE has found a way to do just that for the data from 2007.

Based on other cased I wouldn't assume it. Depends on what data could be collected.

For instance in 2007 if he was only connected to one tower you might only have azimuth which gives you approx direction but not location

 

[tedtink]

It places a pre-paid phone that CB was known to have used in 2007 in PDL, just prior to the abduction. Where did he tell police he was on that night when they questioned him in 2013? In PDL or somewhere else? It's just some of the million questions we don't know the answers to at this stage and I personally don't see any reason to read much into that.

Why would we be told what evidence German LE have right now? They have been appealing for the other phone number to confirm it was indeed CB on the phone, and have said if that happens, they have enough to proceed with a charge (although they would also like more evidence - to ensure conviction). IMO they have something major tying him to this crime, hence the very unusual way they've gone about insisting his guilt. They don't have a body or any forensics, so to insist his guilt they must have a lot more than hearsay, unfortunately to get a conviction you need forensics, a body or witnesses.

JMO but I think they have a video or witnesses to a video but that isn't enough to ensure a conviction against CB if he can't be identified in it.

I’m sure you mean RM, I don’t think SM ever received any compensation as far as I’m aware.

Here's yet another link to say that he did receive compensation...........

"Among the false and highly defamatory allegations, many spread luridly across front pages, were claims that Murat and his friends had been part of a paedophile ring, that they had lied to the police, and that DNA evidence of Madeleine had been found in his house"

Madeleine case - Robert Murat waits 10-years for TVi "peadophile" compensation

 

[Tim N]

Based on other cased I wouldn't assume it. Depends on what data could be collected.

For instance in 2007 if he was only connected to one tower you might only have azimuth which gives you approx direction but not location

a tower receives signal noise. if the lobe is pointing in that direction then it indirectly gives azimuth. (the lobes are huge though)

multiple towers allow the noises to be combined to give x,y and z coords. from what i hear there are 4 or 5 towers covering PdL.

it seems more plausible than not, that the user of that phone was where they say he is, IMO.

 

[Tim N]

Here's yet another link to say that he did receive compensation...........

"Among the false and highly defamatory allegations, many spread luridly across front pages, were claims that Murat and his friends had been part of a paedophile ring, that they had lied to the police, and that DNA evidence of Madeleine had been found in his house"

Madeleine case - Robert Murat waits 10-years for TVi "peadophile" compensation

RM?. i thought we all knew RM received compensation?..wasnt it SM that was being suggested?..i think its a fair cop to concede that if SM also received compo then we can rule him out completely.

on the other hand..'perhaps he doth protest to much?'..;-)

 

[Tim N]

Here's yet another link to say that he did receive compensation...........

"Among the false and highly defamatory allegations, many spread luridly across front pages, were claims that Murat and his friends had been part of a paedophile ring, that they had lied to the police, and that DNA evidence of Madeleine had been found in his house"

Madeleine case - Robert Murat waits 10-years for TVi "peadophile" compensation

not really any proven dodgy links in the town are there?..

 

[peanutJelly]

I think they both did

As did RMs girlfriend

 

[Sharkbite]

Has anyone tried to sleuth him on fb? Presumably someone has? Anyone found a likely profile? There’s a lot of CBs so not an uncommon name it seems. The one with the young blond child caught my eye, different surname spelling but weird how that child looks like she couldo be the same age mbm would’ve been at that year. Unlikely I know but strange her appearance is not too dissimilar to what I would imagine she might have looked like at 8/9

Iv'e seen that strange profile/photo before.
There were claims that the photo was edited in the girls right eye and an area behind her. I examined the image and can only agree with that claim.

 

[SuperdadV8]

Iv'e seen that strange profile/photo before.
There were claims that the photo was edited in the girls right eye and an area behind her. I examined the image and can only agree with that claim.

Can you give a little more detail to that please? Is it also recognizable, what person the profile belongs to? I'm not on FB.

 

[Dlk79]

They may have any number of things

I was simply reacting to the idea this places him 'at the scene'

Based on other cases I have followed' detailed evidence over basic tower pings may not even place him in PDL depending on tower range.

A lot is being assumed based on accusation and propensity evidence but we still have not one piece of evidence tying him to the crime.

I am also going to bet there is no video.

If there was a video, the parents would have been informed the victim was abducted.

You should have said 'at the scene' if that's what you meant, you just said in PDL. We don't know what data altogether was gleaned from the towers to pinpoint location, that's one of the the things were discussing. But it does certainly put the phone in PDL.

We've had this debate on the video before. I still don't accept from a legal standpoint that LE have to share such information with the parents. Particularly if it may jeopardise the investigation and especially if the victim is not 100% identifiable.

 

[Sharkbite]

Can you give a little more detail to that please? Is it also recognizable, what person the profile belongs to? I'm not on FB.

A CB sounding name but using a German letter in the surname, nothing other than 1 photo of a 6-8 year old girl posted in 2011 that's had 8 shares but only 1 sharer name visible, thats about it really.

 

[Chiatos]

Were CB and NF really a couple? and what about RN?

Ever since I heard the name Roman (as he was known as back in early June) he has been a bit of a dark horse to me.

Dark horse. ... A dark horse is a previously less known person that emerges to prominence in a situation/investigation, especially when involving multiple persons.

Was RN, NF's true boyfriend, and not CB as Sexta9 states? I believe DF and the friend of NF when they say that NF/CB were never romantically involved, and that they were just good friends.

In LS's very first interview she says that RN was the boyfriend, she mentions that at some point CB turned up. This suggests RN was at Foral before CB.

When OS was asked by Sexta9 if NF/CB were a couple, he replied yes, and that is what LS had told him. (as he awkwardly scratches the back of his neck) maybe the awkwardness was due to the fact that OS wasn't even around at that time and wasn't sure of the facts? Why does OS contradict what LS said? As usual something doesn't add up.

The fact that RN was still around long after CB was said to have left Foral, again suggests that NF/RN were still in a relationship.Witnesses have stated that this was the summer 2007 after CB found LW with the Romanians and returned her to Foral. LW disappeared again, CB disappeared shortly after her.
Police reports state that LW went missing in Sept 2008 and returned 11 days later with the Ukrainians. However, NF also told the police that LW had run away previously to Albufeira, but doesn't state exactly when.

A couple of people have mentioned to me that there was maybe some 3way action going on. I don't think so. NF might have had a fling with CB at one point, but I doubt even that.

CB was only staying over sporadically at the house in Foral, AD in her statement says that CB used to do odd jobs for her parents in return for showers and that CB was sleeping in his VW van in June 2007. CB used to park his VW her parents place and at at the O Foral restaurant. If CB/NF were a couple, wouldn't he be showering, parking and sleeping at the house? To me it doesn't sound like CB/NF were a couple at all.

From Olive Press June 8th
Police turned up looking for RN several times but did not reveal to Silva why.
"He received some serious looking legal letters from Lisbon, so maybe it was related to that" Silva said.

Before Foral hit the headlines I read that NF was pregnant when she first met CB and somehow worked out that it was in early 2006. *This needs to be checked, lots of new info since back then with dates and details that I'm not 100% on top of yet.*

Undated photo of NF/RN? on Albufeira beach -Titled: Mein Mann und Ich am Strand -My husband and I on the beach. Is the man in the photo actually RN?

A child named L***A was mentioned in the Sexta9 subtitles? Possibly the child she was carrying when she first met CB? Who would be L****'s father? Edit: Confirmed that L**** is RN's daughter.

Where, when and with who with did LW fall pregnant with? At the house in Foral or on one of her 'outings'?

Why were the police looking for Romano in 2008/9?
What were the legal letters about?
Does he have previous convictions?
What was RN doing to make money back then, possibly something illegal but what, besides maybe selling hash?

Many questions that I don't expect you to have answers for, but if you don't put questions out there, then you wont get many answers

All valid questions, as RN is still kind of a mystery person.
But one thing: Oliver also got the information from CB that CB and NF were a couple. He says so in the S9 report.
CB and NF slept together on the roof terrace of the house "watching the stars in the sky".
The two ladies who were burgled, also said that CB and NF were a couple and that NF even said that CB was the (adoptive) father of her child.

I believe that Oliver was telling the truth, so say that it was CB who lied to Oliver;
Say that CB made the story up that NF and he were a couple.
Say that NF made up the story that CB and she were a couple.
Then there is a reason for making up that story. What is the reason for them keeping up appearances?
Even if they hadn't been a couple physically, it seems that they pretended to be a couple, which makes them having a bond together anyhow. Why would they do that? For some alibi? Protection? Either way they chose to stick together.

Why do you believe that they were not a couple? On what basis? By what source?

 

[SuperdadV8]

A CB sounding name but using a German letter in the surname, nothing other than 1 photo of a 6-8 year old girl posted in 2011 that's had 8 shares but only 1 sharer name visible, thats about it really.

TY for the info! That assumes, that the profile already exists for a while. Of course, due to the colour and cut of the little girls hair, there could be some similarities to MM. Also the shape of eyes. IMO that girl looks more like 5-6 years old.

I wonder, if L.E. is aware of that....

 

[Chiatos]

Can you give a little more detail to that please? Is it also recognizable, what person the profile belongs to? I'm not on FB.

Idem

 

[mrjitty]

The blog doesn't say that?
Besides, we know that it's very doable to pin point the location of a phone based on the data collected by cell masts and I trust that German LE has found a way to do just that for the data from 2007.

Based on other cases I wouldn't assume it. Depends on what data could be collected.

For instance in 2007 if he was only connected to one tower you might only have azimuth which gives you approx direction but not location

You should have said 'at the scene' if that's what you meant, you just said in PDL. We don't know what data altogether was gleaned from the towers to pinpoint location, that's one of the the things were discussing. But it does certainly put the phone in PDL.

We've had this debate on the video before. I still don't accept from a legal standpoint that LE have to share such information with the parents. Particularly if it may jeopardise the investigation and especially if the victim is not 100% identifiable.

The luz blog cited upthread pointed out that the tower may not place him in PdL

Hence why I raised it as a further point

Personally I think all this speculation is pointless without the actual evidence.

 

[Sharkbite]

All valid questions, as RN is still kind of a mystery person.
But one thing: Oliver also got the information from CB that CB and NF were a couple. He says so in the S9 report.
CB and NF slept together on the roof terrace of the house "watching the stars in the sky".
The two ladies who were burgled, also said that CB and NF were a couple and that NF even said that CB was the (adoptive) father of her child.

I believe that Oliver was telling the truth, so say that it was CB who lied to Oliver;
Say that CB made the story up that NF and he were a couple.
Say that NF made up the story that CB and she were a couple.
Then there is a reason for making up that story. What is the reason for them keeping up appearances?
Even if they hadn't been a couple physically, it seems that they pretended to be a couple, which makes them having a bond together anyhow. Why would they do that? For some alibi? Protection? Either way they chose to stick together.

Why do you believe that they were not a couple? On what basis? By what source?

It's more the fact that there is more evidence that RN/NF were in a relationship than there is that she was with CB

RN was in Foral with NF, before, during, and after CB according to LS's initial statement.
RN is the father of L**** with NF. At least on paper he is.
DF says that NF was never romantically involved with CB
NF's friend also states that NF/CB were never romantically involved.

Also, it would be a strange relationship if your gf doesn't allow you to shower/sleep in the home or even allow you park your van in the yard, no?

 

[Zyxhg987]

Madeleine McCann police 'searching allotment in Germany' as area screened off