Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #4

[JediJim]

I’d imagine Praia de luz has been on high alert since 2007. It’s probably one of the safest places to visit , following MM.
I’d imagine cctv now covers the resort, I’d be frankly amazed if it didn’t.

 

[Deleted member 268067]

Rape often leaves very little DNA, which is why the vast majority of cases go unsolved. There was a single hair found at the scene apparently.
I agree about the timeline, for me it's not consistent with abusing or killing her in the apartment.

There wasn’t necessarily a single hair found at the scene. There was a single hair preserved. We don’t know the forensic load that was actually available to them.

 

[Busyliz]

The point about lifting her from her bed and the efit of the person carrying a child is an extremely good point, if it was her it makes sense she was handed to someone else and therefor lying in the persons arms in the way shown on the sketch.

 

[Ardoch]

Watching the Netflix documentary, a woman answered the door to a man talkings about an orphanage. He was looking at her three year old daughter at the time.
The next day, the woman came downstairs and found the same man in her house, with her daughter!
The orphanage story is interesting, there was atleast two different men involved in this. No such orphanage existed. We’re these men staking out places with young children.?..The fact that the man entered this woman’s living room while she was upstairs suggests to me this was a planned abduction. No other explanations for it.
It’s also suggested that he had similarities to Tannerman. Was this him?
Could he be connected to CB?

One of the scariest stories in that documentary. I wonder if that was fully investigated and what the outcome was?
I don't know what the figures were for sex offenders in the area at that time, but I would imagine that it wasn't that much different to any other holiday/beach area in any country.

 

[Victoria Chambers]

There are also many psychopaths that dont commit hideous crimes,or any crimes at all.
It is purely MOO because I dont have time now to look it up and check but I believe a psychopaths early years would have an effect on them and if those early years were filled with harsh discipline and an uncaring environment for example that could definitely shape how extreme a psychopaths adult behaviour could pan out. Nurture can still play a part,not all psychopaths are broken,some can function perfectly well in society and indeed do great things.
There is a doctor who conducted a study using brain scans,he scanned his own brain too and discovered he was a psychopath himself ( there was more to it obviously), I cant think of his name now,but yeah he was a prolific doctor specialising in that kind of thing,not a child raping murderer.

I saw that programme too. The tests showed that the diagnosed all had a smaller, possibly enlarged, 'empathy sac' in their brains, from which the average person would show a high level of electric activity when they are feeling remorseful etc. The programme was called 'Born to kill. Nature of nurture?', and I think that the phsycologist who led the testing, answered the shows own question when he too was proven to have the same 'lack of empathy' activity in his own brain sac! He did state that his own upbringing was the polar opposite of that of the prisoners, whose early lives did seem to reflect each others And there you have it.. Although born with a brain abnormality, it does come down to "monkey see, monkey do ' so to speak. And how a child is taught, shown, spoken to, encouraged and praised during them vital years of brain growth, will be evident in their adult years! Strange but true! X

 

[Armchair_Defective]

I just tried it too. Got behind my door and was able to pull it open to about 70 degrees which is even more open than how it was described. I'm pretty broad, probably wider than CB.

The other thing is GM has stated he was convinced someone was hidden behind the door during his check. His knowledge of that apartment and how much room was behind there is probably better than anything we can interpret from photos and floorplans.

Madeleine McCann: Gerry certain he was in bedroom with kidnapper

That's one of the reasons I'm not convinced it sounds like staging together with the window in the room being open but then not open when the police arrive. Those shutters only open from the inside and are rather noisy, none of the friends ( 10 minutes) between checks hears them going up or down. GM and another man he was standing talking to outside the apartment don't hear them either. The door being partially open would obscure a large part of the cot on the right and Gerry says he pokes his head into the room to see. He also gave an angle - 60 degrees and said it was 2/3rds open.
As I say I'm pretty small, 5 feet, I tried a door at 2/3rds open and put an object where the end of my foot/shoulder was. I poked my head round my door just slightly and I could see the object I left, my head/ body was only hidden by about 4 inches of the door when I was behind it. So if this was CB behind the door it was a bigger man, breathing heavily, possibly having adrenaline going through him, heart racing and only inches away from GM. GM only said he had sensed someone months later, it wasn't something he told police.
I would love to get the measurements for the apartment so I could make a scale plan and see how much room there really is behind the door and the wardrobe to test my theory. Having actual measurements would mean it could be recreated quite accurately, less reliance on estimates and 'sensing' things.

 

[Davenixynix]

He could have been in a different room

 

[NCanning]

I've been reading this thread over the past few days, but have never posted.

Re the USB stick found under the animal bones, isn't it possible that it wasn't "placed" under the bones, but that it had been fed to the animal/placed in an orifice of the animal to hide the evidence, but then only resurfaced after the animal died and body decomposed?

Secondly, I have seen lots of people talk about "Maddie", however her parents have stated she was always without exception called Madeleine. Maybe it would be more respectful to call her Madeleine on here too?

Lastly, I have seen the artist's drawing of the man carrying the sleeping child, and I agree that is just not how a parent would carry their child. It's such an unnatural position. Parental instinct makes you hold the child in close to you or to lift them upright so that their head is on your shoulder. The sketch looks like he's carrying freshly ironed sheets or something - not his small sleeping daughter

 

[Tim N]

In 1994 he was in Germany and molested a child- he was 17.
Moved to Portugal in within a 40km radius, 2 blonde children disappeared, and a woman was raped on his beach route, which he was convicted for.
Leaving the area in 2008 for Germany, he worked 40km from a rural property he owned, which was also 40km from where Inga Gehricke disappeared in 2015.
Coincidentally he worked anda lived within a 40km radius of 3 unsolved child disappearances AND was known to be in the area in the latter two of those occurrences.

The really scary thing is based on the limited information we have, his comments appear to allude to child trafficking. Stolen for order evil.
Could CB's paedophilia and drug running aligned him with opportunity for big $ human trafficking?..and did it AT LEAST three times?

Frightingly, if each was a big $ transaction, he seems to have run out of money almost every 10 years. Being a suspect for 1996, 2007 and 2015..
Where did he get the money to start his business in Germany from 2008 onwards?
It'd be interesting to hear what others think.

I for one want to know so people like whoever did this can be hunted down.

 

[Armchair_Defective]

There wasn’t necessarily a single hair found at the scene. There was a single hair preserved. We don’t know the forensic load that was actually available to them.

Yes very good point. I did make the point that we don't know what exactly they found when analysing DNA, methods have moved on so much since 2005, so maybe when the German LE analysed it in 2017 they got a better profile. I think it's unfair to criticise the Pj at this stage when we don't know all the details.

 

[Armchair_Defective]

I've been reading this thread over the past few days, but have never posted.

Re the USB stick found under the animal bones, isn't it possible that it wasn't "placed" under the bones, but that it had been fed to the animal/placed in an orifice of the animal to hide the evidence, but then only resurfaced after the animal died and body decomposed?

Secondly, I have seen lots of people talk about "Maddie", however her parents have stated she was always without exception called Madeleine. Maybe it would be more respectful to call her Madeleine on here too?

Lastly, I have seen the artist's drawing of the man carrying the sleeping child, and I agree that is just not how a parent would carry their child. It's such an unnatural position. Parental instinct makes you hold the child in close to you or to lift them upright so that their head is on your shoulder. The sketch looks like he's carrying freshly ironed sheets or something - not his small sleeping daughter

Hi. just on your last point. Which artists drawing? There was one man eliminated as an innocent father in 2013 ( the so called 'Tanner man' sighting) and there is one still unidentified, seen by an Irish man called Martin Smith. You might want to research who Martin Smith said he thought that man looked like!

 

[tedtink]

Just because GM ‘sensed’ somebody behind the door it doesn’t mean that someone was actually there.
If he had sensed someone at the time, with his 3 children asleep in the appartment, surely he would have looked.
Our memories, perceptions can take on different meanings after an event- GM is no acception and perhaps that sense came after to fit his abduction theory ?
How many of us have sensed someone in our homes when there is actually no body there?
This is not a criticism of GM but it’s just human nature - our brains DO deceive us.

 

[peanutJelly]

I've been reading this thread over the past few days, but have never posted.

Re the USB stick found under the animal bones, isn't it possible that it wasn't "placed" under the bones, but that it had been fed to the animal/placed in an orifice of the animal to hide the evidence, but then only resurfaced after the animal died and body decomposed?

Secondly, I have seen lots of people talk about "Maddie", however her parents have stated she was always without exception called Madeleine. Maybe it would be more respectful to call her Madeleine on here too?

Lastly, I have seen the artist's drawing of the man carrying the sleeping child, and I agree that is just not how a parent would carry their child. It's such an unnatural position. Parental instinct makes you hold the child in close to you or to lift them upright so that their head is on your shoulder. The sketch looks like he's carrying freshly ironed sheets or something - not his small sleeping daughter

Yes I keep coming back to that sighting. My current thinking is that more than one people were involved. These were people with shared preferences who either spotted an opportunity for themselves or took Madeline for others (or both)

The confession later on was that CB took her, doesn’t mean it was for himself. And then the later Skype messages are about him wanting to take someone for himself. CB was quite young when he moved to Portugal, but with his history would have quickly found similar friends (or moved there to be with them as he knew them already). The other disappearances/rapes may therefore be linked, but doesn’t mean it was all CB?
Just my current theory based on what info has been released to date.

 

[photographer4]

I really wish someone ( man size) would have tested that in the apartment. From the photos I think the space up against the wall and jutting out bit of the built-in wardrobe looks tiny to me, there's a scale from forensics on one of the photos too but hard to see. I'm a small woman and I just tried 'hiding' behind my own door and I hardly fit without a wardrobe being there. ( felts slightly ridiculous too!) I suppose he could have hidden behind another door in the apartment but I'm not convinced. People should look up the police drawings / plan. It's a very compact apartment and apparently, GM went in there, visited the toilet, possibly watched football for a bit and then looked in on the children, as he said poking his head, into their room.

I haven't yet seen the drawings of the scene, nor actual (up close) photos.... I'll try to get to those so I can better visualize...

 

[tedtink]

Yes I keep coming back to that sighting. My current thinking is that more than one people were involved. These were people with shared preferences who either spotted an opportunity for themselves or took Madeline for others (or both)

The confession later on was that CB took her, doesn’t mean it was for himself. And then the later Skype messages are about him wanting to take someone for himself. CB was quite young when he moved to Portugal, but with his history would have quickly found similar friends (or moved there to be with them as he knew them already). The other disappearances/rapes may therefore be linked, but doesn’t mean it was all CB?
Just my current theory based on what info has been released to date.

it’s possible 2 abducters were involved.
It would have been difficult, clumsy to have lifted a sleeping child and have either climbed through a small window 47cm wide with her OR have climbed through yourself whilst leaving her on the bed below then lifting her through. It would have been much easier, however to have passed her through to someone else.

 

[Dlk79]

Just because GM ‘sensed’ somebody behind the door it doesn’t mean that someone was actually there.
If he had sensed someone at the time, with his 3 children asleep in the appartment, surely he would have looked.
Our memories, perceptions can take on different meanings after an event- GM is no acception and perhaps that sense came after to fit his abduction theory ?
How many of us have sensed someone in our homes when there is actually no body there?
This is not a criticism of GM but it’s just human nature - our brains DO deceive us.

I don't disagree, the point I was making is whether there was enough room behind the door or not. If GM said there was enough room, then he is in a better position than us to know based on his knowledge of the apartment, how far open the door was and his view of the room when he did his check.

 

[Ardoch]

it’s possible 2 abducters were involved.
It would have been difficult, clumsy to have lifted a sleeping child and have either climbed through a small window 47cm wide with her OR have climbed through yourself whilst leaving her on the bed below then lifting her through. It would have been much easier, however to have passed her through to someone else.

Especially given the possibility that they knew the children were being checked on (imo)
And even although they may have timed the checks, you'd still want a look-out just in case.

 

[NCanning]

Hi. just on your last point. Which artists drawing? There was one man eliminated as an innocent father in 2013 ( the so called 'Tanner man' sighting) and there is one still unidentified, seen by an Irish man called Martin Smith. You might want to research who Martin Smith said he thought that man looked like!

The sighting is the one where a man came forward and said that it was probably him after he collected his daughter. But a few people, inc myself, suspect that actually it might not have been the man who came forward, and that it might have been MM after all. Esp since the time of that sighting is pretty hazy

 

[tedtink]

The sighting is the one where a man came forward and said that it was probably him after he collected his daughter. But a few people, inc myself, suspect that actually it might not have been the man who came forward, and that it might have been MM after all. Esp since the time of that sighting is pretty hazy

The man didn't come forward - he was tracked down years later by the MET after they had contacted all the parents who used the creche that evening.

Sorry - he was quizzed at the time too.

 

[Wowno17]

I've been reading this thread over the past few days, but have never posted.

Re the USB stick found under the animal bones, isn't it possible that it wasn't "placed" under the bones, but that it had been fed to the animal/placed in an orifice of the animal to hide the evidence, but then only resurfaced after the animal died and body decomposed?

Secondly, I have seen lots of people talk about "Maddie", however her parents have stated she was always without exception called Madeleine. Maybe it would be more respectful to call her Madeleine on here too?

Lastly, I have seen the artist's drawing of the man carrying the sleeping child, and I agree that is just not how a parent would carry their child. It's such an unnatural position. Parental instinct makes you hold the child in close to you or to lift them upright so that their head is on your shoulder. The sketch looks like he's carrying freshly ironed sheets or something - not his small sleeping daughter

BBM

I agree it is possible the Tanner sighting was Madeleine.

But I personally believe the Tanner sighting was the man who came forward.

The reason for this is because surely the first thing he would say to police is that he was carrying his daughter, but he wasn't carrying her the way the sketch depicts? So this man must have carried his daughter in that way that night. Otherwise he would have told the officer that he didn't.

So unless we have this man and the abductor, BOTH carrying a child in the same manner around the same time, then he must have been the man Tanner saw.

Also in his reconstruction he wore the clothes he had on that night and they are extremely similar to the sketch.

I firmly think the Tanner sighting is the innocent father.

I think the Smith sighting is the abducter.

MOO

Pictured: The innocent father who was key suspect in Maddie investigation for SIX YEARS until he was cleared by his daughter's 'frilly pyjamas'