Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #4

[Dlk79]

Weird thought... any chance the guy was already IN the apartment before the parents left? Like hiding under a bed or something (as he did to the ex gf mentioned in the linked article)? It sounds far fetched, but... is it possible?

No room under the beds, only real possible place to hide was behind the door. It was half open when GM checked, he pulled it closed but it was half open again by the time MO checked. Some people have argued the space behind the door was too small too but i disagree. Unless you are almost as broad as a door, you can easily hide between the door and the wall if it was half open.

 

[rebel123]

Do we know at what age he was adopted? Likely there was an attachment disorder from a young age, you don't necessarily have to have abusive parents either, passive or lazy parenting reinforce bad behaviours in children. Lack of discipline is just as bad as authoritarian parenting in that sense.

Adopted as a baby.

 

[Ellmau]

Speculation if allowed.

Recruited at the children’s home in 95/96 with Nicole.

Now that's an interesting potential insight.

 

[Dlk79]

Any thoughts on where CB would have parked the car / camper van on the night of the abduction?

Also lets say he didn't use a car / camper van on the night in question, remember that he's rented two apartments in that area, which he could in theory of just walked too (he probably had an insight / understanding of how the authorities would conduct the investigation in the early hours / days after the abduction - so a good grasp of time).

Madeleine McCann's blonde suspect could be the man seen lurking near her apartment hours before she was snatched

If it was a planned abduction, either in the Ocean club car park or somewhere along that road but towards the Murat's residence would be my guess. If you consider the possible escape routes, those are the ones that carry the least amount of risk of being seen.

You'd think he wouldn't have gone down the road going past the Tapas, way too risky. Similarly with going in the direction of the Smith sighting. You'd have to walk past the entire block of apartments in the Ocean club where anybody could be coming out of their front door at any minute and then across a main road.

I just can't fathom someone walking street after street carrying a kidnapped child which is why I think he must have had somewhere close by to get to.

 

[Armchair_Defective]

No room under the beds, only real possible place to hide was behind the door. It was half open when GM checked, he pulled it closed but it was half open again by the time MO checked. Some people have argued the space behind the door was too small too but i disagree. Unless you are almost as broad as a door, you can easily hide between the door and the wall if it was half open.

I really wish someone ( man size) would have tested that in the apartment. From the photos I think the space up against the wall and jutting out bit of the built-in wardrobe looks tiny to me, there's a scale from forensics on one of the photos too but hard to see. I'm a small woman and I just tried 'hiding' behind my own door and I hardly fit without a wardrobe being there. ( felts slightly ridiculous too!) I suppose he could have hidden behind another door in the apartment but I'm not convinced. People should look up the police drawings / plan. It's a very compact apartment and apparently, GM went in there, visited the toilet, possibly watched football for a bit and then looked in on the children, as he said poking his head, into their room.

 

[Ardoch]

If it was a planned abduction, either in the Ocean club car park or somewhere along that road but towards the Murat's residence would be my guess. If you consider the possible escape routes, those are the ones that carry the least amount of risk of being seen.

You'd think he wouldn't have gone down the road going past the Tapas, way too risky. Similarly with going in the direction of the Smith sighting. You'd have to walk past the entire block of apartments in the Ocean club where anybody could be coming out of their front door at any minute and then across a main road.

I just can't fathom someone walking street after street carrying a kidnapped child which is why I think he must have had somewhere close by to get to.

More than likely a car parked further down the road.
I have a hunch that he didn't act alone. Although he may have crept into people's rooms before, this abduction sounds more planned than that - more ordered. A look-out who would have swiftly walked in the other direction - or hid in a bush for a while while someone else carried M away. IMO

 

[Ardoch]

I've not read (literally) too much into the time scale of how long someone had to abduct M but if two people - one in the room and one outside, were involved it wouldn't take that long to remove M. I'm wavering on the " was she given a sedative" theory but I suppose it would make sense given that although the area was quietish and dark she could have made an noise. IMO

 

[rebel123]

If it was a planned abduction, either in the Ocean club car park or somewhere along that road but towards the Murat's residence would be my guess. If you consider the possible escape routes, those are the ones that carry the least amount of risk of being seen.

You'd think he wouldn't have gone down the road going past the Tapas, way too risky. Similarly with going in the direction of the Smith sighting. You'd have to walk past the entire block of apartments in the Ocean club where anybody could be coming out of their front door at any minute and then across a main road.

I just can't fathom someone walking street after street carrying a kidnapped child which is why I think he must have had somewhere close by to get to.

Thanks, if you Google 'Maddie abduction maps', the first result throws up exactly as you describe, the resort to Murat's house. There is so much property around, you would think that CCTV caught something
somewhere.

 

[Dlk79]

Thanks, if you Google 'Maddie abduction maps', the first result throws up exactly as you describe, the resort to Murat's house. There is so much property around, you would think that CCTV caught something
somewhere.

Apparently not, no CCTV coverage anywhere in that area. Sounds incredible by today's stadards.

 

[Ardoch]

If a car was used, I can't see it being any of the ones that have been found so far, too conspicious.

 

[Dlk79]

More than likely a car parked further down the road.
I have a hunch that he didn't act alone. Although he may have crept into people's rooms before, this abduction sounds more planned than that - more ordered. A look-out who would have swiftly walked in the other direction - or hid in a bush for a while while someone else carried M away. IMO

I agree regarding the accomplice. I still keep having doubts about the guy who came forward 6 years later to say he was probably the Tanner sighting. Read something about him saying he'd have been going the other direction.

The way the child was being carried was odd. A parent doesn't carry a sleeping child that way. If it was MM, the other odd thing is her head was on the wrong side if someone had just lifted her out of her bed as she was laying. It could be possible that someone passed her through the window to someone else which then reverses the way she is laying. Just a theory.

 

[Edinlass]

The lack of CCTV is frightening and I would bet anyone living in the vicinity would be aware of same. For an affluent area it surprises me that ocean beach never had any either. I hope there is now...

 

[Ardoch]

I agree regarding the accomplice. I still keep having doubts about the guy who came forward 6 years later to say he was probably the Tanner sighting. Read something about him saying he'd have been going the other direction.

The way the child was being carried was odd. A parent doesn't carry a sleeping child that way. If it was MM, the other odd thing is her head was on the wrong side if someone had just lifted her out of her bed as she was laying. It could be possible that someone passed her through the window to someone else which then reverses the way she is laying. Just a theory.

I agree. It would have been quicker to have someone for her to be passed too and less noise and movement in the bedroom than if two people had been in there.

 

[Dlk79]

I really wish someone ( man size) would have tested that in the apartment. From the photos I think the space up against the wall and jutting out bit of the built-in wardrobe looks tiny to me, there's a scale from forensics on one of the photos too but hard to see. I'm a small woman and I just tried 'hiding' behind my own door and I hardly fit without a wardrobe being there. ( felts slightly ridiculous too!) I suppose he could have hidden behind another door in the apartment but I'm not convinced. People should look up the police drawings / plan. It's a very compact apartment and apparently, GM went in there, visited the toilet, possibly watched football for a bit and then looked in on the children, as he said poking his head, into their room.

Sorry, just giggled to myself imagining you getting behind the door.

I mean he may not have been hidden behind the door at all, the moving door oddity could have been due to to an open window or something. I have seen the apartment floor plans and the photos, I personally think it's possible to get in behind there is all I'm saying.

 

[Dlk79]

I really wish someone ( man size) would have tested that in the apartment. From the photos I think the space up against the wall and jutting out bit of the built-in wardrobe looks tiny to me, there's a scale from forensics on one of the photos too but hard to see. I'm a small woman and I just tried 'hiding' behind my own door and I hardly fit without a wardrobe being there. ( felts slightly ridiculous too!) I suppose he could have hidden behind another door in the apartment but I'm not convinced. People should look up the police drawings / plan. It's a very compact apartment and apparently, GM went in there, visited the toilet, possibly watched football for a bit and then looked in on the children, as he said poking his head, into their room.

I just tried it too. Got behind my door and was able to pull it open to about 70 degrees which is even more open than how it was described. I'm pretty broad, probably wider than CB.

The other thing is GM has stated he was convinced someone was hidden behind the door during his check. His knowledge of that apartment and how much room was behind there is probably better than anything we can interpret from photos and floorplans.

Madeleine McCann: Gerry certain he was in bedroom with kidnapper

 

[Fizzysolvescrime91]

Long time lurker, hello all! Not sure if I'm responding correctly by replying to this, but here we go.

What a ridiculous "sound suggestion"/ assumption to make. You're adding to the misconceptions of BPD, and MPD which are on the complete opposite end of the spectrum to one another to begin with. Please research these conditions a little further than a quick google search, and you will find that the symptoms of both are very different.

I am sure he has mental health issues, but assuming his diagnosis is not the way to go. ESPECIALLY when it comes to someone as perverted and depraved as he is.

As you were

hi and welcome, I was also a long time lurker!

with respect, I’m disappointed that I’ve clearly not represented myself clearly here due to your response and the numerous others saying that a “bad childhood cannot be blamed”

firstly, absolutely no blaming here. As someone who has experienced childhood trauma I can assure you all I’m the exact opposite.

secondly, nowhere did I lump MPD and BPD together. If you read the study and my post, I centre the rationale on the LIKELIHOOD of developing such disorders when having been the victim of any childhood trauma (rejection, abuse or any part of the spectrum). Respectfully, the study was not a quick google search, it’s something I’m actively working on academically.

I’m also working on Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACEs) and their impact on the adult psyche also. It’s by far the most interesting thing I’ve ever worked on.

users have got to understand that discussions around psychology and profiling will crop up on WS. They never excuse offending behaviour, but look to explain how life experiences potentially contribute. If they are respectful and sourced, you need to accept them as part of discussing criminals.

And for further clarity - discussing a negative childhood doesn’t set out to blame any parents either. ACEs can be dealt out by anybody. No one needs to be discussing his adoptive parents “failures” - that’s really unfair when we know nothing about it.

 

[Ardoch]

I just tried it too. Got behind my door and was able to pull it open to about 70 degrees which is even more open than how it was described. I'm pretty broad, probably wider than CB.

The other thing is GM has stated he was convinced someone was hidden behind the door during his check. His knowledge of that apartment and how much room was behind there is probably better than anything we can interpret from photos and floorplans.

Madeleine McCann: Gerry certain he was in bedroom with kidnapper

Any more details or links to that story? I still haven't subscribed to The Telegraph- yet!

 

[Dlk79]

Any more details or links to that story? I still haven't subscribed to The Telegraph- yet!

Madeleine's father: 'Abductor was hiding in apartment while I checked

Madeleine McCann’s father Gerry haunted by spectre of abductor behind the door | The Sunday Times

It was covered a few places, think I saw it on a viedeo clip originally where they did an interview.

 

[Ardoch]

hi and welcome, I was also a long time lurker!

with respect, I’m disappointed that I’ve clearly not represented myself clearly here due to your response and the numerous others saying that a “bad childhood cannot be blamed”

firstly, absolutely no blaming here. As someone who has experienced childhood trauma I can assure you all I’m the exact opposite.

secondly, nowhere did I lump MPD and BPD together. If you read the study and my post, I centre the rationale on the LIKELIHOOD of developing such disorders when having been the victim of any childhood trauma (rejection, abuse or any part of the spectrum). Respectfully, the study was not a quick google search, it’s something I’m actively working on academically.

I’m also working on Acute Childhood Experiences (ACEs) and their impact on the adult psyche also. It’s by far the most interesting thing I’ve ever worked on.

users have got to understand that discussions around psychology and profiling will crop up on WS. They never excuse offending behaviour, but look to explain how life experiences potentially contribute. If they are respectful and sourced, you need to accept them as part of discussing criminals.

And for further clarity - discussing a negative childhood doesn’t set out to blame any parents either. ACEs can be dealt out by anybody. No one needs to be discussing his adoptive parents “failures” - that’s really unfair when we know nothing about it.

I didn't think that you linked the two together on your recent post. You stated it very well and it sounds like you do have an insight into this through studies.
Like most people here, I'm curious about human behaviour and the criminal mind; I think understanding someone like CB - who could be a possible criminal with Antisocial Personality Disorder among other disorders, (imo) is an interesting and perplexing subject: there's much discussion and disagreement as to it's causes and in diagnosing and treating it.
I wasn't going to comment until further proof of these crimes and CB's possible involvement, but I can understand people speculating.

 

[JediJim]

Watching the Netflix documentary, a woman answered the door to a man talkings about an orphanage. He was looking at her three year old daughter at the time.
The next day, the woman came downstairs and found the same man in her house, with her daughter!
The orphanage story is interesting, there was atleast two different men involved in this. No such orphanage existed. We’re these men staking out places with young children.?..The fact that the man entered this woman’s living room while she was upstairs suggests to me this was a planned abduction. No other explanations for it.
It’s also suggested that he had similarities to Tannerman. Was this him?
Could he be connected to CB?