Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #21

[Zuleika]

Smithsman imo was described as a more mature person than how a 30 yr. old CB living in that area , mixing amongst a hippy crowd would probably look .

 

[Zuleika]

It’s difficult to imagine someone would be foolish enough to carry a child away when he could be observed by just about anyone and identified .

 

[SuperdadV8]

Are there known cases of abductions of carrying the concious or unconscious child through a town? Normally children use to be abducted quickly by using a vehicle to transport it to a safe location.

Otherwise that "safe" location must be right near in the area of the abduction IMO. A nearby flat maybe or a nearby parked vehicle.

Hard to think, that Smithman has been the abductor IMO.

 

[tedtink]

That would make me think the opposite. IMO a burglar would park close. Lots to carry coupled with fact it's a minor crime. No LE is really going to push the boat out interviewing people for a few cameras, cash and passports belonging to people that don't live there. Insured replaceable things you'd have to load into something to carry. Whereas a missing child or a child you've decided to abuse in their room is going to attract lots of attention.

I think a man carrying a child is less obvious than a man carrying a bag of stuff

If the perp had chosen 5A specifically then I assume he would have parked closer, but we don't know if it was specifically targeted, maybe it was just a random burglary, he could have attempted to open other windows that night, but just happened to go into 5A because he tried the window and discovered it was actually open.
Also I suppose it depends on what a burglar was going in for.
Expensive things needn't be large objects and could easily for into jacket and trouser pockets like jewelry, watches, small camera's, I guess it depends on the brand - we've read CB may have had a penchant for Rolex watches and IMO although it seems the MC's were comfortably off they don't seem to be folk who would go for these high end items. Maybe there just wasn't anything of 'high' monetary value for the perp to take? Then he became distracted by MM or was disturbed by her.

JMO

 

[redplanet]

It’s difficult to imagine someone would be foolish enough to carry a child away when he could be observed by just about anyone and identified .

I agree it would be foolish IMO for CB to carry a child unconcealed.
BTW in this audio interview (at 25:51 until 27:23) HCW is asked directly about the Smith sighting and whether it is relevant to investigation of CB. His reply is IMO a sort of "no comment"?
'Madeleine is Dead' - They've Taken Her - Omny.fm

 

[redplanet]

If the perp had chosen 5A specifically then I assume he would have parked closer, but we don't know if it was specifically targeted, maybe it was just a random burglary, he could have attempted to open other windows that night, but just happened to go into 5A because he tried the window and discovered it was actually open.
Also I suppose it depends on what a burglar was going in for.
Expensive things needn't be large objects and could easily for into jacket and trouser pockets like jewelry, watches, small camera's, I guess it depends on the brand - we've read CB may have had a penchant for Rolex watches and IMO although it seems the MC's were comfortably off they don't seem to be folk who would go for these high end items. Maybe there just wasn't anything of 'high' monetary value for the perp to take? Then he became distracted by MM or was disturbed by her.

JMO

If he has a vehicle but it is parked several blocks away then he walks around several streets until he finds a property that is easy to enter, I think IMO he would use a rucksack. Because although cash cards cameras phones all may fit in pockets, he will also want valuable laptop computers and therefore he needs a bag, and because some entries require a little climbing a rucksack is the bag to use.

 

[tedtink]

If he has a vehicle but it is parked several blocks away then he walks around several streets until he finds a property that is easy to enter, I think IMO he would use a rucksack. Because although cash cards cameras phones all may fit in pockets, he will also want valuable laptop computers and therefore he needs a bag, and because some entries require a little climbing a rucksack is the bag to use.

If the Smithman sighting was CB and MM, and I'm still open minded about that, then he could have worn an empty rucksack, over his shoulders and on his back, concealed by his jacket and nobody would have been none the wiser.

JMO

 

[tedtink]

Are there known cases of abductions of carrying the concious or unconscious child through a town? Normally children use to be abducted quickly by using a vehicle to transport it to a safe location.

Otherwise that "safe" location must be right near in the area of the abduction IMO. A nearby flat maybe or a nearby parked vehicle.

Hard to think, that Smithman has been the abductor IMO.

But Smithman may fit the 'intention of burglary and removal of MM' theory.

 

[redplanet]

But Smithman may fit the 'intention of burglary and removal of MM' theory.

IMO if he has a rucksack large enough for loot up to the size of laptops but then unexpectedly he needs to carry something much larger (for a mundane example consider a plasma screen stolen by a burglar in a few weeks earlier from an apartment in same building), maybe he even leaves, moves vehicle closer and maybe gets a larger bag from the vehicle, then returns???

 

[redplanet]

I think the PJ arrived about 1am but don't know what time they were there until??

 

[peanutJelly]

If the perp had chosen 5A specifically then I assume he would have parked closer, but we don't know if it was specifically targeted, maybe it was just a random burglary, he could have attempted to open other windows that night, but just happened to go into 5A because he tried the window and discovered it was actually open.
Also I suppose it depends on what a burglar was going in for.
Expensive things needn't be large objects and could easily for into jacket and trouser pockets like jewelry, watches, small camera's, I guess it depends on the brand - we've read CB may have had a penchant for Rolex watches and IMO although it seems the MC's were comfortably off they don't seem to be folk who would go for these high end items. Maybe there just wasn't anything of 'high' monetary value for the perp to take? Then he became distracted by MM or was disturbed by her.

JMO

I’m still wondering if CB had been in 5A on a previous evening and maybe even carried out some form of abuse. PF was clear about MM calling for daddy, without wanting to be sexist it’s unusual for a child of her age not to call for mummy, so had a man been in the apartment that night ?

plus the unexplained stain on MM pj top

 

[tedtink]

I’m still wondering if CB had been in 5A on a previous evening and maybe even carried out some form of abuse. PF was clear about MM calling for daddy, without wanting to be sexist it’s unusual for a child of her age not to call for mummy, so had a man been in the apartment that night ?

plus the unexplained stain on MM pj top

Possible, but PF said she had heard the crying on 1st May I believe.

P.J. POLICE FILES: MRS PAMELA FENN STATEMENT

 

[SuperdadV8]

But Smithman may fit the 'intention of burglary and removal of MM' theory.

Yes, but like Dlk79 posted before applicable, HCW accuses CB of murdering and possibly abusing before. Not abducting.

So everything stays possible IMO.

 

[Chiatos]

Yes, but like Dlk79 posted before applicable, HCW accuses CB of murdering and possibly abusing before. Not abducting.

So everything stays possible IMO.

Wait a minute. In what way has HCW not accused CB of abducting MM?
Based on his initial press conference?
What about the other interviews he has given?
And what has been said (written) by BKA? (Can't find it anymore.)
Entfuhrt / verschleppt?

 

[SuperdadV8]

Wait a minute. In what way has HCW not accused CB of abducting MM?
Based on his initial press conference?
What about the other interviews he has given?
And what has been said (written) by BKA? (Can't find it anymore.)
Entfuhrt / verschleppt?

HCW never pointed out to an abduction. Of course, i didn't went through every single interview in the last 5 months.

The BKA appeal is just referring to a murder case, pointing out the time of the crime between 09:10 - 10:00 pm....

Lots of room for interpretation IMO. Also the statement that prosecuters are just investigating CB, when asked for accomplices. That doesn't mean, that there aren't some. Some can decease, so you can't investigate them anymore....

 

[redplanet]

Possible, but PF said she had heard the crying on 1st May I believe.

P.J. POLICE FILES: MRS PAMELA FENN STATEMENT

That does not rule out crying on evening 2nd also. The witness for the latter was MM herself, therefore I think it certainly happened IMO. Therefore it is possible there was an intruder (or an intrusion attempt) during the lengthy meal on Wed evening IMO.

 

[tedtink]

That does not rule out crying on evening 2nd also. The witness for the latter was MM herself, therefore I think it certainly happened IMO. Therefore it is possible there was an intruder (or an intrusion attempt) during the lengthy meal on Wed evening IMO.

I wasn't trying to rule it out.
I agree that anything was possible - unlikely IMO, that perp entered twice, but possible.
It's even possible that MM was referring to 1st May crying, when she spoke to KM and not the night before on 2nd- kids get confused.
She may have been woken by perp on 1st and 2nd - but there's no evidence of that, forensic or otherwise.
JMO

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Smithsman imo was described as a more mature person than how a 30 yr. old CB living in that area , mixing amongst a hippy crowd would probably look .

In relation to age, it depends on which of the Smith family statements you mean, across the three the range in 30-40. Although CB moved in hippy circles, he seemed to try to distance himself from the culture ... his regular way of dressing was slacks, shirt and jacket - if CB was Smithman IMO this could have influenced the age description.

IMO, the description by AS is the most important, she was pregnant at the time which means she was completely sober and perhaps more aware of a small child being carried through the streets at night.

I posted this before in response to a post by @tedtink:

I've dismissed the Smith sighting in the past but it would certainly support your @Denis R Tandibpost and Dlk's theory and after re-reading the witness statement some of the sentences take on a very different meaning.

"he was Caucasian, around 175 to 180m in height. He appeared to be about 35/40 years old. He had an average build, a bit on the thin side. His hair was short, in a basic male cut, brown in colour.

The child has blonde medium-hued hair, without being very light. Her skin was very white, typical of a Brit. He did not notice her eyes as she was asleep and her eyelids were closed

He adds that he did not hold the child in a comfortable position, suggesting [the carrying] not being habitual

Questioned, says that the individual did not speak nor did the child as she was in a deep sleep.

P.J. POLICE FILES: MARTIN SMITH & FAMILY STATEMENTS

Click to expand...

I agree and just a couple of points to add. The Smith family didn’t think the man was a tourist. In the revised statement from MS in September 2007 he added that the man was wearing a blazer. These things, to me indicate it could have been CB.

The photo fits of the man suggest an abnormal jaw line. Again a potential match for CB.

Finally, in the Malaga footage, one month before MM’s abduction, CB has brown hair.

Put these things together with dark environment and relatively quick sighting and I think it’s a fairly strong possibility.

 

[redplanet]

I wasn't trying to rule it out.
I agree that anything was possible - unlikely IMO, that perp entered twice, but possible.
It's even possible that MM was referring to 1st May crying, when she spoke to KM and not the night before on 2nd- kids get confused.
She may have been woken by perp on 1st and 2nd - but there's no evidence of that, forensic or otherwise.
JMO

If there was an intruder during wednesday evening dinner then it is hypothetically possible that there may have been forensic evidence on the pj top.

 

[redplanet]

In relation to age, it depends on which of the Smith family statements you mean, across the three the range in 30-40. Although CB moved in hippy circles, he seemed to try to distance himself from the culture ... his regular way of dressing was slacks, shirt and jacket - if CB was Smithman IMO this could have influenced the age description.

IMO, the description by AS is the most important, she was pregnant at the time which means she was completely sober and perhaps more aware of a small child being carried through the streets at night.

I posted this before in response to a post by @tedtink:

I've dismissed the Smith sighting in the past but it would certainly support your @Denis R Tandibpost and Dlk's theory and after re-reading the witness statement some of the sentences take on a very different meaning.

"he was Caucasian, around 175 to 180m in height. He appeared to be about 35/40 years old. He had an average build, a bit on the thin side. His hair was short, in a basic male cut, brown in colour.

The child has blonde medium-hued hair, without being very light. Her skin was very white, typical of a Brit. He did not notice her eyes as she was asleep and her eyelids were closed

He adds that he did not hold the child in a comfortable position, suggesting [the carrying] not being habitual

Questioned, says that the individual did not speak nor did the child as she was in a deep sleep.

P.J. POLICE FILES: MARTIN SMITH & FAMILY STATEMENTS

Click to expand...

I agree and just a couple of points to add. The Smith family didn’t think the man was a tourist. In the revised statement from MS in September 2007 he added that the man was wearing a blazer. These things, to me indicate it could have been CB.

The photo fits of the man suggest an abnormal jaw line. Again a potential match for CB.

Finally, in the Malaga footage, one month before MM’s abduction, CB has brown hair.

Put these things together with dark environment and relatively quick sighting and I think it’s a fairly strong possibility.

Just a minor detail, AS age 12 (daughter of M+M) gave the statement you refer to, but it was SS (daughterinlaw of M+M) who was pregnant. And it was TS age 13 (grandson of M+M) who remembered the black jacket.