Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #16

[SuperdadV8]

Whatsoever is behind Hannover searches it had a relieving effect on CB who filed his appeal again right next day and he had waived it days before. That tells us he expected police to be in the right path and learned they aren't

I wouldn't be too convinced about that assumption!

At this stage in the investigation, the excavation of the garden plot demanded a search warrant from a judge in Braunschweig ("Ermittlungsrichter; Paragraf 162 Abs.1 Strafprozessordnung"), because C.B. has not been legally charged yet and Braunschweig Prosecuters are in charge of the investigation! Even if the garden plot is located in Hannover.

A lawful search warrant on properties, that do not even belong to a suspect, needs to be justified (Paragraf 103 Strafprozessordnung) and has to be requested on substancial facts, that there is likely evidence to discover.

So the Braunschweig court already has knowledge of facts, that made it possible to release the search warrant. In a wide known case, everybody is talking about. Even befriended judges would talk about it at lunch e.g..

So the C.B. appeal at Braunschweig court to be released, was likely more hopeless than promising and once the decision is made, there would have been no second chance for another appeal in Kiel. Even F.F. should have been informed of the garden plot raid by monday morning media!

IMO That's all about the new appeal in Kiel!

The search warrant due to the excavation gives me a lot more hope, that facts have been discovered, that weren't discovered yet some years ago. L.E. is not able to dig up grounds without judicial permission. And it is highly recommended to get that permission. In case of trial, the evidence has to be taken on a lawful and valid way. Otherwise they will be ruled out, due to evidence bans!

 

[Tim N]

Although probably just another in a long line of coincidences. One of the sentenced in the German busts for procuring children for severe sexual abuse and supplying the Darknet with child abuse videos is a Mr. HV. Charges stemmed from 2008-2018

The suspect that was held for 6 months in the 1996 Stieler case, where the girl was heading to a disco 500 meters from the kiosk in Braunschwieg but ended up murdered and dismembered and spread between Braunschweig and Hanover, he was also a Mr. HV.
BKA had to finally let him go because the could not find the final evidence to send him down.

That the poor girls legs were found close 2-4km to a known CB hangout in Hanover, maybe just another coincidence?

Would it be just another coincidence if CB and HV did know each other?*Hypothetical

there are literally dozens (maybe over 100) of these anecdotes that seem very coincidental on their own, and in the least, interestingly compelling when put together.

So many related themes like groups, locations, activities, associates, drug running popping up...it could be a product of extra scrutiny for sure.

the people going missing, assaulted or murdered within a small radius of CB's whereabouts and/or properties has to be a red flag.

This is the sort of thing I believe has happened.

Police don't have a video or photo. Rather the friends have placed him in the frame for MM due to statements, something they saw, and other circumstantial evidence.

As the rape was a match, LE therefore has high conviction in the theory of the case

But they lack anything that connects CB to the crime.

Now under old school investigative theory, in the theory of the case is correct, investigating CB should turn up more evidence.

But if the theory is not correct, they won't find anything.

edit: someone posted an answer to my post a few posts after..

 

[Sharkbite]

Exactly.
Nobody knows what LE have found though.
Did CB expect something to be found I wonder?
But still LE stay quiet

Maybe because their spokesman is out of office until Monday

 

[Sharkbite]

Maybe there were 2 rapes on the video found at PDL, that would explain it.
The video and camcorder were scrapped in a vehicle, hence the actual rape of lady was not shown in the Court case of the 72 year old lady.

Iv'e always found this detail confusing, the scrapped Blue Bedford was purchased in the weeks before the arrest. At the time of arrest the vans papers had not yet been transferred to CB's name, the transfer must have been completed at some point, otherwise LE couldn't have later confiscated it.

This could also be the van MT mentions that he slept in at the farmhouse pre arrest.

After release, there are no mentions of CB with the Bedford, only the VW

Police went to collect payment for CB's unpaid fines, the only address they had would have probably been the scrapyard. CB wasn't there, so the Bedford was confiscated and stood somewhere (Portimao?) in the police pound until finally destroyed.

Has anyone actually said that there were videos and a camcorder 'hidden' in the Bedford or is it just media spin? There are not that many hiding places in an old banged out Bedford. Not sure if the van was crushed or dismantled, if the latter then surely a camcorder would have been found in the process.

I did wonder about this when I heard that it was destroyed and it has bugged me since. Can anyone pls clarify.

 

[SuperdadV8]

I have found an interesting picture of Barranco das Canas, already known as Praia do Alemao near Portimao. C.B. is said to have frequented Portimao.

As you can see in the pic, there are similar wooden posts of the fence, seen in the pic with the T3 Westfalia and it is the first time, i see these posts in Portgual-beach-pics. What do you think?

Maybe it's worth to take another look at that area to locate the spot.

After a quick look at google earth, the beach is even accessible by car. We've had that pic before in here IMO, but the fence must have been renewed!

Barranco das Canas (Alemão) Strand, Portimão - Algarve

 

[Chiatos]

MT bleached his hair so could perhaps be his blonde friend.

That is a possibility of course....!
But then he would also have to have worn light coloured contact lenses to fit the description of CB's friend.
And perhaps be less bald too.

 

[mrjitty]

We’re in agreement, for a change, @mrjitty
While instant access to news is a great concept, unfortunately it means there’s more importance placed on getting a story out there “first” for clicks, rather than taking the time to report correctly. As we’ve repeatedly seen on this forum with MSM and with the Telegraph today, the attitude seems to be “just get it out there, it can always be edited later”. No formal retractions necessary

It happens a lot with foreign language stories unfortunately - as many of these operations are under resourced whereas in the old days large papers would have had a foreign news desk and proper translation

We've seen on this case that they are often using google translate

It is also common to just take a brief from prosecution or defence and print that, rather than report from the primary source. I've seen this on cases where the media don't attend the case - as sadly dedicated court reporters are thin on the ground these days

 

[Dlk79]

Iv'e always found this detail confusing, the scrapped Blue Bedford was purchased in the weeks before the arrest. At the time of arrest the vans papers had not yet been transferred to CB's name, the transfer must have been completed at some point, otherwise LE couldn't have later confiscated it.

This could also be the van MT mentions that he slept in at the farmhouse pre arrest.

After release, there are no mentions of CB with the Bedford, only the VW

Police went to collect payment for CB's unpaid fines, the only address they had would have probably been the scrapyard. CB wasn't there, so the Bedford was confiscated and stood somewhere (Portimao?) in the police pound until finally destroyed.

Has anyone actually said that there were videos and a camcorder 'hidden' in the Bedford or is it just media spin? There are not that many hiding places in an old banged out Bedford. Not sure if the van was crushed or dismantled, if the latter then surely a camcorder would have been found in the process.

I did wonder about this when I heard that it was destroyed and it has bugged me since. Can anyone pls clarify.

I didn't get the impression the vehicle that was allegedly scrapped containing the tape was the Bedford. Haven't seen that direct link made but it's not clear what vehicle it was either, some reports I read said it was a van, in others I've seen it referred to as a caravan.

 

[tedtink]

Again, we only have MT's word that there was a stash of money and passports in the farmhouse. I think that CB was more interested in the removal of the offensive videos than anything else. IMO robbing diesel from lorries isn't something one does if one has a stash of cash and valuables.

Unless he is a kleptomaniac of course
eta- Maybe the diesel thefts were MT's idea.
CB is said to have stolen 100s of passports too - They didn't seem to have any monetary value for him from all accounts.

 

[mrjitty]

This is all very confusing to me. And soon I won't even know what's right anymore.

This in advance: Already weeks ago I had contacted the Mail, the Sun and the portal "Anorak" by e-mail - very friendly - because they had written nonsense all the time. Of course I have not received an answer until today. Maybe my letterhead was too intimidating or my English too bad.

If the tabloids make up their own stories, that's fine, but in my opinion it is more prose than news. But if it refers to German media, at a time when these false reports are not yet in any German newspaper, and then the following day the German tabloid media copy the same nonsense from the English and embellish it further, then the whole thing becomes a farce for the consumer.

I believe in the case of reporting on CB / MM aspiring media scientists can work off later and earn academic merit.

RSBM

This is why we should not use any tabloid sources on the forum IMO.

I mean it is a running joke of the case what we can produce dozens of supposed abductors down the years - all excitedly talked up by the Mail and co which were 95% nonsense they cut from whole cloth.

Remember only recently the Met were supposedly flying out to eastern europe hot on the tail of the woman in purple?

It's all nonsense, and as we've seen in the last 24 hours, they cannot even correctly report a wire story.

 

[Sharkbite]

I didn't get the impression the vehicle that was allegedly scrapped containing the tape was the Bedford. Haven't seen that direct link made but it's not clear what vehicle it was either, some reports I read said it was a van, in others I've seen it referred to as a caravan.

Considering it was CB/MT's Bedford van that LE impounded, and the only vehicle known to have been scrapped by LE, I would think its safe to assume that the scrapped vehicle mentioned was the Bedford.

Might be wrong though

 

[Dlk79]

Considering it was CB/MT's Bedford van that LE impounded, and the only vehicle known to have been scrapped by LE, I would think its safe to assume that the scrapped vehicle mentioned was the Bedford.

Might be wrong though

The van in question I interpreted as belonging to one of the friends who burgled the farmhouse, not CB or MT. Not sure though.

To be honest, I have doubts over whether there even was a van. Or at least that the tape was scrapped in one. I think the story may be embellished to cover up what they really did with the tape. In MT's interview he says he thinks they burned the tape, so that's yet another version of the story.

JMO but I have a feeling they may have given the tape and all the other stash back to CB when he got out of prison. Early reports made out that these friends went to rob CB's house while he was in prison (and presumably kept his stuff). We then later find out that it's actually CB who asked them to raid the house. Haven't seen anything to prove they didn't honour what they were asked to do and just get his belongings out for him and hand them over when he got out.

ETA: I can also imagine them making up the scrapped van story though IF they had indeed burned the tape as MT claimed. Deliberate destruction of evidence would have made them directly complicit in covering up a crime. Making out they forgot about the tape and it got scrapped with a vehicle doesn’t make them look as bad.

 

[Miss_Paula]

I wouldn't be too convinced about that assumption!

At this stage in the investigation, the excavation of the garden plot demanded a search warrant from a judge in Braunschweig ("Ermittlungsrichter; Paragraf 162 Abs.1 Strafprozessordnung"), because C.B. has not been legally charged yet and Braunschweig Prosecuters are in charge of the investigation! Even if the garden plot is located in Hannover.

A lawful search warrant on properties, that do not even belong to a suspect, needs to be justified (Paragraf 103 Strafprozessordnung) and has to be requested on substancial facts, that there is likely evidence to discover.

So the Braunschweig court already has knowledge of facts, that made it possible to release the search warrant. In a wide known case, everybody is talking about. Even befriended judges would talk about it at lunch e.g..

So the C.B. appeal at Braunschweig court to be released, was likely more hopeless than promising and once the decision is made, there would have been no second chance for another appeal in Kiel. Even F.F. should have been informed of the garden plot raid by monday morning media!

IMO That's all about the new appeal in Kiel!

The search warrant due to the excavation gives me a lot more hope, that facts have been discovered, that weren't discovered yet some years ago. L.E. is not able to dig up grounds without judicial permission. And it is highly recommended to get that permission. In case of trial, the evidence has to be taken on a lawful and valid way. Otherwise they will be ruled out, due to evidence bans!

Very well explained, thank you. I see it absolutely the same way, but could not express it so well.

 

[Newthoughts]

It happens a lot with foreign language stories unfortunately - as many of these operations are under resourced whereas in the old days large papers would have had a foreign news desk and proper translation

We've seen on this case that they are often using google translate

It is also common to just take a brief from prosecution or defence and print that, rather than report from the primary source. I've seen this on cases where the media don't attend the case - as sadly dedicated court reporters are thin on the ground these days

We’re in agreement, for a change, @mrjitty
While instant access to news is a great concept, unfortunately it means there’s more importance placed on getting a story out there “first” for clicks, rather than taking the time to report correctly. As we’ve repeatedly seen on this forum with MSM and with the Telegraph today, the attitude seems to be “just get it out there, it can always be edited later”. No formal retractions necessary

This is all very confusing to me. And soon I won't even know what's right anymore.

This in advance: Already weeks ago I had contacted the Mail, the Sun and the portal "Anorak" by e-mail - very friendly - because they had written nonsense all the time. Of course I have not received an answer until today. Maybe my letterhead was too intimidating or my English too bad.

If the tabloids make up their own stories, that's fine, but in my opinion it is more prose than news. But if it refers to German media, at a time when these false reports are not yet in any German newspaper, and then the following day the German tabloid media copy the same nonsense from the English and embellish it further, then the whole thing becomes a farce for the consumer.

I believe in the case of reporting on CB / MM aspiring media scientists can work off later and earn academic merit.

First of all what is true:

It is true that the video of the rape of the 72 year old was the trigger for the investigation of the MM case. (ITV has presented this quite correctly)

It is true that CB said in a pub on the 10th anniversary of MM's disappearance, "what the heck, we'll have to stop now. She is dead - such a child can be made to disappear".

It is true that CB once bragged to a friend in a pub (and I seem to remember that it was not the same day) and showed him a rape video of himself.

_____

As far as I know, the video of the 2005 rape existed only once, without copies, in the house in PdL in 2006, when CBs two "friends" (who were only supposed to secure the money) took it from the house and stole both: money and camera including video. Later, one of them deliberately put the video in a car that was scrapped.

Years later, these two criminals got their guilty conscience and they went to the police to report what they had seen on the video (which probably contained other cases as well). I suspect the German authorities contacted the Portuguese authorities to assign the case and get more details. I also assume that the two guys testified as witnesses at the court case last year. Unfortunately, I cannot access the court files without a huge effort.

In any case, the video disappeared immediately and therefore could not have been shown in a pub in 2017. So it must have been a different video.

It wouldn't make any sense that two buddies, who had stolen a whole lot of money from him, would suddenly be sitting together with him in a pub again - by chance on the 10th anniversary of MM's disappearance.

Everything I have described above comes from German media and television. Since I was not CB's lapdog, I was not there.

I would be inclined to treat anything from the Daily Mail, Express, Sun and sadly now the Telegraph as suspect. They are recognised by most in the UK as little more that propaganda rags owned largely by tax avoiding billionaires with non dom status. Any story that distracts from domestic issues, particularly at the moment when there is quite a lot of bad things happening, will be published without checking anything let alone translations or sources. You don't need to employ proper journalists to print what they do or to check facts. So they don't waste money on it.

I'd only use sources outside that bubble of influence - so non UK press, TV companies like ITV or BBC or, surprisingly Sky and Guardian and, bizarrely, Daily Mirror.

Or direct quotes from prosecutors and police forces

 

[Sharkbite]

The van in question I interpreted as belonging to one of the friends who burgled the farmhouse, not CB or MT. Not sure though.

To be honest, I have doubts over whether there even was a van. Or at least that the tape was scrapped in one. I think the story may be embellished to cover up what they really did with the tape. In MT's interview he says he thinks they burned the tape, so that's yet another version of the story.

JMO but I have a feeling they may have given the tape and all the other stash back to CB when he got out of prison. Early reports made out that these friends went to rob CB's house while he was in prison (and presumably kept his stuff). We then later find out that it's actually CB who asked them to raid the house. Haven't seen anything to prove they didn't honour what they were asked to do and just get his belongings out for him and hand them over when he got out.

ETA: I can also imagine them making up the scrapped van story though IF they had indeed burned the tape as MT claimed. Deliberate destruction of evidence would have made them directly complicit in covering up a crime. Making out they forgot about the tape and it got scrapped with a vehicle doesn’t make them look as bad.

I think the blame lies with the media jumping on the fact that the van was destroyed and without proof proclaimed that the were videos/camcorder in the van, they could hardly be disproved and it makes good headlines. I don't think they specifically meant the rape videos from the farmhouse.

 

[Pixie Child]

Questions
1. In the first week, Sic News Portugal said the owner of the Monte Judeu house was a German lady. CB did not live there, he took care of the house and the lady's dogs when she wasn't there. May be she is the same woman named by MT and CB's British ex-girlfriend. Could be the house in Monte Judeu the one of the wooden beam?
2. Why the two friends call MT to ask what to do with the CB's videos and stuff? Are they CB's friends or just MT's? Could MT steal his best friend's stash? He had a good alibi and knew where the things were. And only makes sense to fake a messy robbery if you want to cheat the owner, right?
3. What would happen if CB was going around in circles on PDL when he received the call? Would the antenna receive a signal from each of the orientations in a short period of time?
4. Do you know anything about this:
Madeleine McCann police quiz Brit barmaid in Portugal over German ex-boyfriend

So you think MJ could be the friend who removed the hidden stash?

His German ex girlfriend had her freezer searched in 2007. I wonder why - maybe because of the charity collector efit.

 

[mrjitty]

My feeling is they could stand up the garden search warrant based only on what was previously found at the factory.

 

[SuperdadV8]

My feeling is they could stand up the garden search warrant based only on what was previously found at the factory.

IMO that is a bit unlikely, almost 4 years after the "Neuwegersleben search warrant" that must have been made in the I.G. case. But who knows?!

 

[Miss_Paula]

... propaganda rags owned largely by tax avoiding billionaires with non dom status. Any story that distracts from domestic issues, particularly at the moment when there is quite a lot of bad things happening, will be published ...

Thanks, Newthoughts

 

[mrjitty]

IMO that is a bit unlikely, almost 4 years after the "Neuwegersleben search warrant" that must have been made in the I.G. case. But who knows?!

It could be possible where for example, they suspect him of further sexual offences, but only now learned of the cellar.

For example having searched the factory and having found evidence of offences, IMO they could have immediately got a warrant for the garden - but maybe they didn't know about it?