Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #1

[Waddles]

We may very well be talking about more than 2 passengers, we'll know soon

 

[Waddles]

I promise, there are FAR more than two things contradicting here.
Trying to get actual facts in this is near impossible. :scared:
It's entirely possible that the fake passports have nothing to do with it.
It is apparently quite common to fly with fake passports over there.

I am going to bed, I will just have to check this when I wake up in 4 hours. :banghead:

good night

 

[zwiebel]

OK, so two things seem to be in contradiction. One, the leaked reports that the plane did not go down from an explosion. And two, reports indicating that there were possibly two impostors/terrorists aboard.

So how would two passengers bring down a plane without a bomb? Maybe by entering the cockpit and taking over the controls?

Yes, and by disabling the pilots. But I thought there was a locked cockpit policy since 9/11 ?

 

[Derryn Hunch]

If they were turning back, wouldn't the pilot be communicating with air traffic control, and discussing the problems? This seems so very odd. Mumbling and static---that is very troublesome.

Would make a whole lot of common sense wouldn't it!?

Will be interesting to see where the aircraft was when it supposedly turned around, which I doubt is true... but casting the doubt aside for a moment to play this out as factual - The aircraft it seems would have been closer to HCM International Airport in Southern Vietnam at this point that is being assumed as position in the flight... it would likely have been a waypoint set by the crew in the FMC for the profile and flight plan that was to be flown.

That would make sense as it is an ideal "alternate" airport with a runway that is 777 capable (vietnam airlines operate 777's) etc etc...

If the doubtful info of a turnaround is true, then given the decision by the crew to attempt a return to KLA rather than the conservative of HCM, then it would indicate that there was a lack of urgency or understanding of the seriousness of the problem that was developing.

Again, all speculation and based of second hand info... but if they did indeed decide a KLA return was a safe choice in the situation they had, then it obviously was very very dynamic and rapidly developed into a catastrophic conclusion.

 

[Little Jedi]

'Signals from the Malaysia Airlines plane that has been missing for more than 24 hours has turned back on the Radar, Malaysian officials have said.'

Could this be the Black Box signal ?

http://tinyurl.com/oqfoqmj

 

[Derryn Hunch]

Yes, and by disabling the pilots. But I thought there was a locked cockpit policy since 9/11 ?

US Airlines implement that - Australian regulations now say that only flight crew assigned to the operation of that flight may enter the cockpit during flight (so even qualified aircrews holding the appropriate ASIC and AVID cards may no longer enter the flight deck unless directly assigned as flight crew to that flight...

Malaysian Airlines have a locked and secure cockpit door - and I am unsure what the regulations are there - but I can tell you that it was just last month I was flying up front *in the cockpit* onboard the 777-200's and 737-800's with Malaysian Airlines...

For what its worth, I do hold the appropriate Aviation Security Identification Card and have been security cleared for secure area and air side access, and I am also a qualified pilot...

 

[MsFacetious]

'Signals from the Malaysia Airlines plane that has been missing for more than 24 hours has turned back on the Radar, Malaysian officials have said.'

Could this be the Black Box signal ?

http://tinyurl.com/oqfoqmj

I don't have a clue if it's related but FYI, there was a plane with the same flight number yesterday.
(The replacement plane was given the same flight number!) :scared:

Many people thought it was the missing plane but it was not.
More information on that here:

https://twitter.com/flightradar24

:bedtime:

 

[katydid23]

I thought you went to sleep. NIGHT NIGHT..lolfftobed:

 

[inkpink]

Hi Derryn

What do you think of the likelihood of the the Plane being accidentally shot down?

Would this fit with how information is coming out and being presented?

Cheers

 

[Little Jedi]

:bedtime:

:floorlaugh: Didn't you say that about 2 hours ago ??

 

[Little Jedi]

Hi Derryn

What do you think of the likelihood of the the Plane being accidentally shot down?

Would this fit with how information is coming out and being presented?

Cheers

Yeah, there's loads of these kinds of rumours 'out there'

Could there be anything in them IYO ?

 

[inkpink]

Yeah, there's loads of these kinds of rumours 'out there'

Could there be anything in them IYO ?

I'm not so much referring to rumours more so the little that seems to be known particularly in this day and age with regards to technology.

It just seems incredibly odd to me and rather 'telling' to my suspicious mind!

 

[Derryn Hunch]

Hi Derryn

What do you think of the likelihood of the the Plane being accidentally shot down?

Would this fit with how information is coming out and being presented?

Cheers

Highly unlikely. If a surface to air missile launch were to occur anywhere within that area it would be identified immediately in detail. There are no countries that have/had any reason to launch any missile that would have been capable of accurately hitting an airliner at that altitude.

Shoulder launched SAM's that would likely be in grasp of a potential terrorist on the ground are simply not capable of anything near the altitude or accuracy that this would require (hitting an airliner from the ground, at night at 37,000ft doing .83 Mach is harder than u think)

North Korea not even on the same map... the only wildcard wold be a TWA800 scenario with a friendly fire from an allied warship - but there is ABSOLOUTEY ZERO evidence or suggestion of that even being a scenario here... so ... short verion - NO

 

[katydid23]

http://www.azcentral.com/news/natio...a-missing-jetliner-clues-possible-causes.html

— Hijacking. A traditional hijacking seems unlikely given that a plane’s captors typically land at an airport and have some type of demand. But a 9/11-like hijacking is possible, with terrorists forcing the plane into the ocean.

— Pilot suicide. There were two large jet crashes in the late 1990s that investigators suspected were caused by pilots deliberately crashing the planes.

— Accidental shoot-down by some country’s military. In July 1988, the United States Navy missile cruiser USS Vincennes accidently shot down an Iran Air flight, killing all 290 passengers and crew. In September 1983, a Korean Air Lines flight was shot down by a Russian fighter jet.

 

[inkpink]

Highly unlikely. If a surface to air missile launch were to occur anywhere within that area it would be identified immediately in detail. There are no countries that have/had any reason to launch any missile that would have been capable of accurately hitting an airliner at that altitude.

Shoulder launched SAM's that would likely be in grasp of a potential terrorist on the ground are simply not capable of anything near the altitude or accuracy that this would require (hitting an airliner from the ground, at night at 37,000ft doing .83 Mach is harder than u think)

North Korea not even on the same map... the only wildcard wold be a TWA800 scenario with a friendly fire from an allied warship - but there is ABSOLOUTEY ZERO evidence or suggestion of that even being a scenario here... so ... short verion - NO

Thanks for that, Ill have a chat with my mind about it's cynical nature......

 

[Derryn Hunch]

Read the above "Highly Unlikely" as "Pretty much impossible"

 

[PHB]

Highly unlikely. If a surface to air missile launch were to occur anywhere within that area it would be identified immediately in detail. There are no countries that have/had any reason to launch any missile that would have been capable of accurately hitting an airliner at that altitude.

Shoulder launched SAM's that would likely be in grasp of a potential terrorist on the ground are simply not capable of anything near the altitude or accuracy that this would require (hitting an airliner from the ground, at night at 37,000ft doing .83 Mach is harder than u think)

North Korea not even on the same map... the only wildcard wold be a TWA800 scenario with a friendly fire from an allied warship - but there is ABSOLOUTEY ZERO evidence or suggestion of that even being a scenario here... so ... short verion - NO

Thanks. I was wondering about Vietnam's air defenses. I'm ASSuming they're probably not up to Western standards re: IFF, and, as pointed out earlier, the shoot-down of civilian passenger jets is not unheard-of.

 

[Derryn Hunch]

The scenario being touted by Australian News Sources at the moment is that this was a hijacking that is directly related to the recent stabbing massacre that occured in China.

I haven't actually read the story properly... just skipped over it... but i've linked above... from what I picked up, the target was china and the plot didn't go exactly to plan... flight codeshares and some other little **** ups saw the best laid plans of the alleged bombers start going south when they were codeshared to a MH flight instead of the China Southern aircraft they may have expected... but they still took out just under 200 chinese nationals and in that respect, succeeded.

 

[Little Jedi]

I'm not so much referring to rumours more so the little that seems to be known particularly in this day and age with regards to technology.

It just seems incredibly odd to me and rather 'telling' to my suspicious mind!

It does seem crazy in this day & age doesn't it !

I really can't understand the fact they're saying they don't know where it is after this long.

 

[Derryn Hunch]

Thanks. I was wondering about Vietnam's air defenses. I'm ASSuming they're probably not up to Western standards re: IFF, and, as pointed out earlier, the shoot-down of civilian passenger jets is not unheard-of.

Whilst Vietnam may have sent the US and allied forces home with their tail between their legs some time ago, which is without question a serious achievement of its time - they are suffering from corruption and a lack of any useful military budget that has allowed them to acquire any new or significant weaponry since then. Their operational aircraft are 1.5 - 2 generations behind neighboring countries of the region and are mostly grounded due to lack of spares.

Their army is still a relic of its past - and is not equiped or trained in any effective offensive capability and its navy is well... I wont even bother...

The real players in the area that this aircraft went down in (within range) are Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia. Of those three it is my opinion that only Malaysia and Singapore have the true capability... and that makes no sense in this scenario

The other counties that most people immediately think of a out of effective range, end of story.