Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #21

[SuperdadV8]

Agreed its no brexit thing

I wondered about tapas as well

But where does that take us?

Can't tell that by now but one thing seems still odd to me.

You are a group of 9. Maybe for the first time, the MC's are part of it. You are older than than 20, so even if you are keen into group vacation, you normally have interest in privacy.

Even if you are of a friendly or boozy mood, you offer to look for unrelated children and the parents agree about that?

Possible of course, but more likely because of the consumption of wine IMO. So at the end, at least the known timeline should be discussable.

 

[redplanet]

IMO hat would imply, that the cadaver smell had been brought into 5A maybe, without connection to MM....

Or maybe this is an exit route? From balcony, down the steps, hide temporarily in that flowerbed, wait until all clear, then climb over the wall to the alleyeway.

 

[SuperdadV8]

Or maybe this is an exit route? From balcony, down the steps, hide temporarily in that flowerbed, wait until all clear, then climb over the wall to the alleyeway.

Possible, of course!

 

[SuperdadV8]

What connection has been between the Oldfields and the McCanns?

Somebody knows?

 

[mrjitty]

Can't tell that by now but one thing seems still odd to me.

You are a group of 9. Maybe for the first time, the MC's are part of it. You are older than than 20, so even if you are keen into group vacation, you normally have interest in privacy.

Even if you are of a friendly or boozy mood, you offer to look for unrelated children and the parents agree about that?

Possible of course, but more likely because of the consumption of wine IMO. So at the end, at least the known timeline should be discussable.

One other point.

If JT has recanted re Tannerman (crimewatch) then HCW knows this ... would be fascinating to know how the Met see the timeline and what they shared with HCW

 

[Dlk79]

There is the added difficulty that in some articles the journalists themselves may be confusing one witness with another.

That can happen, but I'd struggle to see how in this instance. The reporter for the Sun exclusive surely knows which witness they approached that says it was CB she saw. And how they describe her sounds like they've used the Daily Mail article (the most comprehensive article in the press of JJ's account) as their reference point. We now how the Press like to copy articles and quotes from one another. And we know the Mail's version is accurate since JJ recounts it herself in the Netflix documentary.

So the Sun article says -

The woman reported the sighting within hours of three-year-old Madeleine’s disappearance on May 3, 2007, and has always been viewed as a credible witness.
Madeleine witness says Christian B IS man she saw near apartment

The Mail articles from 2007 says -

Although the two sisters contacted Portuguese police within hours of Madeleine's disappearance, their evidence was ignored for six months...

...A spokesman for the McCanns said: "We remain extremely grateful to Annie and Jayne for making the efforts they have to get their information to us.

"They have been trying since day one and have only wanted to help Kate and Gerry find Madeleine. "They are utterly credible witnesses and we are very grateful to them"
British witnesses: 'We saw two blond men on balcony next to Madeleine apartment' | Daily Mail Online

There's a limited number of people who the Sun could be talking about and the way they use the identical statements that are used in the Mail to describe JJ seem to be more than coincidence to me. I'm almost sure now that they are referring to the JJ sighting.

 

[redplanet]

IMO the BKA would carefully examine the work by the UK EVRD Eddie, in an intruder-did-it context. And note that the handler MG never mentions any requirement for hours to elapse.

 

[mrjitty]

What connection has been between the Oldfields and the McCanns?

Somebody knows?

All I remember is the paynes knew everyone and brought the group together and JT is the friend of the MCs

 

[SuperdadV8]

All I remember is the paynes knew everyone and brought the group together and JT is the friend of the MCs

So no direct connection between the MC's, the Tanners and the Oldfields?

But Mr. Oldfield decides to do the child watch and the MC's agree?

Possible, but it still seems odd to me. Although i would rather classify the circumstances in the way, as there had been no checks. Or not every 30 minutes maybe. And that is a big issue to the investigation. Maybe none of the tapas group checked their kids.

So the time window for an incident increases for maybe hours....

 

[redplanet]

That can happen, but I'd struggle to see how in this instance. The reporter for the Sun exclusive surely knows which witness they approached that says it was CB she saw. And how they describe her sounds like they've used the Daily Mail article (the most comprehensive article in the press of JJ's account) as their reference point. We now how the Press like to copy articles and quotes from one another. And we know the Mail's version is accurate since JJ recounts it herself in the Netflix documentary.

So the Sun article says -

The woman reported the sighting within hours of three-year-old Madeleine’s disappearance on May 3, 2007, and has always been viewed as a credible witness.
Madeleine witness says Christian B IS man she saw near apartment

The Mail articles from 2007 says -

Although the two sisters contacted Portuguese police within hours of Madeleine's disappearance, their evidence was ignored for six months...

...A spokesman for the McCanns said: "We remain extremely grateful to Annie and Jayne for making the efforts they have to get their information to us.

"They have been trying since day one and have only wanted to help Kate and Gerry find Madeleine. "They are utterly credible witnesses and we are very grateful to them"
British witnesses: 'We saw two blond men on balcony next to Madeleine apartment' | Daily Mail Online

There's a limited number of people who the Sun could be talking about and the way they use the identical statements that are used in the Mail to describe JJ seem to be more than coincidence to me. I'm almost sure now that they are referring to the JJ sighting.

Interesting points, and I agree the "definitely him" witness could be JJ+AW. However I also keep female JW on the list IMO.
JJ+AW saw the 2 men on balcony of 5C IMO. What were they doing? If hypothetically it was anything nefarious, I suggest their main purpose may have been to test whether the 5C sliding door was unlocked. ???

 

[Newthoughts]

Normally, I wouldn't recall anything at all unless it impacted me directly in some way or another.

You just don't.

You do if a) you noticed it initially because it seemed somehow odd and b) soon after it becomes linked to a significant event like the abduction of a child near your aunt's house.

I can't remember what I've done last week but I do remember exactly what I was doing when I heard princess Di had died.

 

[misty48]

That can happen, but I'd struggle to see how in this instance. The reporter for the Sun exclusive surely knows which witness they approached that says it was CB she saw. And how they describe her sounds like they've used the Daily Mail article (the most comprehensive article in the press of JJ's account) as their reference point. We now how the Press like to copy articles and quotes from one another. And we know the Mail's version is accurate since JJ recounts it herself in the Netflix documentary.

So the Sun article says -

The woman reported the sighting within hours of three-year-old Madeleine’s disappearance on May 3, 2007, and has always been viewed as a credible witness.
Madeleine witness says Christian B IS man she saw near apartment

The Mail articles from 2007 says -

Although the two sisters contacted Portuguese police within hours of Madeleine's disappearance, their evidence was ignored for six months...

...A spokesman for the McCanns said: "We remain extremely grateful to Annie and Jayne for making the efforts they have to get their information to us.

"They have been trying since day one and have only wanted to help Kate and Gerry find Madeleine. "They are utterly credible witnesses and we are very grateful to them"
British witnesses: 'We saw two blond men on balcony next to Madeleine apartment' | Daily Mail Online

There's a limited number of people who the Sun could be talking about and the way they use the identical statements that are used in the Mail to describe JJ seem to be more than coincidence to me. I'm almost sure now that they are referring to the JJ sighting.

I'm pretty sure the reliable witness is the young mother (+ her child) who saw the same man on 2 separate occasions during the week. The actor who portrayed this suspect in "Madeleine Was Here" 2009 Documentary bore more than a passing resemblance to CB imo.
'Madeleine Was Here' - 'Scarface' / 3 Witnesses*




One of the suspects, shown in a reconstruction scene from 'Madeleine Was Here'



The McCanns' new detectives, ex-police officers Dave Edgar and Arthur Cowley, reveal that they have discovered 3 witnesses - 'hidden' in the PJ files - who saw a man acting suspiciously outside the McCanns' apartment.

A sketch of one of the suspects is splashed across the covers of the UK press and immediately dubbed a variety of names, from 'Scarface' to 'Pimpleman' to 'Mr Spotty".


*snipped*
A young mum, on holiday in the resort, twice saw a pock-marked man acting suspiciously. The first time was around 8am on April 29 2007, the second time was on May 2 2007.

She said: "I was walking along the road with my daughter. I grabbed her hand and pulled her towards me because for some reason the man unnerved me.

"He was standing on the opposite side of the road to the apartment. I would describe him as very ugly, pitted skin with a large nose."

Verdict: It has not been possible to locate this witness statement in the PJ files which were issued to journalists. It may be contained in files that the McCanns' lawyers have gained access to, which are still under judicial secrecy, or possibly from information they have received direct from the public or through Método 3.

Update: The Sun's article of 11 May 2009, 'Scarface' witness, 'police ignored me', states that this witness reported the sighting to her local police in Wiltshire, two years ago, who then forwarded it to the McCanns' local force in Leicestershire; from whom she heard nothing. Was it ever forwarded to the PJ? If not, in which files did the McCanns' new detectives find it 'hidden'?

 

[Newthoughts]

I tend to agree with you. The number of allegedly 'suspicious looking' (pock-marked, swarthy, big nosed, big eyed, big eared, short-haired, wild-haired) people allegedly prowling about with 'intent' in such a small area seems unlikely.

I do wonder how much the 'frisson' of MM's disappearance informed and impacted upon people's memories.

I 100% agree

I've wondered how much of it had to do with people from the burbs adjusting to a higher density apartment block?

I live in high density in a big city and there are routinely odd looking people around.

Some are vagrants. But many are visitors, tradesmen or residents

There is no way I can know all of the several hundred people who live in the dozens of apartments close to me.

Normally I would forget strangers quickly unless you ask me within 24-48 hours

But in this particular instance there was actually a suspicious character in the area because somebody went in and took a child.

Which means that at least some of those sightings are most likely true. And I think CT is a credible witness because she says she doesn't know when she doesn't and gives reasons for recalling things that she does

If she saw somebody practising closing a gate quietly and strangely enough for her to notice that isn't normal. And her description does not preclude CB. It could be him

 

[Dlk79]

I'm pretty sure the reliable witness is the young mother (+ her child) who saw the same man on 2 separate occasions during the week. The actor who portrayed this suspect in "Madeleine Was Here" 2009 Documentary bore more than a passing resemblance to CB imo.
'Madeleine Was Here' - 'Scarface' / 3 Witnesses*




One of the suspects, shown in a reconstruction scene from 'Madeleine Was Here'



The McCanns' new detectives, ex-police officers Dave Edgar and Arthur Cowley, reveal that they have discovered 3 witnesses - 'hidden' in the PJ files - who saw a man acting suspiciously outside the McCanns' apartment.

A sketch of one of the suspects is splashed across the covers of the UK press and immediately dubbed a variety of names, from 'Scarface' to 'Pimpleman' to 'Mr Spotty".


*snipped*
A young mum, on holiday in the resort, twice saw a pock-marked man acting suspiciously. The first time was around 8am on April 29 2007, the second time was on May 2 2007.

She said: "I was walking along the road with my daughter. I grabbed her hand and pulled her towards me because for some reason the man unnerved me.

"He was standing on the opposite side of the road to the apartment. I would describe him as very ugly, pitted skin with a large nose."

Verdict: It has not been possible to locate this witness statement in the PJ files which were issued to journalists. It may be contained in files that the McCanns' lawyers have gained access to, which are still under judicial secrecy, or possibly from information they have received direct from the public or through Método 3.

Update: The Sun's article of 11 May 2009, 'Scarface' witness, 'police ignored me', states that this witness reported the sighting to her local police in Wiltshire, two years ago, who then forwarded it to the McCanns' local force in Leicestershire; from whom she heard nothing. Was it ever forwarded to the PJ? If not, in which files did the McCanns' new detectives find it 'hidden'?

It's possible, certainly. But what makes me doubt it is the Sun's assertion that their witness reported the sighting to police "within hours". This young mother (believed to be JW) clearly didn't do that.

"this witness reported the sighting to her local police in Wiltshire, two years ago, who then forwarded it to the McCanns' local force in Leicestershire"

She was already back in the UK before she reported any sighting.

 

[axelcruze]

Some of those apt.are privately owned ,it could have been people looking at their property , people viewing it etc. Rather than ominous I would call it coincidence .

I don't think Sherlock would see it this way. It's not coincidence that someone possibly a suspect was checking the metal gate imo, it would be a big factor for a well prepped burglar

 

[Zuleika]

What connection has been between the Oldfields and the McCanns?

Somebody knows?

Gerry and Matthew worked together at Leicester General hospital in 2002 .

 

[redplanet]

I'm pretty sure the reliable witness is the young mother (+ her child) who saw the same man on 2 separate occasions during the week. The actor who portrayed this suspect in "Madeleine Was Here" 2009 Documentary bore more than a passing resemblance to CB imo.
'Madeleine Was Here' - 'Scarface' / 3 Witnesses*




One of the suspects, shown in a reconstruction scene from 'Madeleine Was Here'



The McCanns' new detectives, ex-police officers Dave Edgar and Arthur Cowley, reveal that they have discovered 3 witnesses - 'hidden' in the PJ files - who saw a man acting suspiciously outside the McCanns' apartment.

A sketch of one of the suspects is splashed across the covers of the UK press and immediately dubbed a variety of names, from 'Scarface' to 'Pimpleman' to 'Mr Spotty".


*snipped*
A young mum, on holiday in the resort, twice saw a pock-marked man acting suspiciously. The first time was around 8am on April 29 2007, the second time was on May 2 2007.

She said: "I was walking along the road with my daughter. I grabbed her hand and pulled her towards me because for some reason the man unnerved me.

"He was standing on the opposite side of the road to the apartment. I would describe him as very ugly, pitted skin with a large nose."

Verdict: It has not been possible to locate this witness statement in the PJ files which were issued to journalists. It may be contained in files that the McCanns' lawyers have gained access to, which are still under judicial secrecy, or possibly from information they have received direct from the public or through Método 3.

Update: The Sun's article of 11 May 2009, 'Scarface' witness, 'police ignored me', states that this witness reported the sighting to her local police in Wiltshire, two years ago, who then forwarded it to the McCanns' local force in Leicestershire; from whom she heard nothing. Was it ever forwarded to the PJ? If not, in which files did the McCanns' new detectives find it 'hidden'?

Here are 2 sketches of the man seen by UK mum JW who is referred to as "witness one":
'Madeleine Was Here' - 'Scarface' / 3 Witnesses*
And here are 2 photos taken in a Hanover bar (wearing a jacket and a grey tshirt):
Police hunt Madeleine McCann suspect's 'underage Kosovan' ex who lived with him in Praia da Luz | | Express Digest
IMO the sketch from about 45deg, and the photo from about 45deg, are similar, specifically the angular features of the face. Does anyone else see this?

 

[redplanet]

I'm pretty sure the reliable witness is the young mother (+ her child) who saw the same man on 2 separate occasions during the week. The actor who portrayed this suspect in "Madeleine Was Here" 2009 Documentary bore more than a passing resemblance to CB imo.
'Madeleine Was Here' - 'Scarface' / 3 Witnesses*




One of the suspects, shown in a reconstruction scene from 'Madeleine Was Here'



The McCanns' new detectives, ex-police officers Dave Edgar and Arthur Cowley, reveal that they have discovered 3 witnesses - 'hidden' in the PJ files - who saw a man acting suspiciously outside the McCanns' apartment.

A sketch of one of the suspects is splashed across the covers of the UK press and immediately dubbed a variety of names, from 'Scarface' to 'Pimpleman' to 'Mr Spotty".


*snipped*
A young mum, on holiday in the resort, twice saw a pock-marked man acting suspiciously. The first time was around 8am on April 29 2007, the second time was on May 2 2007.

She said: "I was walking along the road with my daughter. I grabbed her hand and pulled her towards me because for some reason the man unnerved me.

"He was standing on the opposite side of the road to the apartment. I would describe him as very ugly, pitted skin with a large nose."

Verdict: It has not been possible to locate this witness statement in the PJ files which were issued to journalists. It may be contained in files that the McCanns' lawyers have gained access to, which are still under judicial secrecy, or possibly from information they have received direct from the public or through Método 3.

Update: The Sun's article of 11 May 2009, 'Scarface' witness, 'police ignored me', states that this witness reported the sighting to her local police in Wiltshire, two years ago, who then forwarded it to the McCanns' local force in Leicestershire; from whom she heard nothing. Was it ever forwarded to the PJ? If not, in which files did the McCanns' new detectives find it 'hidden'?

IMO the parents' detectives learned about JW's sightings directly from JW herself.

 

[Victoria Chambers]

Re the Swansea 'wrong number' call that KM received on the morning of May03. It was discovered that on the same afternoon, somebody, (not connected to the McC or the Tapas group) at the OC called the same Swansea number. On another forum, it is said to be JJ who made the call. Can anybody verify this plz X

 

[snowpea666]

The Payne’s were best friends . Oldfield worked with GM . They all met up for occasions , children’s birthdays ,wedding .
Tanner and partner not met McCanns previously but she had been to Portugal four times .

Who was the lady Dr that went on holiday with them to the villa the year before ? she seemed to have plenty to say, I never knew what to make of it.