Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #20

[redplanet]

In this programme it is noticable that CB often makes hands gestures similar to one on the photo you are investigating.
Also, there is another photo of him that I never seen before - sitting at a table with friends and drinking
Also, I did not know that a photo of a suspect in MM case showed at German Crimewatch caused someone to make a connection with CB.
Do you know who was the witness that made this photofit?

View attachment 268659

View attachment 268660


View attachment 268661

EDIT: I found it
P.J. POLICE FILES: DEREK FLACK PHOTO FIT ID

DF says the man he saw was age 25-35. The man proposed to him by the police was significantly older.

 

[Tekno]

He looks like he's just finished his shift at the restaurant in Silves.
The waiters there dress in white shirts, black trousers.
The pic could have been taken in the car park there or near to Silves - can't access it on google earth though.
When did he work there?
The colour and growth of the reeds in the daytime pic suggest early spring or late summer imo. ie That's either last years growth which has died off and the new shoots would start to come through at ground level or late summer, early winter where the foliage is turning and dying off.
The grass is very green too.

His clothing looks the same in both pictures.

 

[MENDEL]

In another german forum (allmystery) i read, that the Spiegel-report hasn't been equipped with new info.

But if it gets exciting, maybe by january 2021, i can do that!

I was thinking about any extra pics. Do you know if there are any from article, Herr Super?

 

[SuperdadV8]

I was thinking about any extra pics. Do you know if there are any from article, Herr Super?

Sorry, but i don't Mendel!

 

[Lilly b]

Going back to pictures and videos, I know some are on USB sticks, but would some be saved on the old pc's they found, and would they then have dates on them??

 

[mrjitty]

I can't think of any other case where LEs have presented evidence outside of a trial. I don't know why it's expected.

Evidence has to be disclosed when questioning for example, and in pre-trial discovery and in any preliminary hearings.

In the end the defence will get a lot of time with the evidence because we don't allow trial by ambush

What does make sense is to withhold where you have the suspects under observation and are building your evidence against them. so e.g. you might be able to use future conduct of the suspects where they try to cover their tracks for example.

But this seems odd to me where CB is already in prison.

So I still think the only explanation is somehow to protect a key witness

 

[Victoria Chambers]

Evidence has to be disclosed when questioning for example, and in pre-trial discovery and in any preliminary hearings.

In the end the defence will get a lot of time with the evidence because we don't allow trial by ambush

What does make sense is to withhold where you have the suspects under observation and are building your evidence against them. so e.g. you might be able to use future conduct of the suspects where they try to cover their tracks for example.

But this seems odd to me where CB is already in prison.

So I still think the only explanation is somehow to protect a key witness

Perhaps the conduct part whilst imprisoned is part of the strategy. CB phonecalls and visitors prior to being named. Versus CB calls and visitors since being named. If he required any assistance from any outside cronies, there has to be contact first. So any changes here will have been scrutinised. To be honest, I think they thought a lot more people would have offered up more info in relation to CB invlolvement. They obviously see HB as a credible witness since the DNA conviction he assisted with. HB was clearly telling the truth (he could not have known about the DNA/hair left at that rape scene) but I do wonder, could HB now be taking advantage of this lucky fact? - It still could be a deflection from the fact that MM was targeted by human traffickers for a high price! imo
To me, it is a crime in itself for LE to admit since looking into CB, proof of MM death has been uncovered but no charges can be brought! How so?? X

 

[Chiatos]

@ Super and @MENDEL;
About changing car number plates:
NF had parked a car without numbers plates within the property of the two women.
After some time NF and Lina paid them a visit to place new German number plates that had arrived from Germany on that car and then they left (or drove away?)

Sexta às 9 Episódio 26 - de 17 Jul 2020 - RTP Play - RTP

 

[redplanet]

His clothing looks the same in both pictures.

In the photo with girl, the red background is peculiar. Is it indoors or outdoors? What is the feature at bottom right of photo?

 

[Dlk79]

Since there's not much happening at the moment, thought I'd write out some notes on a recent point of contention.

Planned abduction vs Opportunist crime.

There appears to be two main theories as to what happened to MM at the hands of CB.

A. MM was taken as part of a well planned abduction.

B. CB broke in with little advance planning and took MM (possibly killing her beforehand in 5A).

Since CB was announced as a suspect, I've kept an open mind but for the most part I've leaned towards theory A. Recently, I'm being more swayed to theory B. I think the reason most people believe this was a planned operation centres from how little evidence was left. MM vanished without a trace. For some, the idea that CB opportunistically broke in (perhaps to rob) and took MM without leaving a trace seems too implausible and would have required a huge amount of luck.

There are however, a number of things don't quite add up in the planned abduction theory either. Things, that do make more sense in the scenario of say CB possibly breaking in to burgle, and turning his attention to MM instead. Here's some of the reasons why I'm now leaning toward this being an opportunist effort and, also why I think MM might have died in 5A.

1. CB is no mastermind. If we look at his track record, his known crimes are mostly opportunistic. The DM rape did require some advance planning, but nothing to the level of what abducting MM would have. DM lived in an isolated villa on her own. He broke in dressed in head to toe gear to avoid leaving DNA, attacked her in privacy, then left her there.

2. How could an effective plan really be put together? With MM, he had to work out the movements of various members of the Tapas group who seemed to have quite random checking times. This in a holiday resort with other holiday makers also walking around. He had to get in, carry MM and exit without wakingher. Either out of the window (awkward) or through a door, which he then closed behind him while still carrying her. Then get her to a safe place without being seen. Now I'm not saying those things couldn't have happened but however good the plan, he would have always being relying on some level of luck throughout to not be noticed. Plus, how would he have managed to gather all this intel of the tapas group's routines? Hanging around on the corner each night watching everything would have looked a bit suspect. He might have had insider knowledge but again, how in depth could this be, an OC employee couldn't spend all their time watching the group either. And even if there was an inside source, that doesn't mean that it was with the intention of abduction, someone might have just given him the heads up of when to rob it.

3. Why not pick an easier target? The BKA believe CB killed MM "relatively quickly" which seemingly rules out any abduction to order of MM. They also think CB acted alone. So it begs the question why would he target MM specifically? If it was for his own perversions, there are far easier ways and places to abduct a child.

4. HCW doesn't appear to have ever referred to an abduction/kidnap, only a murder. This is odd, they announced from the start they were investigating CB on suspicion of murder. Why not abduction AND murder? One possibility is that MM was killed in the apartment by CB and then her body removed so technically, there was no abduction. This lends more to the theory he broke in to rob, saw MM and opportunistically tried to abuse her. She woke up, he tried to silence her and killed her. He then took her body to hide the evidence (possibly his DNA) and/or abuse her further.

5. CB re-registered his car the next day. We don't know why he did this but one theory is that it was to provide an alibi that he was in Germany. But if that's the case and it was a planned abduction, why didn't he do it before? It looks more like a reactive move, as though some unforeseen event has triggered it.

6. Police have made no mention of a murder scene. They have said they are looking for places MM's body might have been disposed of, but not where she was killed. It could be because they already know she was killed in the apartment. All the things HCW has said about her death are consistent with that theory, especially about her being killed quickly and not being with CB (or anyone else) for very long.

7. German LE floated the suggestion that the taking of MM might have been 'spontaneous'. Christian Hoppe alluded to this when CB was first announced as a suspect. Conversely, I've not really seen any comments from German LE that strongly suggest a planned operation over an opportunist one.

8. LE have confidence of death but not of abuse. Based on HCW's comments, many people think the material evidence convincing them of death is a photo or video. If it is, why are they not confident that she was abused? They only list this as a suspicion. If MM was taken alive as part of a planned abduction, surely CB would have filmed the abuse given his previous. It's therefore possible CB did not have this opportunity, and perhaps MM was killed during a bungled abuse attempt within 5A itself. The photo may have been post-mortem, possibly showing signs of how she died (strangulation marks etc), something else HCW claims they know.

9. Something only the abductor would know. This comment from HCW suggests CB must have told someone (possibly HB) something true about the crime that wasn't in the public domain. One possibility is that CB was in the apartment when GM or MO did their check and he mentioned something they did. I can't think of any more plausible publicly unknown info that CB might have mentioned that police would be able to verify. While it's possible this event could have happened in a planned abduction, it would seem less likely. If well planned, you'd think he'd strike when he had a bigger window. The scenario sounds more logical in an opportunist effort, where he had no idea of when someone was going to enter and where he might have remained in the apartment for a longer time than he would in a planned in-and-out snatch attempt.

10. CB's previous encounters with random children. We know he masurbated in front of a group of children in a playground. We have another story of him masturbating in front of a group of sleeping schoolgirls. He has a criminal record for twice indecently exposing himself to children in Germany. All these appear to be opportunistic acts. Rather than a well planed operation, IMO it seems more likely that what happened to MM was perhaps along the same lines, perhaps before something went wrong and he panicked. He might have gone in there with the intention of doing it or, turned his mind to it when he went to burgle. Either way, it is more in keeping with his MO that he did something like that rather than go in with the intention of kidnapping her.

All JMO, I expect many will disagree and I'm not looking to change people's minds. Just wanted to collate some ideas I've had recently.

 

[redplanet]

In the photo with girl, the red background is peculiar. Is it indoors or outdoors? What is the feature at bottom right of photo?

For example in Lagos and PdL there are restaurants/bars which have a red wall indoors.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

In the photo with girl, the red background is peculiar. Is it indoors or outdoors? What is the feature at bottom right of photo?

Are they stood in front of a red wall and the item bottom right is a piece of furniture against the wall? Pretty sure it’s indoors.

 

[redplanet]

Since there's not much happening at the moment, thought I'd write out some notes on a recent point of contention.

Planned abduction vs Opportunist crime.

There appears to be two main theories as to what happened to MM at the hands of CB.

A. MM was taken as part of a well planned abduction.

B. CB broke in with little advance planning and took MM (possibly killing her beforehand in 5A).

Since CB was announced as a suspect, I've kept an open mind but for the most part I've leaned towards theory A. Recently, I'm being more swayed to theory B. I think the reason most people believe this was a planned operation centres from how little evidence was left. MM vanished without a trace. For some, the idea that CB opportunistically broke in (perhaps to rob) and took MM without leaving a trace seems too implausible and would have required a huge amount of luck.

There are however, a number of things don't quite add up in the planned abduction theory either. Things, that do make more sense in the scenario of say CB possibly breaking in to burgle, and turning his attention to MM instead. Here's some of the reasons why I'm now leaning toward this being an opportunist effort and, also why I think MM might have died in 5A.

1. CB is no mastermind. If we look at his track record, his known crimes are mostly opportunistic. The DM rape did require some advance planning, but nothing to the level of what abducting MM would have. DM lived in an isolated villa on her own. He broke in dressed in head to toe gear to avoid leaving DNA, attacked her in privacy, then left her there.

2. How could an effective plan really be put together? With MM, he had to work out the movements of various members of the Tapas group who seemed to have quite random checking times. This in a holiday resort with other holiday makers also walking around. He had to get in, carry MM and exit without wakingher. Either out of the window (awkward) or through a door, which he then closed behind him while still carrying her. Then get her to a safe place without being seen. Now I'm not saying those things couldn't have happened but however good the plan, he would have always being relying on some level of luck throughout to not be noticed. Plus, how would he have managed to gather all this intel of the tapas group's routines? Hanging around on the corner each night watching everything would have looked a bit suspect. He might have had insider knowledge but again, how in depth could this be, an OC employee couldn't spend all their time watching the group either. And even if there was an inside source, that doesn't mean that it was with the intention of abduction, someone might have just given him the heads up of when to rob it.

3. Why not pick an easier target? The BKA believe CB killed MM "relatively quickly" which seemingly rules out any abduction to order of MM. They also think CB acted alone. So it begs the question why would he target MM specifically? If it was for his own perversions, there are far easier ways and places to abduct a child.

4. HCW doesn't appear to have ever referred to an abduction/kidnap, only a murder. This is odd, they announced from the start they were investigating CB on suspicion of murder. Why not abduction AND murder? One possibility is that MM was killed in the apartment by CB and then her body removed so technically, there was no abduction. This lends more to the theory he broke in to rob, saw MM and opportunistically tried to abuse her. She woke up, he tried to silence her and killed her. He then took her body to hide the evidence (possibly his DNA) and/or abuse her further.

5. CB re-registered his car the next day. We don't know why he did this but one theory is that it was to provide an alibi that he was in Germany. But if that's the case and it was a planned abduction, why didn't he do it before? It looks more like a reactive move, as though some unforeseen event has triggered it.

6. Police have made no mention of a murder scene. They have said they are looking for places MM's body might have been disposed of, but not where she was killed. It could be because they already know she was killed in the apartment. All the things HCW has said about her death are consistent with that theory, especially about her being killed quickly and not being with CB (or anyone else) for very long.

7. German LE floated the suggestion that the taking of MM might have been 'spontaneous'. Christian Hoppe alluded to this when CB was first announced as a suspect. Conversely, I've not really seen any comments from German LE that strongly suggest a planned operation over an opportunist one.

8. LE have confidence of death but not of abuse. Based on HCW's comments, many people think the material evidence convincing them of death is a photo or video. If it is, why are they not confident that she was abused? They only list this as a suspicion. If MM was taken alive as part of a planned abduction, surely CB would have filmed the abuse given his previous. It's therefore possible CB did not have this opportunity, and perhaps MM was killed during a bungled abuse attempt within 5A itself. The photo may have been post-mortem, possibly showing signs of how she died (strangulation marks etc), something else HCW claims they know.

9. Something only the abductor would know. This comment from HCW suggests CB must have told someone (possibly HB) something true about the crime that wasn't in the public domain. One possibility is that CB was in the apartment when GM or MO did their check and he mentioned something they did. I can't think of any more plausible publicly unknown info that CB might have mentioned that police would be able to verify. While it's possible this event could have happened in a planned abduction, it would seem less likely. If well planned, you'd think he'd strike when he had a bigger window. The scenario sounds more logical in an opportunist effort, where he had no idea of when someone was going to enter and where he might have remained in the apartment for a longer time than he would in a planned in-and-out snatch attempt.

10. CB's previous encounters with random children. We know he masurbated in front of a group of children in a playground. We have another story of him masturbating in front of a group of sleeping schoolgirls. He has a criminal record for twice indecently exposing himself to children in Germany. All these appear to be opportunistic acts. Rather than a well planed operation, IMO it seems more likely that what happened to MM was perhaps along the same lines, perhaps before something went wrong and he panicked. He might have gone in there with the intention of doing it or, turned his mind to it when he went to burgle. Either way, it is more in keeping with his MO that he did something like that rather than go in with the intention of kidnapping her.

All JMO, I expect many will disagree and I'm not looking to change people's minds. Just wanted to collate some ideas I've had recently.

A comment about your #9. His view from his hiding place would be poor or zero, but his hearing would be unimpeded, therefore any knowledge he acquires during a check is more probably by listening, not by seeing, IMO.

 

[redplanet]

Are they stood in front of a red wall and the item bottom right is a piece of furniture against the wall? Pretty sure it’s indoors.

The item looks maybe like a stone balastrude IMO but of course in a restaurant/pub that could be indoors.
ETA or maybe in a bar is it indoors bench seating made of wood, with cushions, with only the backrest part visible?

 

[Newthoughts]

Evidence has to be disclosed when questioning for example, and in pre-trial discovery and in any preliminary hearings.

In the end the defence will get a lot of time with the evidence because we don't allow trial by ambush

What does make sense is to withhold where you have the suspects under observation and are building your evidence against them. so e.g. you might be able to use future conduct of the suspects where they try to cover their tracks for example.

But this seems odd to me where CB is already in prison.

So I still think the only explanation is somehow to protect a key witness

I meant in the context of placing it in the public domain rather than with defence but even in that case it seems sensible to me to gather as much as possible if you have the luxury of time

I agree with you about conduct being a factor but if there are other suspects - if for example CB was selling images - it would make sense to keep them under observation.

I just think if you have a dangerous individual safely locked away - it makes sense to take more time

 

[redplanet]

Since there's not much happening at the moment, thought I'd write out some notes on a recent point of contention.

Planned abduction vs Opportunist crime.

There appears to be two main theories as to what happened to MM at the hands of CB.

A. MM was taken as part of a well planned abduction.

B. CB broke in with little advance planning and took MM (possibly killing her beforehand in 5A).

Since CB was announced as a suspect, I've kept an open mind but for the most part I've leaned towards theory A. Recently, I'm being more swayed to theory B. I think the reason most people believe this was a planned operation centres from how little evidence was left. MM vanished without a trace. For some, the idea that CB opportunistically broke in (perhaps to rob) and took MM without leaving a trace seems too implausible and would have required a huge amount of luck.

There are however, a number of things don't quite add up in the planned abduction theory either. Things, that do make more sense in the scenario of say CB possibly breaking in to burgle, and turning his attention to MM instead. Here's some of the reasons why I'm now leaning toward this being an opportunist effort and, also why I think MM might have died in 5A.

1. CB is no mastermind. If we look at his track record, his known crimes are mostly opportunistic. The DM rape did require some advance planning, but nothing to the level of what abducting MM would have. DM lived in an isolated villa on her own. He broke in dressed in head to toe gear to avoid leaving DNA, attacked her in privacy, then left her there.

2. How could an effective plan really be put together? With MM, he had to work out the movements of various members of the Tapas group who seemed to have quite random checking times. This in a holiday resort with other holiday makers also walking around. He had to get in, carry MM and exit without wakingher. Either out of the window (awkward) or through a door, which he then closed behind him while still carrying her. Then get her to a safe place without being seen. Now I'm not saying those things couldn't have happened but however good the plan, he would have always being relying on some level of luck throughout to not be noticed. Plus, how would he have managed to gather all this intel of the tapas group's routines? Hanging around on the corner each night watching everything would have looked a bit suspect. He might have had insider knowledge but again, how in depth could this be, an OC employee couldn't spend all their time watching the group either. And even if there was an inside source, that doesn't mean that it was with the intention of abduction, someone might have just given him the heads up of when to rob it.

3. Why not pick an easier target? The BKA believe CB killed MM "relatively quickly" which seemingly rules out any abduction to order of MM. They also think CB acted alone. So it begs the question why would he target MM specifically? If it was for his own perversions, there are far easier ways and places to abduct a child.

4. HCW doesn't appear to have ever referred to an abduction/kidnap, only a murder. This is odd, they announced from the start they were investigating CB on suspicion of murder. Why not abduction AND murder? One possibility is that MM was killed in the apartment by CB and then her body removed so technically, there was no abduction. This lends more to the theory he broke in to rob, saw MM and opportunistically tried to abuse her. She woke up, he tried to silence her and killed her. He then took her body to hide the evidence (possibly his DNA) and/or abuse her further.

5. CB re-registered his car the next day. We don't know why he did this but one theory is that it was to provide an alibi that he was in Germany. But if that's the case and it was a planned abduction, why didn't he do it before? It looks more like a reactive move, as though some unforeseen event has triggered it.

6. Police have made no mention of a murder scene. They have said they are looking for places MM's body might have been disposed of, but not where she was killed. It could be because they already know she was killed in the apartment. All the things HCW has said about her death are consistent with that theory, especially about her being killed quickly and not being with CB (or anyone else) for very long.

7. German LE floated the suggestion that the taking of MM might have been 'spontaneous'. Christian Hoppe alluded to this when CB was first announced as a suspect. Conversely, I've not really seen any comments from German LE that strongly suggest a planned operation over an opportunist one.

8. LE have confidence of death but not of abuse. Based on HCW's comments, many people think the material evidence convincing them of death is a photo or video. If it is, why are they not confident that she was abused? They only list this as a suspicion. If MM was taken alive as part of a planned abduction, surely CB would have filmed the abuse given his previous. It's therefore possible CB did not have this opportunity, and perhaps MM was killed during a bungled abuse attempt within 5A itself. The photo may have been post-mortem, possibly showing signs of how she died (strangulation marks etc), something else HCW claims they know.

9. Something only the abductor would know. This comment from HCW suggests CB must have told someone (possibly HB) something true about the crime that wasn't in the public domain. One possibility is that CB was in the apartment when GM or MO did their check and he mentioned something they did. I can't think of any more plausible publicly unknown info that CB might have mentioned that police would be able to verify. While it's possible this event could have happened in a planned abduction, it would seem less likely. If well planned, you'd think he'd strike when he had a bigger window. The scenario sounds more logical in an opportunist effort, where he had no idea of when someone was going to enter and where he might have remained in the apartment for a longer time than he would in a planned in-and-out snatch attempt.

10. CB's previous encounters with random children. We know he masurbated in front of a group of children in a playground. We have another story of him masturbating in front of a group of sleeping schoolgirls. He has a criminal record for twice indecently exposing himself to children in Germany. All these appear to be opportunistic acts. Rather than a well planed operation, IMO it seems more likely that what happened to MM was perhaps along the same lines, perhaps before something went wrong and he panicked. He might have gone in there with the intention of doing it or, turned his mind to it when he went to burgle. Either way, it is more in keeping with his MO that he did something like that rather than go in with the intention of kidnapping her.

All JMO, I expect many will disagree and I'm not looking to change people's minds. Just wanted to collate some ideas I've had recently.

BTW thankyou Dlk79 for your post. About your #10, hypothetically if he also entered the flat in the previous evening (the 2nd) the question is what did he do then?

 

[redplanet]

Since there's not much happening at the moment, thought I'd write out some notes on a recent point of contention.

Planned abduction vs Opportunist crime.

There appears to be two main theories as to what happened to MM at the hands of CB.

A. MM was taken as part of a well planned abduction.

B. CB broke in with little advance planning and took MM (possibly killing her beforehand in 5A).

Since CB was announced as a suspect, I've kept an open mind but for the most part I've leaned towards theory A. Recently, I'm being more swayed to theory B. I think the reason most people believe this was a planned operation centres from how little evidence was left. MM vanished without a trace. For some, the idea that CB opportunistically broke in (perhaps to rob) and took MM without leaving a trace seems too implausible and would have required a huge amount of luck.

There are however, a number of things don't quite add up in the planned abduction theory either. Things, that do make more sense in the scenario of say CB possibly breaking in to burgle, and turning his attention to MM instead. Here's some of the reasons why I'm now leaning toward this being an opportunist effort and, also why I think MM might have died in 5A.

1. CB is no mastermind. If we look at his track record, his known crimes are mostly opportunistic. The DM rape did require some advance planning, but nothing to the level of what abducting MM would have. DM lived in an isolated villa on her own. He broke in dressed in head to toe gear to avoid leaving DNA, attacked her in privacy, then left her there.

2. How could an effective plan really be put together? With MM, he had to work out the movements of various members of the Tapas group who seemed to have quite random checking times. This in a holiday resort with other holiday makers also walking around. He had to get in, carry MM and exit without wakingher. Either out of the window (awkward) or through a door, which he then closed behind him while still carrying her. Then get her to a safe place without being seen. Now I'm not saying those things couldn't have happened but however good the plan, he would have always being relying on some level of luck throughout to not be noticed. Plus, how would he have managed to gather all this intel of the tapas group's routines? Hanging around on the corner each night watching everything would have looked a bit suspect. He might have had insider knowledge but again, how in depth could this be, an OC employee couldn't spend all their time watching the group either. And even if there was an inside source, that doesn't mean that it was with the intention of abduction, someone might have just given him the heads up of when to rob it.

3. Why not pick an easier target? The BKA believe CB killed MM "relatively quickly" which seemingly rules out any abduction to order of MM. They also think CB acted alone. So it begs the question why would he target MM specifically? If it was for his own perversions, there are far easier ways and places to abduct a child.

4. HCW doesn't appear to have ever referred to an abduction/kidnap, only a murder. This is odd, they announced from the start they were investigating CB on suspicion of murder. Why not abduction AND murder? One possibility is that MM was killed in the apartment by CB and then her body removed so technically, there was no abduction. This lends more to the theory he broke in to rob, saw MM and opportunistically tried to abuse her. She woke up, he tried to silence her and killed her. He then took her body to hide the evidence (possibly his DNA) and/or abuse her further.

5. CB re-registered his car the next day. We don't know why he did this but one theory is that it was to provide an alibi that he was in Germany. But if that's the case and it was a planned abduction, why didn't he do it before? It looks more like a reactive move, as though some unforeseen event has triggered it.

6. Police have made no mention of a murder scene. They have said they are looking for places MM's body might have been disposed of, but not where she was killed. It could be because they already know she was killed in the apartment. All the things HCW has said about her death are consistent with that theory, especially about her being killed quickly and not being with CB (or anyone else) for very long.

7. German LE floated the suggestion that the taking of MM might have been 'spontaneous'. Christian Hoppe alluded to this when CB was first announced as a suspect. Conversely, I've not really seen any comments from German LE that strongly suggest a planned operation over an opportunist one.

8. LE have confidence of death but not of abuse. Based on HCW's comments, many people think the material evidence convincing them of death is a photo or video. If it is, why are they not confident that she was abused? They only list this as a suspicion. If MM was taken alive as part of a planned abduction, surely CB would have filmed the abuse given his previous. It's therefore possible CB did not have this opportunity, and perhaps MM was killed during a bungled abuse attempt within 5A itself. The photo may have been post-mortem, possibly showing signs of how she died (strangulation marks etc), something else HCW claims they know.

9. Something only the abductor would know. This comment from HCW suggests CB must have told someone (possibly HB) something true about the crime that wasn't in the public domain. One possibility is that CB was in the apartment when GM or MO did their check and he mentioned something they did. I can't think of any more plausible publicly unknown info that CB might have mentioned that police would be able to verify. While it's possible this event could have happened in a planned abduction, it would seem less likely. If well planned, you'd think he'd strike when he had a bigger window. The scenario sounds more logical in an opportunist effort, where he had no idea of when someone was going to enter and where he might have remained in the apartment for a longer time than he would in a planned in-and-out snatch attempt.

10. CB's previous encounters with random children. We know he masurbated in front of a group of children in a playground. We have another story of him masturbating in front of a group of sleeping schoolgirls. He has a criminal record for twice indecently exposing himself to children in Germany. All these appear to be opportunistic acts. Rather than a well planed operation, IMO it seems more likely that what happened to MM was perhaps along the same lines, perhaps before something went wrong and he panicked. He might have gone in there with the intention of doing it or, turned his mind to it when he went to burgle. Either way, it is more in keeping with his MO that he did something like that rather than go in with the intention of kidnapping her.

All JMO, I expect many will disagree and I'm not looking to change people's minds. Just wanted to collate some ideas I've had recently.

About your #6, if hypothetically BKA do know that death happened in the apartment, then is it reasonable to assume that they also know in which area of the apartment it happened?

 

[Lilly b]

Duplicate

 

[Lilly b]

About your #6, if hypothetically BKA do know that death happened in the apartment, then is it reasonable to assume that they also know in which area of the apartment it happened?

IMO I don't see why he would kill her in the apartment, his history is torture and abuse and filming, and I think that's what he has done before disposing of the body, he doesn't get his kicks from killing, it's the stuff that's happens before, and I'd say he filmed for the dark web, then makes you think, other people will of seen it too

 

[Lilly b]

His clothing looks the same in both pictures.

It does, but you can have the same clothes for years, I was thinking the prev pic, him in black suit thing, and woman with dark hair, could be celebrating when they stole all that money off the 2 sisters?