Maketoast is no longer with WS

[River]

Holy !

Maketoast is a freak of nature. I had no clue who she/he is. I'm still confused. I thought Nick was a really neat guy, he's behind all of this? I know that someone else bought his site. Is that the jerk?

MakeToast came along right after I pissed off Maxi and she left. Since I rarely had time to post- let alone run this place- I'm just very pissed off.

 

[Tricia]

Holy !

Maketoast is a freak of nature. I had no clue who she/he is. I'm still confused. I thought Nick was a really neat guy, he's behind all of this? I know that someone else bought his site. Is that the jerk?

MakeToast came along right after I pissed off Maxi and she left. Since I rarely had time to post- let alone run this place- I'm just very pissed off.

River I have no idea if Nick is behind all of this. Here is what I know now.

In my opinion the real owner of the maketoast site is a 19 year old kid named Brandon Havens.

On one of Brandon's websites back in 2002 he listed working on the "Maketoast" site as one of his credits. The maketoast site owned by Nick. That "credit" shortly disappeared after we found it. Brandon and Nick do know each other. Here is the site that I am talking about. Trust me the maketoast mention was there. I have a screen shot of it somewhere I believe. http://www.mcps.org/auburn/author/Author.html


Why were we looking? Because on Forums for Justice a poster named dutch was claiming he was in Salt Lake City helping the family of Elizabeth Smart. Dutch said he was a retired detective from North Carolina who spent his own money to go to Salt Lake to help the Smarts. He posted about his meetings with them and his involvement in the Smart case.

Needless to say it was a total lie. The Smarts were not pleased that someone was claiming to be in their inner circle helping them search for Elizabeth and then posting about it. In addition to impersonating a retired police officer.

Through some great detective work by a poster named VP we found that "dutch" was really a then 17 year old kid named Brandon Havens. Brandon had given someone his number and we called it. His step-mommy answered and said Brandon was in school.

Brandon wrote me an email admitting his lies. Interestingly it was very similar to the email the new maketoast sent me admitting he was Richard.

So we know Nick (the original maketoast) and Brandon (the new maketoast) are connected from our research in 2002. I understand Nick claims he doesn't know who owns the maketoast site now. Nick is lying through his teeth because here is the text of the email Brandon sent me explaining how he has communicated with Nick and how he (Brandon) is buying the maketoast site. From Nov. 2002.

From: "Brandon K. Havens" <offthesubject2002@yahoo.com>
To: "Tricia" <tgrif@xmission.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 9:29 AM
Subject: Re: maketoast


> Tricia,
> Hey, sorry for the delay. I had a football game
> last night our last one (Senior Night for our band)
> and I am just now getting around to checking my mail.
> Maketoast. It is a wonderful site. Several months ago
> I talked to Mr. Nick Williams about buying the domain
> and the rest of the site from him. Somewhere along
> that time, "Maketoast.com" was hi-jacked as he put it
> by some of the people who own ebay.com. I didn't know
> this at the time and so I contacted Nick again about
> the domain in which he told me about it being stolen.
> I guess he had forgot to renew the name. As you might
> know, Nick was also the former owner of the
> "Offthesubject.com" domain name which he let me take
> over or registure. So I really wanted this domain so I
> had my Uncle contact Nick and ebay in which ebay has
> decided to sell us the domain name for $300. This I am
> willing to pay. So sence I am in the process of buying
> the "Maketoast.com" domain name, I told Nick that I
> would buy it and I would be willing to give it back to
> him free of charge sence it was his to begin with. He
> said not to worry about it, so I asked him about using
> the contents in the way they were before the site
> closed and he said no problem. So now I am in the
> middle of buying the domain from ebay and I now own
> the other aspects of the site. I am still willing to
> give it back to him sence they took it but he won't
> hear of it so I am planing once I finish buying
> everything, to dedicate a special page to Nick and the
> past history of Maketoast! Again sorry for the delay,
> sometimes I hate being a Senior, what to do? lol.
> Ok. If you think of something else, feel free to let
> me know.
> Best,
> -Brandon-


Fast forward to this mess. We have "maketoast" admitting to me he was Richard. I had accused the new maketoast of being Brandon. The same Brandon that posed as dutch on FFJ in the summer of 2002. Which he denied. But since Brandon is not the sharpest knife in the drawer it was easy to prove the new maketoast was Brandon. The new Maketoast tried to sell some NASCAR items on WS. The name he gave to address the money to?

BRANDON..Yes indeed. He gave his name as Brandon and then a P.O. Box listed in the same city where we called Brandon Haven's step-mommy in 2002.

The same Brandon that listed work on the original Maketoast site as one of his credits on one of his websites.

To review quickly.

Brandon posed as a retired police officer to try and insert himself in the Smart case. He admitted he was guilty of this in an email in 2002.

This same Brandon did work for the old Maketoast site owned by Nick and communicated directly with Nick concerning the purchase of the maketoast site. Even offering to let Nick have it back if he wanted. For Nick to claim he doesn't know who owns it is such a lie I am speechless.

The "new" maketoast wrote a really stupid email to me, using an alias, saying a petition was being drawn up to have me removed as the owner of WS.

The "new" maketoast admitted he wrote the petition email yet denied being Brandon.

The "new" maketoast gave his name as Brandon to people purchasing NASCAR items from him. Also gave a P.O. Box in the same town in which Brandon Havens was from.

The original maketoast, Nick, claims not to know the new maketoast. Yet the new maketoast, Brandon, did work for his site a few years ago.

The questions are many.

Why did Brandon try and buy up ACandyRose's site?

Why did Brandon, posing as someone who followed the JBR case and just now wanted to get involved, jump into WS three days after my first attempt at ownership failed.

Why did Brandon suck up to River and take all the work load off of her?

What was he trying to accomplish?

Why did Brandon write that really dumb email to me? Why did he want me gone as the owner of WS?

Why on Brandon's site www.maketoast.com is the second most prolific poster Susan Bennett?

Why does the original owner of maketoast deny that he knows the new owner when in fact they have worked together before?

By the way in addition to the hat maketoast Brandon uses Sky Justice.

Brandon aka maketoast had IP's from not only his home state but from Atlanta and Texas. I doubt if he traveled to those areas. I am guessing he let others use his hat.

The only thing Brandon was allowed to do other than post was to delete threads and posts. He had no other privileges.

All of this stinks. As does everything in the Ramsey case.

I am still investigating and will continue to make public everything I find.

If anyone has any more information please PM me or email me at tgrif@xmission.com

Thanks
Tricia

 

[WolfmarsGirl]

Tricia,

Is it possible that this is all some kind of an elaborate prank by one or more kids (Richard, Brandon, etc...)?

Maybe the original maketoast had marginal interest in the JBR case but was far more interested in poking fun at those of us who took this case, and our respective sleuthing, far more seriously than he did?

Could it have started out 'for real,' and turned into a joke for him?

I think all of these kids are probably, in reality, just one guy. I think he (they?) is (are?) harmless.

The only thing that bugs me is the email you posted from 'Brandon.' He seems to go to great lengths to prove he is just a young school boy. What's up with that?

And 'sence' is a little too close to 'hence,' lol. What the heck is 'sence?'

 

[Tricia]

Tricia,

Is it possible that this is all some kind of an elaborate prank by one or more kids (Richard, Brandon, etc...)?

Maybe the original maketoast had marginal interest in the JBR case but was far more interested in poking fun at those of us who took this case, and our respective sleuthing, far more seriously than he did?

Could it have started out 'for real,' and turned into a joke for him?

I think all of these kids are probably, in reality, just one guy. I think he (they?) is (are?) harmless.

The only thing that bugs me is the email you posted from 'Brandon.' He seems to go to great lengths to prove he is just a young school boy. What's up with that?

And 'sence' is a little too close to 'hence,' lol. What the heck is 'sence?'

I am in contact with the original as we speak. He is assuring me he has had nothing to do wtih this Brandon jerk. He is offering me some interesting information concerning his past contact with him.

So Wolfsmarsgirl I think you are on the right track anyway. I think this Brandon person is a kid who is doing this just to mess with us BUT a couple of things really bother me.

Why did the Maketoast we had at WS use several IP's from Georgia? Those IP's are a good 6 hours drive from his home state which is very close to Patsy's home state by the way.

I just don't know. I am glad that Nick, the original Maketoast, has contacted me to explain what he knows. I really appreciate that.

I'll keep you posted.
Tricia

 

[dshadow]

Is the hat SkyJustice the same real person (Nick) who originally owned the maketoast.com site and moderated here as maketoast?

I'm confused by that.. I'm Nick who originally owned maketoast but I never moderated here as maketoast. The person who now owns maketoast.com (SkyJustice) for some reason continued to use my 'maketoast' hat, thus tricking at least a few people into thinking he/she was the original. This newfangled internet contraption can be a silly thing sometimes.

 

[dshadow]

Yes! More of this silly internet thing!

The individual who is generally referred to as the "new" maketoast, has also made use of my 'dshadow' hat in the past. Be assured, I'm the "original" maketoast, RNW, dshadow@mindspring.com, the friendly guy with a rock band. :dance:

I logged into my user control panel at earthlink/mindspring the other day and I was delighted to find out that my dshadow@mindspring.com e-mail address turns 9-years-old this December. That would explain the 250 SPAM e-mails I get every single day... :doh:

I'm in the mood for smilies! :crazy:

 

[Babcat]

Just an idea...

Maybe Brandon's family travels somewhat often. I went on a trip to Tallahassee while my kids were on spring break. While I was there I checked in on websleuths to keep up with any new news on the Hargon case. I don't think I posted anything during that time but only read. But I was using my sister-in-law's computer so if I did post the IP should have indicated that the post came from Florida even though I actually live in Oklahoma. So it is possible the Atlanta IP has an innocent explanation that has nothing to do with the Ramseys, or any friends or aquaintances of their family.

 

[mindys]

Just an idea...

Maybe Brandon's family travels somewhat often. I went on a trip to Tallahassee while my kids were on spring break. While I was there I checked in on websleuths to keep up with any new news on the Hargon case. I don't think I posted anything during that time but only read. But I was using my sister-in-law's computer so if I did post the IP should have indicated that the post came from Florida even though I actually live in Oklahoma. So it is possible the Atlanta IP has an innocent explanation that has nothing to do with the Ramseys, or any friends or aquaintances of their family.

Me too, my in-laws live just a few hours away but in another state, when visiting I log on and probably have posted from there too.

 

[Tricia]

Me too, my in-laws live just a few hours away but in another state, when visiting I log on and probably have posted from there too.

Babcat and Mindys you are both correct. I log on all over the place. One day I logged on from home. 12 hours later I logged on from Mexico.

I Believe it is extremely possible that Brandon traveled. I thought of that of course and he had other IP's as well. Texas being one.

It's just that it was in Georgia. Home to Lin Wood and the Ramseys. Use to be home to the Ramseys anyway.

Here we have someone who has followed me and tried to infiltrate both of my forums with phony stories. Who has IP's in Georgia when he is far away from Georgia. That is the only thing that makes me say, "hmmm."

More than likely Brandon is an obsessed kid who for some reason thinks he has to lie to get his way. But a part of me thinks, "what if it's more than that?"

Sorry don't mean to sound dramatic.

 

[sissi]

I'll play. Toasty......you were never dshadow@access.com? (Access Graphics)

Who are Emily and David?
Who was madcircle?
How about Robert C.W.??
Always wanted to know.....
Gov

 

[Babcat]

I thought he was a teenager in 1997. How could he have worked at Access Graphics? That IS weird though... the whole thing is sort of creepy.

 

[smile22]

maketoast and brandon or whatever the 2 people are he said something in the email to u about ebay taking over the site what does ebay have to do with the maketoast site i really dont know anything about nick maketoast and brandon, but him telling u that ebay wanted the site how does ebay fit into the whole site unless ebayt sells domain names? kinda confuses me and how old is this nick guy?

 

[Misty]

Where did the original MakeToast get all those photos of JBR and the family for that website?

And, didn't MakeToast also use an email address: budrosser@mindspring.com. mindspring is based out of Atlanta, Georgia.

 

[Nehemiah]

This is getting interesting and weirder.

 

[Tricia]

This is getting interesting and weirder.

You got that right. Jeesh.

I do know that at one time when you went to the maketoast domain it lead you to eBay meaning the domain was pointing at eBay for some reason.

 

[RiverRat]

FakeToast was selling items here ala E-Bay style.

RR

 

[LinnieB]

:laugh: :laugh:

FakeToast was selling items here ala E-Bay style.

RR

 

[Babcat]

...but at one time I heard the rumor that Susan Stein (SS... Nazi... :laugh: pretty funny analogy there Tricia. Not sure I'd agree with such characterization since "thems fightin' words"... but it is funny none the less) was indeed posting on Websleuths and other forums. But the hat I was given as the authentic identity of Ms. Stein has not been mentioned here in this thread unless I've missed it.

At the onset of the case weren't there tabloids... or even legit press... that published family photos that were not widely published later? Maybe the Ramseys sought an injunction to halt the publication of certain family photos if they were snapshots taken by actual family members.

Photos are a funny thing when something like this happens. You never think that your family photos can end up on the cover of People magazine when you are just "average" non-celebrity people. I realize that millionaires aren't exactly "average" to most of us... but if they aren't celebrities for other reasons, they normally can feel somewhat safe that nobody is paying out money to view their family. But professional photographs don't belong to the family and many people are naive to that.

I remember first being appalled at the reality of the "copyright extortion scheme" when my oldest daughter was a baby. Absolutely gorgeous photos of her were taken by Olan Mills and I was entitled only to my free 8X10 that came with the promotion. (I'm sure most young first time moms have been caught in the "Olan Mills Trap", as I've come to refer to it.) The 8X10 I was entitled to have as part of my "package" was bland, with basic blue background. If I wanted the fancy ones with halo effect or pretty foliage background etc... I was welcome to have them for about $300.00 dollars, complete!! But since I didn't have $300.00 extra in my wallet, (most average moms don't) then they would stay safely with Olan Mills... who owned them. I was totally stunned (naivete' to the max) that someone ELSE could claim ownership of photos that were clearly MY CHILD! . How dare they??!! :furious: My reasoning was: What are they ever going to gain by having them? What good are these photos (of a child they don't even know) to them? They've already paid out the cost of film, developing, special effects, and photographer salary. They won't recover that from anyone else, and if I can't afford their price why wouldn't they just cut me a deal I could afford? At least they would recover most of their expenses, (most likely all of their expenses and then some) but they just wouldn't make the incredibly inflated profit they wanted. But Olan Mills do not haggle (or they didn't then)... the pricks!... :razz: (pardon my bluntness) even though they still would retain the negatives and could reproduce the photos anytime they wanted... though I couldn't imagine then, what event would ever make them want to do that.

I can imagine that high photo prices didn't matter to the Ramseys because they could afford it. They probably bought what they wanted and didn't give it a second thought. But when the family became the focus of a high profile crime, the ownership of those negatives became money in the bank for any photographer that photographed Jon Benet. And there wasn't a thing they could do about it.

But snapshots of Jon Benet taken by the family themselves, or by friends, are the property of the owner of the camera. If someone obtained copies of those, they had to do it in a fashion that lacked scruples, and probably was illegal, depending on the camera owner. I believe the law requires consent from all identifiable people in the photographs in order to publish non-copyrighted photos in a public forum. But snapshots of Jon Benet (non professional photos) did appear in magazines early in the case without consent. And most likely the publication of those was halted as soon as it was discovered by the family. But the cat was out of the bag and anyone who got their hands on them could have scanned them right on to a website without much worry at that time that there would be prosecution or harassment. In 1997 internet laws were almost non existant and those in place were vague.

If Nick or Brandon somehow acquired those photos from a source it could explain how so many "rare" family pictures fell into their possession and they would not have to have any connection to the actual family, or even know them at all. It isn't convincing proof that they had any inside info that others did not have... just savy and the luck to seize an opportunity.

Atlanta is a big city... not to mention that Georgia is a big state. Neither John Ramsey nor Patsy Ramsey were originally from Atlanta. I think their actual circle of family members and good friends in Atlanta was much more limited than it would have been if they'd been raised there, with all extended family also being there. I'd lean more toward an unscrupulous employee of a local photo developer, than an actual family member or friend. But even that is far fetched. How would someone have known to hold on to duplicate prints of everyday family photos of people they don't know without any prior knowledge that this child would be the victim of a high profile crime? Even Little Miss Colorado (or whatever the title was) is unlikely to net you much money from interested tabloids.

 

[becca]

Babcat,
All professional photographers aren't like that.... I've been doing this for many years and I don't call what I do a scheme. Yes my photographs are copyrighted and I retain ownership of that. In order to use those same photographs in a public display, advertising or even on the wall of my studio I have to have a signed consent form. Can I use them with out a consent form not legally. Do some photographers do it , I'm sure they do. Will I ever ? Not a chance.
Sorry for butting in here but I had to stand up for those of us in the photography business that have some ethics.

 

[dshadow]

I'll play. Toasty......you were never dshadow@access.com? (Access Graphics)

Who are Emily and David?
Who was madcircle?
How about Robert C.W.??
Always wanted to know.....
Gov

Holy cow you're govski, I remember chatting with you a long time ago in the jbr chat room on AOL circa 1997. Who else was there back then? Maizie5, Chowoman, WhodunitCO, jackeeh, karlyrie, that's about all I can remember right now.

But no the only dshadow address I've had is the MindSpring one.. I did go by madcircle once but that was back in 1994-95. Where in the world did you find that name? I'm not sure about Emily and David, or Robert C.W., even though both of those sound vaguely familiar.