Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #20

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IMO I don't see why he would kill her in the apartment, his history is torture and abuse and filming, and I think that's what he has done before disposing of the body, he doesn't get his kicks from killing, it's the stuff that's happens before, and I'd say he filmed for the dark web, then makes you think, other people will of seen it too
That's not what I suggested. I don't believe he went in there with any intention of killing her, for perverted kicks or any other reason. I'm saying I can imagine a plausible scenario whereby he attempted to do something perverted while she was asleep and she woke up, causing him to panic and try to silence her. Death resulted. JMO.

You say his history is torture, abuse and filming but that's not necessarily the case when it comes to children. There's no record of him torturing a child or even filming one as far as we know (he did take photos though of his ex's daughter but he manipulated that opportunity through trust). All his perversions against children fit a profile of opportunist voyeurism which is what I'm suggesting may have happened to MM before things got very ugly.
 
That's not what I suggested. I don't believe he went in there with any intention of killing her, for perverted kicks or any other reason. I'm saying I can imagine a plausible scenario whereby he attempted to do something perverted while she was asleep and she woke up, causing him to panic and try to silence her. Death resulted. JMO.

You say his history is torture, abuse and filming but that's not necessarily the case when it comes to children. There's no record of him torturing a child or even filming one as far as we know (he did take photos though of his ex's daughter but he manipulated that opportunity through trust). All his perversions against children fit a profile of opportunist voyeurism which is what I'm suggesting may have happened to MM before things got very ugly.
It has been German LE to investigate a possible link between MM's disappearance and that of Inga.
Based on CB's profile, they are of the opinion that CB is very capable of intentionally abducting a young child and doing horrible stuff afterwards....
 
Perhaps. And dating that pic, too. Málaga pic had German plates and here he's got Portuguese plates.[/QUOTE

What is the reason for all these changing of the plates? I think I would understand if he used Portuguese in Portugal, German in Germany etc. But that doesn't seem to be the reason. I don't get it tbh X
 
It does, but you can have the same clothes for years, I was thinking the prev pic, him in black suit thing, and woman with dark hair, could be celebrating when they stole all that money off the 2 sisters?
The woman with the blurred face? Is probably not NF, but his German gf who had the young daughter that he had abused in the park/playground in Germany.
By the name of Tania(?) Don't remember.
 
Since there's not much happening at the moment, thought I'd write out some notes on a recent point of contention.

Planned abduction vs Opportunist crime.

There appears to be two main theories as to what happened to MM at the hands of CB.

A. MM was taken as part of a well planned abduction.

B. CB broke in with little advance planning and took MM (possibly killing her beforehand in 5A).

Since CB was announced as a suspect, I've kept an open mind but for the most part I've leaned towards theory A. Recently, I'm being more swayed to theory B. I think the reason most people believe this was a planned operation centres from how little evidence was left. MM vanished without a trace. For some, the idea that CB opportunistically broke in (perhaps to rob) and took MM without leaving a trace seems too implausible and would have required a huge amount of luck.

There are however, a number of things don't quite add up in the planned abduction theory either. Things, that do make more sense in the scenario of say CB possibly breaking in to burgle, and turning his attention to MM instead. Here's some of the reasons why I'm now leaning toward this being an opportunist effort and, also why I think MM might have died in 5A.

1. CB is no mastermind. If we look at his track record, his known crimes are mostly opportunistic. The DM rape did require some advance planning, but nothing to the level of what abducting MM would have. DM lived in an isolated villa on her own. He broke in dressed in head to toe gear to avoid leaving DNA, attacked her in privacy, then left her there.

2. How could an effective plan really be put together? With MM, he had to work out the movements of various members of the Tapas group who seemed to have quite random checking times. This in a holiday resort with other holiday makers also walking around. He had to get in, carry MM and exit without wakingher. Either out of the window (awkward) or through a door, which he then closed behind him while still carrying her. Then get her to a safe place without being seen. Now I'm not saying those things couldn't have happened but however good the plan, he would have always being relying on some level of luck throughout to not be noticed. Plus, how would he have managed to gather all this intel of the tapas group's routines? Hanging around on the corner each night watching everything would have looked a bit suspect. He might have had insider knowledge but again, how in depth could this be, an OC employee couldn't spend all their time watching the group either. And even if there was an inside source, that doesn't mean that it was with the intention of abduction, someone might have just given him the heads up of when to rob it.

3. Why not pick an easier target? The BKA believe CB killed MM "relatively quickly" which seemingly rules out any abduction to order of MM. They also think CB acted alone. So it begs the question why would he target MM specifically? If it was for his own perversions, there are far easier ways and places to abduct a child.

4. HCW doesn't appear to have ever referred to an abduction/kidnap, only a murder. This is odd, they announced from the start they were investigating CB on suspicion of murder. Why not abduction AND murder? One possibility is that MM was killed in the apartment by CB and then her body removed so technically, there was no abduction. This lends more to the theory he broke in to rob, saw MM and opportunistically tried to abuse her. She woke up, he tried to silence her and killed her. He then took her body to hide the evidence (possibly his DNA) and/or abuse her further.

5. CB re-registered his car the next day. We don't know why he did this but one theory is that it was to provide an alibi that he was in Germany. But if that's the case and it was a planned abduction, why didn't he do it before? It looks more like a reactive move, as though some unforeseen event has triggered it.

6. Police have made no mention of a murder scene. They have said they are looking for places MM's body might have been disposed of, but not where she was killed. It could be because they already know she was killed in the apartment. All the things HCW has said about her death are consistent with that theory, especially about her being killed quickly and not being with CB (or anyone else) for very long.

7. German LE floated the suggestion that the taking of MM might have been 'spontaneous'. Christian Hoppe alluded to this when CB was first announced as a suspect. Conversely, I've not really seen any comments from German LE that strongly suggest a planned operation over an opportunist one.

8. LE have confidence of death but not of abuse. Based on HCW's comments, many people think the material evidence convincing them of death is a photo or video. If it is, why are they not confident that she was abused? They only list this as a suspicion. If MM was taken alive as part of a planned abduction, surely CB would have filmed the abuse given his previous. It's therefore possible CB did not have this opportunity, and perhaps MM was killed during a bungled abuse attempt within 5A itself. The photo may have been post-mortem, possibly showing signs of how she died (strangulation marks etc), something else HCW claims they know.

9. Something only the abductor would know. This comment from HCW suggests CB must have told someone (possibly HB) something true about the crime that wasn't in the public domain. One possibility is that CB was in the apartment when GM or MO did their check and he mentioned something they did. I can't think of any more plausible publicly unknown info that CB might have mentioned that police would be able to verify. While it's possible this event could have happened in a planned abduction, it would seem less likely. If well planned, you'd think he'd strike when he had a bigger window. The scenario sounds more logical in an opportunist effort, where he had no idea of when someone was going to enter and where he might have remained in the apartment for a longer time than he would in a planned in-and-out snatch attempt.

10. CB's previous encounters with random children. We know he masurbated in front of a group of children in a playground. We have another story of him masturbating in front of a group of sleeping schoolgirls. He has a criminal record for twice indecently exposing himself to children in Germany. All these appear to be opportunistic acts. Rather than a well planed operation, IMO it seems more likely that what happened to MM was perhaps along the same lines, perhaps before something went wrong and he panicked. He might have gone in there with the intention of doing it or, turned his mind to it when he went to burgle. Either way, it is more in keeping with his MO that he did something like that rather than go in with the intention of kidnapping her.

All JMO, I expect many will disagree and I'm not looking to change people's minds. Just wanted to collate some ideas I've had recently.
Some interesting points there some of which I disagree with - tho JMO. I don't think it was a major criminal act for others. There is a middle ground where an opportunity was espied to grab a child and then planned. But re your points:

Point 1) and point 3) You wouldn't need to be a criminal mastermind to choose the McCanns appt. It was perfectly located for thefts and abductions.

Ground floor, bedroom window and front door facing a quietish car park, unlocked patio doors. Easy access, easy exit, absent adults for sufficiently long periods of time. She was an incredibly easy target - can't think of an easier

That's why I think she was taken rather than one of the other children.

And that ties in with point 10) he abused children - why would you go for a few cameras when you'd identified you could just as easily grab a child. Thefts are easy, people leave valuables at home and go out all the timr. Opportunities to abduct a child far rarer usually.

Point 2) The Tapas 7 weren't really that random, they left gaps. Nor do I think they were as frequent and rigorous as they could have been. Their indicator of safe was were the kids asleep i.e. quiet. So many checks were just a walk by the window and listen

So on the night in question she was only seen once, by GM, in all the checks. Also MM cried for quite some time on 1st May - no check picked it up. The kids were alone for long enough periods to act.

There were dark places to lurk and watch as witnesses have stated they'd seen odd characters lurking there before.

So I think he became aware of an opportunity early on - easy location and absent adults - and then watched and planned around it.

Also point 2) He did actually manage to get in, remove her and exit incredibly easily and successfully so clearly not difficult for someone like him. IMO only the only real points of concern would be entry and exit and he was an experienced burglar.

Once in he could leave by the front door and be an ordinary looking bloke carrying a sleeping child in tourist area. A place where people carry their kids from creches or sleepovers or restaurants.

There were two individual sightings of such an event (Tannerman and Smithman) which nobody reacted to.

Point 4) if she was killed in the appt -given his predilections, wouldn't it be as likely to be a failed abduction as a failed theft?

Point 5 is as relevant for a theft as an abduction. I don't think he's that bright anyway

Point 6 police have mentioned very little. IMO if she'd died in the appt there would have been some signs. Rumpled bedding, perhaps blood. There doesn't appear to have been.

Point 7) seeing an opportunity does not preclude then planning to seize that opportunity. Poor little kid presented an ideal opportunity (listed before - ideal location, parents out). That doesn't mean he didn't then plan and watch before exploiting it

Points 8 and 9 material evidence of death and something only the abductor would know could be the same!.

If LE have this material evidence showing how she died - and they've said they know how - that is something only the perpetrator would know. Perhaps that is the information that only the perpetrator would know and that is the smoking gun passed to police?
 
In the photo with girl, the red background is peculiar. Is it indoors or outdoors? What is the feature at bottom right of photo?

Indoors. A painted wall. And that's just decorative wainscoting - ie. very common wooden panelling used to divide/give walls interest.

It just looks like they're in a pub or club.
 
It has been German LE to investigate a possible link between MM's disappearance and that of Inga.
Based on CB's profile, they are of the opinion that CB is very capable of intentionally abducting a young child and doing horrible stuff afterwards....
And what was found when they was looking for inga, brought them to CB, even though he was on the radar before.
 
It has been German LE to investigate a possible link between MM's disappearance and that of Inga.
Based on CB's profile, they are of the opinion that CB is very capable of intentionally abducting a young child and doing horrible stuff afterwards....
That's a fair point. HCW commented they were looking at all similar crimes to see if CB might be a suspect for them.
Some interesting points there some of which I disagree with - tho JMO. I don't think it was a major criminal act for others. There is a middle ground where an opportunity was espied to grab a child and then planned. But re your points:

Point 1) and point 3) You wouldn't need to be a criminal mastermind to choose the McCanns appt. It was perfectly located for thefts and abductions.

Ground floor, bedroom window and front door facing a quietish car park, unlocked patio doors. Easy access, easy exit, absent adults for sufficiently long periods of time. She was an incredibly easy target - can't think of an easier

That's why I think she was taken rather than one of the other children.

And that ties in with point 10) he abused children - why would you go for a few cameras when you'd identified you could just as easily grab a child. Thefts are easy, people leave valuables at home and go out all the timr. Opportunities to abduct a child far rarer usually.

Point 2) The Tapas 7 weren't really that random, they left gaps. Nor do I think they were as frequent and rigorous as they could have been. Their indicator of safe was were the kids asleep i.e. quiet. So many checks were just a walk by the window and listen

So on the night in question she was only seen once, by GM, in all the checks. Also MM cried for quite some time on 1st May - no check picked it up. The kids were alone for long enough periods to act.

There were dark places to lurk and watch as witnesses have stated they'd seen odd characters lurking there before.

So I think he became aware of an opportunity early on - easy location and absent adults - and then watched and planned around it.

Also point 2) He did actually manage to get in, remove her and exit incredibly easily and successfully so clearly not difficult for someone like him. IMO only the only real points of concern would be entry and exit and he was an experienced burglar.

Once in he could leave by the front door and be an ordinary looking bloke carrying a sleeping child in tourist area. A place where people carry their kids from creches or sleepovers or restaurants.

There were two individual sightings of such an event (Tannerman and Smithman) which nobody reacted to.

Point 4) if she was killed in the appt -given his predilections, wouldn't it be as likely to be a failed abduction as a failed theft?

Point 5 is as relevant for a theft as an abduction. I don't think he's that bright anyway

Point 6 police have mentioned very little. IMO if she'd died in the appt there would have been some signs. Rumpled bedding, perhaps blood. There doesn't appear to have been.

Point 7) seeing an opportunity does not preclude then planning to seize that opportunity. Poor little kid presented an ideal opportunity (listed before - ideal location, parents out). That doesn't mean he didn't then plan and watch before exploiting it

Points 8 and 9 material evidence of death and something only the abductor would know could be the same!.

If LE have this material evidence showing how she died - and they've said they know how - that is something only the perpetrator would know. Perhaps that is the information that only the perpetrator would know and that is the smoking gun passed to police?
Also fair points on the whole. Like I said, I'm still not convinced one way or the other, just putting forward some reason why the unplanned scenario makes some sense to me.

Just picking up on some of those points though.

You mentioned people spotted lurking, but these were all in the daytime. If he was monitoring their evening movements, it's a lot harder to go unnoticed. I'm not sure where you could safely observe the apartment/tapas group without standing out.

You asked if she was killed in the apartment, wouldn't it be just as likely be a failed abduction as a failed theft? Well, to my mind no. If he was planning an abduction I would have expected more care to be taken, plus he had a predefined goal to get her out of there alive. That's not to say it couldn't have happened though, so still quite plausible.

Similary, I wouldn't say re-registering on the 4th is just as likely in either scenario. If it was for the purpose of an alibi anyway, knowing he was going to need thay alibi it would have made more sense to do it beforehand.

Regarding MM's bedding, it looked remarkably neat. Perhaps too neat, as if put that way. And I'm not suggesting any scenario where she bled. If he had to kill her in a spontaneous way, it would likely been via strangulation or suffocation. Would be almost impossible to detect that had happened in the bedroom without a body. Even with a half-decent investigation team doing the forensics.

Regarding material evidence and knowledge of the crime, my suspicion is that they are not taking about the same thing but could be wrong. The material evidence apparently relates to knowing MM died. Knowledge of the crime implies CB told someone something. If they were able to tie CB to knowing of MM's death then surely they would have enough to charge. To me, it reads more like they can prove MM is dead but not quite tie CB to that material evidence. They then also have seperate evidence that CB has told some unknown detail of the crime to someone.

I think it's good to debate though. Thank you for some constructive arguments. A number of people think simply saying "it doesnt make sense" is a valid counter-argument.
 
Indoors. A painted wall. And that's just decorative wainscoting - ie. very common wooden panelling used to divide/give walls interest.

It just looks like they're in a pub or club.
Thanks yes now I agree, it's wainscoting
 
@ Super and @MENDEL;
About changing car number plates:
NF had parked a car without numbers plates within the property of the two women.
After some time NF and Lina paid them a visit to place new German number plates that had arrived from Germany on that car and then they left (or drove away?)
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Sexta às 9 Episódio 26 - de 17 Jul 2020 - RTP Play - RTP

That's a great point! I only don't take it for granted because women tell about a car and I would expect them to tell about a campervan or something as that's too conspicuous and now famous to ignore.
 
I think it's good to debate though. Thank you for some constructive arguments. A number of people think simply saying "it doesnt make sense" is a valid counter-argument.

I suspect I might be one of those 'it doesn't make sense' people that you see as 'unconstructive' in their counter arguments. And that's fine.

I absolutely agree that it's good and crucial to debate. But for me, the debate has to take *historic, documented events into account that have to be explained and made sense of before they can be dismissed by me so I can travel, unencumbered, down another plausible path.

And a lot of *them still don't make sense to me to this day. So that's where I am, for clarity. It's not about being unconstructive or dismissive of your theories, it's about understanding why past ambiguities can be just abandoned now that there's a named prime suspect in place who apparently and allegedly is responsible for and at the root of the mystery of MM's disappearance.

And that's where I'll stay until Herr Wolters reveals all.
 
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That's a great point! I only don't take it for granted because women tell about a car and I would expect them to tell about a campervan or something as that's too conspicuous and now famous to ignore.
To CB and co, changing car number plates was just as routine as brushing their teeth.
The WF van was merely one of many vehicles to change registration plates.

And yes, the car at the womens home was most probably not the van otherwise it would have been mentioned. The car was one of many vehicles. Think of CB's fondness of BP's car scrapyard.
 
I suspect I might be one of those 'it doesn't make sense' people that you see as 'unconstructive' in their counter arguments. And that's fine.

I absolutely agree that it's good and crucial to debate. But for me, the debate has to take *historic, documented events into account that have to be explained and made sense of before they can be dismissed by me so I can travel, unencumbered, down another plausible path.

And a lot of *them still don't make sense to me to this day. So that's where I am, for clarity. It's not about being unconstructive or dismissive of your theories, it's about understanding why past ambiguities can be just abandoned now that there's a named prime suspect in place who apparently and allegedly is responsible for and at the root of the mystery of MM's disappearance.

And that's where I'll stay until Herr Wolters reveals all.
I wasn't speaking about anyone in particular, I don't keep note of who said what, I just recall a few people made comments along those lines or misrepresented/misunderstood what I was saying.

We're all working in the dark here to an extent, and I'm not asserting anything, just proposing possible options. If someone doesn't agree with a particular scenario proposed, I'd just prefer they'd substantiate why it's not plausible using the evidence we do know about or explain why another option is more plausible. We all have our different theories, but there's only one truth. We shouldn't dismiss other options without good reason just because we have a different idea about what happened.
 
That's not what I suggested. I don't believe he went in there with any intention of killing her, for perverted kicks or any other reason. I'm saying I can imagine a plausible scenario whereby he attempted to do something perverted while she was asleep and she woke up, causing him to panic and try to silence her. Death resulted. JMO.

You say his history is torture, abuse and filming but that's not necessarily the case when it comes to children. There's no record of him torturing a child or even filming one as far as we know (he did take photos though of his ex's daughter but he manipulated that opportunity through trust). All his perversions against children fit a profile of opportunist voyeurism which is what I'm suggesting may have happened to MM before things got very ugly.

I don't think ALL All his perversions against children fit a profile of opportunist voyeurism, yes indeed in a couple of cases, but we also knew for sure also he went further than watching we know he went onto physical abuse, Yes often an opportunist but I also think he was well able to plan, IMO I dont think for one min that he accidentally killed MM in 5b, I honestly think he was in and out ASAP, nor do I think he was walking around PDL at a time bars and restaurants were open with a dead child, if he was stopped and she was alive he could make up an excuse ie found her wandering etc, but I think what you are saying is indeed plausible, and I would love to know the truth, and maybe this indeed was.
 
Since there's not much happening at the moment, thought I'd write out some notes on a recent point of contention.

Planned abduction vs Opportunist crime.

There appears to be two main theories as to what happened to MM at the hands of CB.

A. MM was taken as part of a well planned abduction.

B. CB broke in with little advance planning and took MM (possibly killing her beforehand in 5A).

Since CB was announced as a suspect, I've kept an open mind but for the most part I've leaned towards theory A. Recently, I'm being more swayed to theory B. I think the reason most people believe this was a planned operation centres from how little evidence was left. MM vanished without a trace. For some, the idea that CB opportunistically broke in (perhaps to rob) and took MM without leaving a trace seems too implausible and would have required a huge amount of luck.

There are however, a number of things don't quite add up in the planned abduction theory either. Things, that do make more sense in the scenario of say CB possibly breaking in to burgle, and turning his attention to MM instead. Here's some of the reasons why I'm now leaning toward this being an opportunist effort and, also why I think MM might have died in 5A.

1. CB is no mastermind. If we look at his track record, his known crimes are mostly opportunistic. The DM rape did require some advance planning, but nothing to the level of what abducting MM would have. DM lived in an isolated villa on her own. He broke in dressed in head to toe gear to avoid leaving DNA, attacked her in privacy, then left her there.

2. How could an effective plan really be put together? With MM, he had to work out the movements of various members of the Tapas group who seemed to have quite random checking times. This in a holiday resort with other holiday makers also walking around. He had to get in, carry MM and exit without wakingher. Either out of the window (awkward) or through a door, which he then closed behind him while still carrying her. Then get her to a safe place without being seen. Now I'm not saying those things couldn't have happened but however good the plan, he would have always being relying on some level of luck throughout to not be noticed. Plus, how would he have managed to gather all this intel of the tapas group's routines? Hanging around on the corner each night watching everything would have looked a bit suspect. He might have had insider knowledge but again, how in depth could this be, an OC employee couldn't spend all their time watching the group either. And even if there was an inside source, that doesn't mean that it was with the intention of abduction, someone might have just given him the heads up of when to rob it.

3. Why not pick an easier target? The BKA believe CB killed MM "relatively quickly" which seemingly rules out any abduction to order of MM. They also think CB acted alone. So it begs the question why would he target MM specifically? If it was for his own perversions, there are far easier ways and places to abduct a child.

4. HCW doesn't appear to have ever referred to an abduction/kidnap, only a murder. This is odd, they announced from the start they were investigating CB on suspicion of murder. Why not abduction AND murder? One possibility is that MM was killed in the apartment by CB and then her body removed so technically, there was no abduction. This lends more to the theory he broke in to rob, saw MM and opportunistically tried to abuse her. She woke up, he tried to silence her and killed her. He then took her body to hide the evidence (possibly his DNA) and/or abuse her further.

5. CB re-registered his car the next day. We don't know why he did this but one theory is that it was to provide an alibi that he was in Germany. But if that's the case and it was a planned abduction, why didn't he do it before? It looks more like a reactive move, as though some unforeseen event has triggered it.

6. Police have made no mention of a murder scene. They have said they are looking for places MM's body might have been disposed of, but not where she was killed. It could be because they already know she was killed in the apartment. All the things HCW has said about her death are consistent with that theory, especially about her being killed quickly and not being with CB (or anyone else) for very long.

7. German LE floated the suggestion that the taking of MM might have been 'spontaneous'. Christian Hoppe alluded to this when CB was first announced as a suspect. Conversely, I've not really seen any comments from German LE that strongly suggest a planned operation over an opportunist one.

8. LE have confidence of death but not of abuse. Based on HCW's comments, many people think the material evidence convincing them of death is a photo or video. If it is, why are they not confident that she was abused? They only list this as a suspicion. If MM was taken alive as part of a planned abduction, surely CB would have filmed the abuse given his previous. It's therefore possible CB did not have this opportunity, and perhaps MM was killed during a bungled abuse attempt within 5A itself. The photo may have been post-mortem, possibly showing signs of how she died (strangulation marks etc), something else HCW claims they know.

9. Something only the abductor would know. This comment from HCW suggests CB must have told someone (possibly HB) something true about the crime that wasn't in the public domain. One possibility is that CB was in the apartment when GM or MO did their check and he mentioned something they did. I can't think of any more plausible publicly unknown info that CB might have mentioned that police would be able to verify. While it's possible this event could have happened in a planned abduction, it would seem less likely. If well planned, you'd think he'd strike when he had a bigger window. The scenario sounds more logical in an opportunist effort, where he had no idea of when someone was going to enter and where he might have remained in the apartment for a longer time than he would in a planned in-and-out snatch attempt.

10. CB's previous encounters with random children. We know he masurbated in front of a group of children in a playground. We have another story of him masturbating in front of a group of sleeping schoolgirls. He has a criminal record for twice indecently exposing himself to children in Germany. All these appear to be opportunistic acts. Rather than a well planed operation, IMO it seems more likely that what happened to MM was perhaps along the same lines, perhaps before something went wrong and he panicked. He might have gone in there with the intention of doing it or, turned his mind to it when he went to burgle. Either way, it is more in keeping with his MO that he did something like that rather than go in with the intention of kidnapping her.

All JMO, I expect many will disagree and I'm not looking to change people's minds. Just wanted to collate some ideas I've had recently.

Bravo DLk!
A really great theory and a good read thank you. It seems very plausible indeed.

If LE do have pictures of MM they still could be pornographic in nature, even though she could have been deceased.
I would imagine, from evidence we already have of his other crimes with children, that CB would have taken photo's, not just for his own perverted pleasure, but possibly for monetary gain.
I've also wondered whether he may have kept a lock of her hair - knowing that he collected 'trophies' too (swimming costumes).
He could well have left DNA behind 5a. I would assume by now LE have checked his against the 100+ hairs found.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P7/07_VOLUME_VI1a_Page_1827.jpg
 
That's a fair point. HCW commented they were looking at all similar crimes to see if CB might be a suspect for them.

Also fair points on the whole. Like I said, I'm still not convinced one way or the other, just putting forward some reason why the unplanned scenario makes some sense to me.

Just picking up on some of those points though.

You mentioned people spotted lurking, but these were all in the daytime. If he was monitoring their evening movements, it's a lot harder to go unnoticed. I'm not sure where you could safely observe the apartment/tapas group without standing out.

You asked if she was killed in the apartment, wouldn't it be just as likely be a failed abduction as a failed theft? Well, to my mind no. If he was planning an abduction I would have expected more care to be taken, plus he had a predefined goal to get her out of there alive. That's not to say it couldn't have happened though, so still quite plausible.

Similary, I wouldn't say re-registering on the 4th is just as likely in either scenario. If it was for the purpose of an alibi anyway, knowing he was going to need thay alibi it would have made more sense to do it beforehand.

Regarding MM's bedding, it looked remarkably neat. Perhaps too neat, as if put that way. And I'm not suggesting any scenario where she bled. If he had to kill her in a spontaneous way, it would likely been via strangulation or suffocation. Would be almost impossible to detect that had happened in the bedroom without a body. Even with a half-decent investigation team doing the forensics.

Regarding material evidence and knowledge of the crime, my suspicion is that they are not taking about the same thing but could be wrong. The material evidence apparently relates to knowing MM died. Knowledge of the crime implies CB told someone something. If they were able to tie CB to knowing of MM's death then surely they would have enough to charge. To me, it reads more like they can prove MM is dead but not quite tie CB to that material evidence. They then also have seperate evidence that CB has told some unknown detail of the crime to someone.

I think it's good to debate though. Thank you for some constructive arguments. A number of people think simply saying "it doesnt make sense" is a valid counter-argument.

I'd like to add that if it were a carefully planned abduction and if he had been watching the group and taking note of their movements, he would have known that the patio door would have been open each night.
Surely he would have taken that route in - it would have been the quickest route, then out by the front door. Less than a minute to scoop MM from her bed.
Instead he chose to go in through a window, his usual M.O when he burgled and much more inefficient.
Would a planned abduction take into consideration that the window just happened to be unlocked too?!
 
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