Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #37

[RichardKimble]

Your concerns regarding CB’s human rights do not appear to be reflected by his legal representatives. FF is challenging jurisdiction based on residency.

The rights issue for CB himself seems to centre on his prison conditions about which he is less than happy according to his correspondence.

In doing so and at the moment it could be said justice delayed is justice denied, but if there is fault is it perhaps the proficiency of the legal advice given to the Brunswick prosecutors office in not for seeing it.

 

[Mex]

First things first I imagine. ECHR considerations will have to wait until after any trial and appeals.

Do you mean FF is keeping his powder dry until he sees what tune the public are playing should appeal material be required?

 

[Okapi]

Best if I leave it to Superdad to elucidate since it is he you are quoting.

For me as far as HB case is concerned ~ it really doesn't matter when she asked police to investigate on her behalf the only cases being investigated at the time were filed in 2018 and that was the file under which her case was investigated.

Who knows when any of the four cases for which CB was indicted were added or some may even have have been subtracted. Each case had to be investigated on its merits before it could be added to the investigation filed under 2018 as stand alone cases.

Had DM's case not been done and dusted by then very likely they would have shared a case number, whatever that may have been.

I think it is logical that HB's individual case shared the same case file as the other four individual cases. None were numbered independently. All are 2018.
My opinion.

Coming back to this one.

HCW said in 2020 that the BKA had asked the Portuguese for assistance in investigating all sexual crimes in the area at the time of MM’s disappearance. (Which would ostensibly imo include any break and enter sexual assaults of adult females as well as the several intruder allegations concerning children in holiday lets).

However, as at that time, it appears that only one case was passed forward, that of the 10yo German girl who was subjected to indecent exposure on the beach at Salema in April 2007.

Referring specifically to that case, HCW said: “We have been investigating since April 2019.”

Madeleine McCann suspect 'might have carried out more rapes on the Algarve'

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Your concerns regarding CB’s human rights do not appear to be reflected by his legal representatives. FF is challenging jurisdiction based on residency.

The rights issue for CB himself seems to centre on his prison conditions about which he is less than happy according to his correspondence.

According to Maslow CB is looking to have his needs met in line with the hierarchy all humans follow, his physiological and safety needs come before higher level needs.

That said, CB has quite clearly stated his discomfort at being found guilty in the media, he is unhappy that people think he is a child murderer and professes his innocence - which, like it or not, could actually be true!

 

[Mex]

In doing so and at the moment it could be said justice delayed is justice denied, but if there is fault is it perhaps the proficiency of the legal advice given to the Brunswick prosecutors office in not for seeing it.

From the point of view of women like HB you never said a truer word than “justice delayed is justice denied”. It certainly was a long time coming given that the violent crime she endured took place in 2004.

Portugal police could reopen case into rape of Irish woman in 2004

Possible inquiry into assault on Hazel Behan comes after claims against Madeleine McCann suspect

www.theguardian.com

I see no fault in defenders playing for time in the defence of the accused, particularly if it is as a last resort.

What advice would you have given to Brunswick which would have allowed them to circumvent the procedural move which made use of the law as it stands in Germany?

But lets look on the bright side.

The delay has allowed more time to probe in the MM case. And that seems to be exactly what is happening.

 

[RichardKimble]

What advice would you have given to Brunswick which would have allowed them to circumvent the procedural move which made use of the law as it stands in Germany?

But lets look on the bright side.

The delay has allowed more time to probe in the MM case. And that seems to be exactly what is happening.

Not for me to advise, I'm commenting on what I see, Why did the BKA legal team not see the challenge coming and it being successful, FF didn't just rock up to a court room and say his client lived elsewhere and the court agree just cause FF said so, some legal considerations much have been held by the court.

 

[Davieson]

Do you mean FF is keeping his powder dry until he sees what tune the public are playing should appeal material be required?

Not really, I was just meaning that he was dealing with defence issues as they arise.
Procedural matters first. From a defence point of view a change in prosecutor might mean a reassessment of the charges.

 

[Mex]

Coming back to this one.

HCW said in 2020 that the BKA had asked the Portuguese for assistance in investigating all sexual crimes in the area at the time of MM’s disappearance. (Which would ostensibly imo include any break and enter sexual assaults of adult females as well as the several intruder allegations concerning children in holiday lets).

However, as at that time, it appears that only one case was passed forward, that of the 10yo German girl who was subjected to indecent exposure on the beach at Salema in April 2007.

Referring specifically to that case, HCW said: “We have been investigating since April 2019.”

Madeleine McCann suspect 'might have carried out more rapes on the Algarve'

Those which were perhaps more relevant to MM's case seem to have been studiously ignored if only one case was referred to the BKA.

Madeleine McCann police seek intruder who attacked girls at holiday homes

Detectives investigating girl's disappearance look for dark-haired man who sexually abused five girls in Algarve

www.theguardian.com

 

[G-Unit]

Do you mean FF is keeping his powder dry until he sees what tune the public are playing should appeal material be required?

All procedures must first be followed in the state first. Lawyers with an eye on the ECHR will raise the fair trial issue when the trial (if any) begins. The state will respond and the matter will continue thereafter through any appeals etc. The only other way is to begin a civil case, which will a) be expensive and b) may not be necessary if no trial ensues.

 

[onemoremiletogo]

Coming back to this one.

HCW said in 2020 that the BKA had asked the Portuguese for assistance in investigating all sexual crimes in the area at the time of MM’s disappearance. (Which would ostensibly imo include any break and enter sexual assaults of adult females as well as the several intruder allegations concerning children in holiday lets).

However, as at that time, it appears that only one case was passed forward, that of the 10yo German girl who was subjected to indecent exposure on the beach at Salema in April 2007.

Referring specifically to that case, HCW said: “We have been investigating since April 2019.”

Madeleine McCann suspect 'might have carried out more rapes on the Algarve'

asked the Portuguese for assistance...
PJ, what they didn't see, what they didn't find...and time, time and more time.

 

[Mex]

According to Maslow CB is looking to have his needs met in line with the hierarchy all humans follow, his physiological and safety needs come before higher level needs.

That said, CB has quite clearly stated his discomfort at being found guilty in the media, he is unhappy that people think he is a child murderer and professes his innocence - which, like it or not, could actually be true!

Whatever the crime the accused normally pleads not guilty and my liking or not doesn't come into the equation. Nor does my decided preference for the five pending cases currently delayed to be heard in a court of law not in letters from jail to the MSM.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Whatever the crime the accused normally pleads not guilty and my liking or not doesn't come into the equation. Nor does my decided preference for the five pending cases currently delayed to be heard in a court of law not in letters from jail to the MSM.

Please provide a source detailing CB’s pleading history in his previous trials.

We are only hearing about the suspect’s letters through MSM because the prosecution initiated a media trial. Had they not done so we would have heard real evidence and an outcome when an actual trial occurred.

A much better result for all concerned.

 

[Mex]

Not really, I was just meaning that he was dealing with defence issues as they arise.
Procedural matters first. From a defence point of view a change in prosecutor might mean a reassessment of the charges.

I don't think FF et al have many options and are playing for time with one. But I think CB will have his day in court to have his case argued for him whoever is prosecuting him.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

I don't think FF et al have many options and are playing for time with one. But I think CB will have his day in court to have his case argued for him whoever is prosecuting him.

Who knows what course of action FF will take, certainly the prosecutors didn’t see his last move coming. The ECHR is the last option, he will have opportunities to appeal beforehand and he will most likely raise the media claims then.

Let’s be honest, FF has had three years and apparently, according to the prosecutor, the MM investigation could go on beyond 2026.

I don’t think FF needs more time, he is probably more concerned about retiring before CB is charged given the current pace of the investigation.

 

[frank-cole]

I don't think FF et al have many options and are playing for time with one. But I think CB will have his day in court to have his case argued for him whoever is prosecuting him.

IMO, inevitably these cases will all be heard in court. IMO the cases will be decided based solely on the evidence. I don’t think there’s going to be an extra special (non evidence based) legal move that will rescue CB from these charges.

 

[Mex]

IMO, inevitably these cases will all be heard in court. IMO the cases will be decided based solely on the evidence. I don’t think there’s going to be an extra special (non evidence based) legal move that will rescue CB from these charges.

I too am sure these cases will be heard eventually. The work has been carried out and I think that what is evidence in one German jurisdiction will be considered evidence in any other. I think it is unfortunate for these unrelated cases that they have been so influenced by delay as a result the MM case for which no-one has yet been indicted.

I think there is a real will for prosecutors to prosecute that one if the time comes and I think that one will happen too whether in Germany or in Portugal.
The process to enable that choice is already in place if necessary.

Originally from the Mirror
Days after replacing the previous lead prosecutor, he led the move to make convicted German paedophile CB an “arguido” in the case.

Mr LMC persuaded bosses in Lisbon to agree to prepare the way for possible criminal charges against CB – currently in prison in his home country– if German prosecutors find evidence linking him to Madeleine’s disappearance on May3, 2007, when she was three.
__________________________

“The decision to make CB an arguido was very much his.”

__________________________

CB was made an arguido after warnings from lawyers that Portugal’s 15-year limit on prosecutions of serious crimes could prevent him being prosecuted after Tuesday. The source said: “LMC wants to make sure there’s no impediment to the possibility of a prosecution here.

“But that alone is not the reason this move was made.

“Legally, there has to be a sound basis for anyone to be made an arguido, and there are multiple reasons why CB is in the frame.”

The source said CB could be prosecuted in Portugal or Germany.

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[Denis R Tandib]

I too am sure these cases will be heard eventually. The work has been carried out and I think that what is evidence in one German jurisdiction will be considered evidence in any other. I think it is unfortunate for these unrelated cases that they have been so influenced by delay as a result the MM case for which no-one has yet been indicted.

I think there is a real will for prosecutors to prosecute that one if the time comes and I think that one will happen too whether in Germany or in Portugal.
The process to enable that choice is already in place if necessary.

Originally from the Mirror
Days after replacing the previous lead prosecutor, he led the move to make convicted German paedophile CB an “arguido” in the case.

Mr LMC persuaded bosses in Lisbon to agree to prepare the way for possible criminal charges against CB – currently in prison in his home country– if German prosecutors find evidence linking him to Madeleine’s disappearance on May3, 2007, when she was three.
__________________________

“The decision to make CB an arguido was very much his.”

__________________________

CB was made an arguido after warnings from lawyers that Portugal’s 15-year limit on prosecutions of serious crimes could prevent him being prosecuted after Tuesday. The source said: “LMC wants to make sure there’s no impediment to the possibility of a prosecution here.

“But that alone is not the reason this move was made.

“Legally, there has to be a sound basis for anyone to be made an arguido, and there are multiple reasons why CB is in the frame.”

The source said CB could be prosecuted in Portugal or Germany.

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Digital newsstand featuring 7000+ of the world’s most popular newspapers & magazines. Enjoy unlimited reading on up to 5 devices with 7-day free trial.

www.pressreader.com

Below BBM, from Wikipedia:

The investigating police may ask the arguido more direct accusatory questions (the answers to which would not be admissible in court if possibly self-incriminatory and asked of a non-arguido) but the arguido must be presented with whatever evidence is held against them,[7] and unlike a witness has the right to remain silent,[8] not to answer any question that may incriminate the person, and does not face legal action for lying.

The Arade dam search indicates that the BKA is sharing evidence with the PJ and probably the Met.

While we can’t be certain what evidence has been shared, for the Portuguese to classify CB as an arguudo, he must have been provided the evidence against him that the Portuguese are holding against him. If this evidence is different to what the BKA are holding, I would think it would give FF an opportunity for legal redress.

Since the arguido status was placed on CB, he and FF have been quite adamant in letters and in media statements (FF) that there is no evidence and CB didn’t commit the crime.

IMO, it’s another indication that the evidence LE has is not strong enough charge CB anytime soon.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Those which were perhaps more relevant to MM's case seem to have been studiously ignored if only one case was referred to the BKA.

Madeleine McCann police seek intruder who attacked girls at holiday homes

Detectives investigating girl's disappearance look for dark-haired man who sexually abused five girls in Algarve

www.theguardian.com

Or perhaps there was nothing to link them to the CB investigation.

Although it’s been alleged that CB often had a personal aroma of petrol, he doesn’t fit the description of the perpetrator detailed in the Guardian article you cite.

There were some quotes from Andy Redwood I found interesting though:

“Redwood said the assumption that Madeleine was abducted "may not follow with all our thinking" on the case.”

“… police were considering the possibility that Madeleine was not alive when taken from the apartment as well as the possibility that she was… “

 

[Okapi]

Or perhaps there was nothing to link them to the CB investigation.

Although it’s been alleged that CB often had a personal aroma of petrol, he doesn’t fit the description of the perpetrator detailed in the Guardian article you cite.

There were some quotes from Andy Redwood I found interesting though:

“Redwood said the assumption that Madeleine was abducted "may not follow with all our thinking" on the case.”

“… police were considering the possibility that Madeleine was not alive when taken from the apartment as well as the possibility that she was… “

It’s interesting that whether this was one or several perpetrators, they had a similar approach, namely that intruders had entered occupied apartments, and lingered possibly for some while.

As far as descriptions go, I do always wonder about wigs being worn.

From that article: “In most cases now being examined, the incidents happened between 2am and 5am.”

Anyone snooping around apartments in the middle of the night is not going to crop up in too many random holidaymaker photos during daylight hours imo.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

It’s interesting that whether this was one or several perpetrators, they had a similar approach, namely that intruders had entered occupied apartments, and lingered possibly for some while.

As far as descriptions go, I do always wonder about wigs being worn.

From that article: “In most cases now being examined, the incidents happened between 2am and 5am.”

Anyone snooping around apartments in the middle of the night is not going to crop up in too many random holidaymaker photos during daylight hours imo.

Unfortunately their are many paedophiles about, IIRC, I read somewhere that it’s 1:200 men or 0.5% of the male population.

CB did seem to be interested in dress-ups but I don’t know if he has committed any of his previous crimes in disguise beyond his body-stocking in the DM and potentially the HB case.

Given the level of motivation of the BKA investigators, I think we can be certain they would have looked at these offences very carefully and then excluded them from the investigation into CB. There can’t be any physical or circumstantial evidence linking him to these cases IMO.