Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #36

[frank-cole]

and then it was "Provisionally passed the case over to the region of Magdeburg on 4/22/23.

So that is where we stand. No news from Magdeburg - or did I miss that?
TIA!

No news. I think they’re still working through the appeals process. It’s just delaying the inevitable IMO.

 

[JB1510]

Thanks! Sometimes I have to skip a few pages when I get behind in reading here! Just wanted to make sure I haven't missed it.

In case you missed it ? The previous page has an interview with HB who as you know is one of the cases in he has been charged with . She said she expects to receive a court date in the next few weeks for her trial that she thinks will begin in the Autumn.

 

[RichardKimble]

In case you missed it ? The previous page has an interview with HB who as you know is one of the cases in he has been charged with . She said she expects to receive a court date in the next few weeks for her trial that she thinks will begin in the Autumn.

Although reference was made to the jurisdiction issue, it pointedly never mentioned where the trial ,if held would be.

 

[Niner]

In case you missed it ? The previous page has an interview with HB who as you know is one of the cases in he has been charged with . She said she expects to receive a court date in the next few weeks for her trial that she thinks will begin in the Autumn.

Although reference was made to the jurisdiction issue, it pointedly never mentioned where the trial ,if held would be.

Yes I did see the interview article with HB. But as Richard Kimble said - never mentioned any dates - so am waiting for those.

And by the way Mr. Kimble - LOVED your show - always rooted for you to get away!! LOL!

 

[frank-cole]

Could be it's just legalise speak confirming the charges have been read and agreed the charges were laid in October according to which Niner posted on page one of this thread with the article you posting dates November.

IMO it doesn’t matter when they made that comment, I finding it telling that it was made though.

 

[RichardKimble]

And by the way Mr. Kimble - LOVED your show - always rooted for you to get away!! LOL!

wondered when someone would pick upon it.

 

[Niner]

wondered when someone would pick upon it.

I picked up on right away - but never said anything. Guess no one reading here knows "who" you are. I think this is a European group posting - if I am not mistaken!

 

[SuperdadV8]

“The 2nd Criminal Chamber has affirmed a strong suspicion for the five accused offences” - I believe this is the second affirmation from the court that IMO verifies the strength of the cases. IMO it seems unusual that a court would note that they too have “strong suspicion” CB comitted all 5 crimes, before a trial. Perhaps that also means the evidence in the 2 additional rape cases is more incriminating than we hypothesise. The surprising comments seem like another differential between the German system & the UK one. IMO it also invalidates the claim that HCW is breaking any rules by being so open about CB’s guilt and IMO it adds credence to the argument that jurisdictional changes don’t reflect the validity of the evidence, nor will a jurisdictional move alleviate any suspicion. I think that’s a good sign of the legal proceedings to come. JMO

The file number from the prosecution seems to be interesting.

".....52790/18"

So the prosecutors opened the investigation file against CB already in 2018. So far so good. HCW told already in 2020, to have reached the conclusion of CB being guilty for MM's death "within the last two years".

Now they charge CB using the 2018 number for 5 crimes, but excluded the MM allegations. It indicates, they investigated a whole complex, they got aware of in 2018 and classified all the possible crimes into one single complex.

That again indicates, that none of the crimes CB has been charged of with, came up to light AFTER the 2020 public inquiry, because if it had, it would carry a ..../20, ..../21 or /...22 file number.

So if i put one and one together, all these crimes excluding MM had been investigated before 2020 already und must be linked to each other in some way, again, before 2020.

According to the fact, that the wording of three rape charges included quotes like "....and recorded the deed on a videocamera." and "....yet unknown victim.", i'm convinced that there is a lot of footage still existing. Footage that probably links CB to little MM as well.

ETA:

Now it makes sense. The MM case should have another file number, with a .../19, .../20 on it. They got aware of CB related MM AFTER they started to investigate the 5 crimes, CB has been charged of.

In this relation it is interesting as well, that CB has been investigated in the Inga case very intensively in 2019 (again?), although they found his vile material at Neuwegersleben in 2016 already.

So it's pretty likely, the allegations against CB according to MM could be the result of intel, that came up to light around 2019/2020.

OR ....they had all the info about MM from 2018 as well, but just separated the murder case from the charged sex crimes. That again would indicate, that there is footage of Maddie in CB's "collection".

 

[frank-cole]

The file number from the prosecution seems to be interesting.

".....52790/18"

So the prosecutors opened the investigation file against CB already in 2018. So far so good. HCW told already in 2020, to have reached the conclusion of CB being guilty for MM's death "within the last two years".

Now they charge CB using the 2018 number for 5 crimes, but excluded the MM allegations. It indicates, they investigated a whole complex, they got aware of in 2018 and classified all the possible crimes into one single complex.

That again indicates, that none of the crimes CB has been charged of with, came up to light AFTER the 2020 public inquiry, because if it had, it would carry a ..../20, ..../21 or /...22 file number.

So if i put one and one together, all these crimes excluding MM had been investigated before 2020 already und must be linked to each other in some way, again, before 2020.

According to the fact, that the wording of three rape charges included quotes like "....and recorded the deed on a videocamera." and "....yet unknown victim.", i'm convinced that there is a lot of footage still existing. Footage that probably links CB to little MM as well.

ETA:

Now it makes sense. The MM case should have another file number, with a .../19, .../20 on it. They got aware of CB related MM AFTER they started to investigate the 5 crimes, CB has been charged of.

In this relation it is interesting as well, that CB has been investigated in the Inga case very intensively in 2019 (again?), although they found his vile material at Neuwegersleben in 2016 already.

So it's pretty likely, the allegations against CB according to MM could be the result of intel, that came up to light around 2019/2020.

OR ....they had all the info about MM from 2018 as well, but just separated the murder case from the charged sex crimes. That again would indicate, that there is footage of Maddie in CB's "collection".

Great point.

IMO the concrete evidence came during the 2018 apartment search

 

[RichardKimble]

I picked up on right away - but never said anything. Guess no one reading here knows "who" you are. I think this is a European group posting - if I am not mistaken!

I'm a brit, could be they're too young to remember , it was on tv here back more yrs than I care to remember.

 

[SuperdadV8]

Great point.

IMO the concrete evidence came during the 2018 apartment search

Correct! So probably no MM within the Neuwegersleben stash, but probably in a different stash.

So he kept his stashes at different locations. More than just one backup copy. Probably a safety measure, after HB, MS and CP "cleaned up" his home in 2006.

So yes, they are indeed very likely digging up the spots he preferred for data carriers. But why didn't they check out the Braunschweig allotment that thoroughly as well, as Hannover and Arade?

Interesting!

 

[RichardKimble]

Great point.

IMO the concrete evidence came during the 2018 apartment search

The third document shows 2008, so did he keep that disc from then? Making it from images from 2007? Let's not forget Wolters said if we had a video or photo of CB and Madeleine together they wouldn't have needed to appeal, so from that and where it's at now the two cannot be placed together imo.

 

[Niner]

I'm a brit, could be they're too young to remember , it was on tv here back more yrs than I care to remember.

Oh they must be - as it ran from 1963 to 1967 in the U.S.! Great series. and I am sure it had a lot of reruns in later years.

 

[frank-cole]

The third document shows 2008, so did he keep that disc from then? Making it from images from 2007? Let's not forget Wolters said if we had a video or photo of CB and Madeleine together they wouldn't have needed to appeal, so from that and where it's at now the two cannot be placed together imo.

I agree. He was very specific about the digital evidence they didn’t have. Which was that they didn’t have a photo or video with suspect and victim on frame. I think that’s the concrete evidence & I think this may well be the search they recovered them from. It seems he took & had a lot of pictures and videos. Could be on the USB’s or on CD-Roms.

To your point, for the majority IMO, photos or videos of a deceased victim found amongst the belongings of CB would certainly be enough to convince them that CB is responsible, especially given all of the other open source information indicating that way. But I don’t know whether it would be enough in a German court room during a non-forensic murder trial. I’m guessing the prosecutors didn’t think it would be, hence the appeal. Jmo

 

[SuperdadV8]

Great point.

IMO the concrete evidence came during the 2018 apartment search

Looks like, as if they found the footage of at least 2 rapes at the 2018 apartment search. Probably they tried to find the victims in the following years, especially after the public inquiry. And, of course, they used the public interest about the MM case as an anchor for the victims to come out.

That doesn't mean, the MM allegations aren't serious enough!!! But if they have got the footage of the rapes, especially of the Hazel B. rape and if he gets sentenced for these three rapes, after Diana M. he wil end in safety confinement anyway.

So, no need to hurry according to MM, although i'm very sorry for all the grief her parents have to go through, almost for decades.

 

[frank-cole]

Looks like, as if they found the footage of at least 2 rapes at the 2018 apartment search. Probably they tried to find the victims in the following years, especially after the public inquiry. And, of course, they used the public interest about the MM case as an anchor for the victims to come out.

That doesn't mean, the MM allegations aren't serious enough!!! But if they have got the footage of the rapes, especially of the Hazel B. rape and if he gets sentenced for these three rapes, after Diana M. he wil end in safety confinement anyway.

So, no need to hurry according to MM, although i'm very sorry for all the grief her parents have to go through, almost for decades.

Couldn’t agree more.

IMO, after taking stock of the recent tabloid stories, I just don’t think there’s any possibility this man is walking free. The 5 cases will conclude much faster than 2026 & IMO he’ll also be in for murder when that day comes.

 

[SuperdadV8]

Couldn’t agree more.

IMO, after taking stock of the recent tabloid stories, I just don’t think there’s any possibility this man is walking free. The 5 cases will conclude much faster than 2026 & IMO he’ll also be in for murder when that day comes.

Well, it depends a little bit on the fact, how long the higher court from Lower Saxony takes to rule out, which court would be in charge of further working on the trial.

If it will decide, that the Brunswick court is in charge, fine! The trial will at least take until end of 2023. If not up to 2024. FF & company will appeal, in case of a sentence. That appeal will take at least one more year. If FF & company will play the fair trial card, the trial will have to go to the highest german court. Worst case would be, that the trial has to be done again from the beginning. 2026 will be reached, that's for sure.

If the higher court from Brunswick will decide, that the court in Magdeburg is in charge, FF & company will appeal again, saying the court in Frankfurt is in charge, because Italy extradited CB to germany and his first whereabout in germany after that was Frankfurt, in custody of the BKA. Another delay in time.

So yes, all the tactical appeals of FF & co. will have a single goal. Playing time, using legal loopholes that have to be assessed by a higher or even the highest german court. And that takes a lot of time, usually.

So the prosecution might be forced to appeal for an arrest warrant against CB in the MM case, wether they will have sufficient material for a charge, or not.

So let us all be confident, the higher court from Lower Saxony will produce waterproof legal grounds for the court in Brunswick to be the court in charge for doing the trial against CB. It will save at least 1.5 - 2 years of time.

 

[frank-cole]

Well, it depends a little bit on the fact, how long the higher court from Lower Saxony takes to rule out, which court would be in charge of further working on the trial.

If it will decide, that the Brunswick court is in charge, fine! The trial will at least take until end of 2023. If not up to 2024. FF & company will appeal, in case of a sentence. That appeal will take at least one more year. If FF & company will play the fair trial card, the trial will have to go to the highest german court. Worst case would be, that the trial has to be done again from the beginning. 2026 will be reached, that's for sure.

If the higher court from Brunswick will decide, that the court in Magdeburg is in charge, FF & company will appeal again, saying the court in Frankfurt is in charge, because Italy extradited CB to germany and his first whereabout in germany after that was Frankfurt, in custody of the BKA. Another delay in time.

So yes, all the tactical appeals of FF & co. will have a single goal. Playing time, using legal loopholes that have to be assessed by a higher or even the highest german court. And that takes a lot of time, usually.

So the prosecution might be forced to appeal for an arrest warrant against CB in the MM case, wether they will have sufficient material for a charge, or not.

So let us all be confident, the higher court from Lower Saxony will produce waterproof legal grounds for the court in Brunswick to be the court in charge for doing the trial against CB. It will save at least 1.5 - 2 years of time.

Well rationalised and you have a much more detailed understanding of the German legal system. Fulscher loves a technicality, he doesn’t stand a chance with the evidence IMO.
If Braunschweig win their appeal & remain jurisdiction could you imagine this being concluded before a potential release date?

 

[SuperdadV8]

Well rationalised and you have a much more detailed understanding of the German legal system. Fulscher loves a technicality, he doesn’t stand a chance with the evidence IMO.
If Braunschweig win their appeal & remain jurisdiction could you imagine this being concluded before a potential release date?

Yes, it will be. Chances are high enough to maintain an arrest warrant, for the time the trial will be pending.

But for me, there is still one major question.

Why does a solicitor, who is confident of the innocence of his client, plays the time-card?

Would't it be way more productive to face that trial of worldwide interest as soon as possible to prove innocence and to gain lots of publicity from the upcoming "fame"?

Who pays them? And if they work "pro bono", who asked them to take over the mandate for CB?

 

[Mex]

Looks like, as if they found the footage of at least 2 rapes at the 2018 apartment search. Probably they tried to find the victims in the following years, especially after the public inquiry. And, of course, they used the public interest about the MM case as an anchor for the victims to come out.

That doesn't mean, the MM allegations aren't serious enough!!! But if they have got the footage of the rapes, especially of the Hazel B. rape and if he gets sentenced for these three rapes, after Diana M. he wil end in safety confinement anyway.

So, no need to hurry according to MM, although i'm very sorry for all the grief her parents have to go through, almost for decades.

I have suspected for some time now that MM's parents already knew the way in which the investigation has been taken. It would have been inhumane not to have prepared them with as much information as it was possible to impart and I think that was done some time ago.

What you noticed regarding the case number puts a different perspective on things and raises some of the most thought provoking issues I for one had never visited before.