Madonna Angers the Vatican

[Show Me]

Well, like I said, I'm pretty much offended by her no matter what she does. I don't think she's "persecuted," so other than trying to still be relevant at her advanced age in an effort to try and sell some tickets, I don't think she's got any real message. She's over and gasping for a last breath. Its sad really.

Pretty pathetic when you have to mock religion to get attention....(Look at ME!!!!! What can I do to shock people into paying attention to ME?)

Madonna is a washed up soon to be hasbeen who can't come to terms with her old age...she completely disgusts me.

 

[windovervocalcords]

Susan Sontag announced over three decades ago, "the whole point of "Camp" is to dethrone the serious".

Madonna is a talented artist. She does "camp" to a tee.

I enjoy her music and theater. She "pushes the envelope". She makes people uncomfortable. Some of her material makes me uncomfortable too.

So what? She's an artist. That's her "job".

"You can call me a sinner
You can call me a saint
Celebrate me for who I am
Dislike me for what I ain't

Put me up on a pedestal
Or drag me down in the dirt
Sticks and stones will break my bones
But your words will never hurt.

This is who I am
You can
Like it or not
You can
Love me or leave me
Cus I'm never gonna stop
No no"

http://www.lyricszoo.com/madonna/like-it-or-not/

 

[sandraladeda]

I used to like Madonna, in her early days that is. She started to get too vulgar for me, almost embarrassing to watch actually. I have no idea what's up with her career these days. Her looks have changed drastically. Her concert get ups these days crack me up. Body suits....what's up with that? She looks like an idiot with her ugly arms (have you ever seen them?) and her bulging muscular legs. If she thinks that she looks stunning for someone her age, she needs to think again. She looks pretty gross to me........This latest stunt is probably something she's thought up to give her career the boost that it needs. Only makes me more repulsed by her and her antics.

Are you kidding me? She has a GREAT body - I'd trade with her in a hearbeat, 'cept, of course, I am already quite a hottie myself.....

 

[lilsister]

Again, she is just soooo boring and unoriginal and I should not even post about her because her "art" is so played and pathetic. She got exactly what she wanted...tons of people talking about her. It is great if you love her music...totally cool but I just think that she does not have anything else to offer society other than mediocre music and she should realize her intellectual limitations. JMO .

 

[Nova]

Obviously Madonna's latest stunt will be offensive to those who hold the symbol of the cross with great reverance. If one does not share this view, then one might find it difficult to see why all the fuss. However, if Madonna were to substitute "American Flag" for "Crucifix", there would be a great cry for boycotts and protests, imo, and rightly so. Her actions would still be a form of freedom of expression, but there would be a lot fewer people shrugging their shoulders, saying "what's the big deal?"

If Madonna's Crucifix imagery isn't bothersome to you, consider something that would be bothersome to you - and now you know, that's how some Christians/Catholics feel.

imho

Did we ever figure out WHY the crucifixion reference is considered offensive? As I said above, it isn't an uncommon image in Western culture. Is it offensive here just because Madonna's doing it? Is it because she (like most post-modernists) tends to mix sacred and secular images?

 

[southcitymom]

Did we ever figure out WHY the crucifixion reference is considered offensive? As I said above, it isn't an uncommon image in Western culture. Is it offensive here just because Madonna's doing it? Is it because she (like most post-modernists) tends to mix sacred and secular images?

I think the crucifix reference is offensive to some Christians because Madonna is substituting herself for Jesus and many Christians consider Jesus the Savior of the World and are appalled at the idea of Madonna as Savior of the World. It strikes them as sacriligious, as something that mocks what they consider holy. Another example of this would be in satantic worship where an inverted cross is often one of the symbols used in obvious mockery of the Christian Cross.

I think Madonna's image of herself on a cross is provocative and interesting and worthy of discussion, but I tend to like art that pushes the envelope.

Certainly I can see why some Christians would take umbrage...but that is one of the goals of art - to get a strong reaction.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I think the crucifix reference is offensive to some Christians because Madonna is substituting herself for Jesus and many Christians consider Jesus the Savior of the World and are appalled at the idea of Madonna as Savior of the World. It strikes them as sacriligious, as something that mocks what they consider holy. Another example of this would be in satantic worship where an inverted cross is often one of the symbols used in obvious mockery of the Christian Cross.

I think Madonna's image of herself on a cross is provocative and interesting and worthy of discussion, but I tend to like art that pushes the envelope.

Certainly I can see why some Christians would take umbrage...but that is one of the goals of art - to get a strong reaction.

That opens a whole other discussion about the definition of the word "art." I've heard that people sling cow dung on the side of a barn and call it "art," but I just can't get to that place. So, while some people could call a washed up, has been, *advertiser censored* wearing a crown of thorns and pretending that she's being crucified while she's lipsynching "art," I just don't see it.

 

[southcitymom]

That opens a whole other discussion about the definition of the word "art." I've heard that people sling cow dung on the side of a barn and call it "art," but I just can't get to that place. So, while some people could call a washed up, has been, *advertiser censored* wearing a crown of thorns and pretending that she's being crucified while she's lipsynching "art," I just don't see it.

art[size=-1]1[/size] [url="http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/JPG/pron.jpg"]http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/JPG/pron.jpg[/url] ([font=verdana, sans-serif] P [/font]) Pronunciation Key (ärt)
n.

1. Human effort to imitate, supplement, alter, or counteract the work of nature.
   1. <LI type=a>The conscious production or arrangement of sounds, colors, forms, movements, or other elements in a manner that affects the sense of beauty, specifically the production of the beautiful in a graphic or plastic medium. <LI type=a>The study of these activities.
   2. The product of these activities; human works of beauty considered as a group.
2. High quality of conception or execution, as found in works of beauty; aesthetic value.
3. A field or category of art, such as music, ballet, or literature.
4. A nonscientific branch of learning; one of the liberal arts.
5. 
   
   1. <LI type=a>A system of principles and methods employed in the performance of a set of activities: the art of building.
   2. A trade or craft that applies such a system of principles and methods: the art of the lexicographer.
6. 
   
   1. <LI type=a>Skill that is attained by study, practice, or observation: the art of the baker; the blacksmith's art.
   2. Skill arising from the exercise of intuitive faculties: “Self-criticism is an art not many are qualified to practice” (Joyce Carol Oates).
7. 
   
   1. <LI type=a>arts Artful devices, stratagems, and tricks.
   2. Artful contrivance; cunning.
8. Printing. Illustrative material.

These are all interesting definitions, but you are right that the personal definition of ART is subjective. I am jusy wacky enough to give the term ART a very broad definition. I will include dung slung at the side of the bard as ART. I will include Madonna on a cross as ART. Now, whether or not the ART is worth a darn, is another discussion all together.


However, the very fact that we are discussing Madonna's contribution as a self and criticallly-proclaimed Artist means she has accomplished what most Artists set out to accomplish. She has made us think about something bigger than what she is and she has evoked strong feelings.

Now, when I see cow dung on the side of the barn, I don't really have strong feelings. And the only think I might think is - someone needs to clean that up! Glad it's not me.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Thanks. I own a dictionary.

 

[southcitymom]

Madonna Speaks On The Middle East
http://www.perezhilton.com/topics/politik/
Seizing the heightened spotlight of her performance in Rome on Sunday - on the heels of being criticized by the Pope - Madonna chose to shine the light on peace in the Middle East.



http://www.perezhilton.com/topics/madonna/madonna_speaks_on_the_middle_east_20060806.php
More religious symbolism.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

"I’ve seen the Madonna show in question, and it’s excellent. The scene involving the cross is deeply moving within the context of the performance of “Live To Tell.” In normal circumstances, I’d enjoy a vigorous debate over her use of the crucifixion of Christ to illustrate how we have worshipped the man but not fully embraced his message of social justice and helping your brother. But to even engage these questions being posed by religious leaders when there is literally a Holy War being waged that escalates by the day is surreal and sublimely ridiculous. Back off Madonna and start working your asses off to convince our world leaders to choose peace. We can have this debate over her next road trip, assuming there’s still a world left for her to tour."

Read All About It: Rome ‘unites to condemn Madonna’, Hezbollah rocket attack kills 8 people
http://ireadthenewstoday.wordpress.com/tag/news/

With all due respect darlin. If we want to discuss Madonna, we'll do so.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

With all due respect,"darlin", discuss whatever you like regarding Madonna. Last time I looked her name was in the thread title.

Gee thanks for your permission!!! Just don't get so preachy and we'll all get along fine. :blowkiss:

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Religious leaders may have snubbed Madonna as a publicity-seeking blasphemer, but there was pure adoration from Italian fans when the pop star staged a mock crucifixion at her concert in Rome.

The crowd of 70,000 cheered wildly and many snapped pictures with mobile phone cameras when the diva rose from the stage crucified on a mirrored cross and wearing a crown of thorns.

“She does it to play, not to offend,” said Benedetta Mori, a 31-year-old fan wearing a T-shirt with an image of Madonna on the cross.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/breaking/story.asp?j=220910640&p=zzx9yy455&n=220911526

There are examples of things that offend huge amounts of people. One is flying the Confederate flag. So, many people, out of respect for all those who may be offended by such things, refrain from doing them. They don't sell tickets to them. It just boggles the mind that she would continue to do this knowing that millions upon millions of people take GREAT offense to it. I guess its her right to do so, but I'm not sure why anyone would cheer her on knowing the hurt that it causes so many people.

 

[southcitymom]

She is "cheered on" for her art, music and general "spunk".

Some people grok her art, others do not.

I also think some people feel powerful being a part of her performances - because she has the wherewithal and moxie to say things on a grand scale that they would like to say.

 

[sandraladeda]

madonna is not, imo, being "campy"....

 

[narlacat]

She is "cheered on" for her art, music and general "spunk".

Some people grok her art, others do not.

Wind
What's the name of that book that the expression 'grok' comes from??
I can't think of it right now, it may come back though...
It's the only time I've ever heard it, besides you saying it now!!
It was about a guy who got stuck on Earth......came from someowhere else in the galaxy..

To stay on topic- Madonna is 'camp', thats why the gays all love her.

 

[southcitymom]

Wind
What's the name of that book that the expression 'grok' comes from??
I can't think of it right now, it may come back though...
It's the only time I've ever heard it, besides you saying it now!!
It was about a guy who got stuck on Earth......came from someowhere else in the galaxy..

To stay on topic- Madonna is 'camp', thats why the gays all love her.

Stranger in a Strange Land

 

[narlacat]

Thanks SCM!
That's it!
I loved that book, I just couldn't remember the title, been so long since I've read it.

 

[southcitymom]

Thanks SCM!
That's it!
I loved that book, I just couldn't remember the title, been so long since I've read it.

It's been ages since I read it too...really interesting book. Not campy, like Madonna, at all!

 

[narlacat]

No lol, it wasn't

Madonna is huge, I don't think she is a has been yet.
You don't have sell out shows all around the world if you are washed up...
She is getting old though...