Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #1

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Surely stolen passports are used for all kinds of things? I think the terrorist scenario is definitely worth considering, but I'm just as inclined to think they were travelling for other nefarious purposes and got the unlucky plane. I am very curious why there was no alert to these passports. Presumably the men using them knew how to exploit some weakness in the system.

I read somewhere (can't remember where, could be the pilot forum) that if a passport is reported stolen the ONLY place where it gets tagged is the country that issued it - in other words you couldn't use those passports to get into Italy or Austria but could elsewhere.
 
Vu Trong Khanh ‏@TrongKhanhVu 5m

#MH370 Vietnam search and rescue authorities: floating object is yellow
 
They don't seem to have a freaking clue where this plane is, do they? The FlightRadar24 track definitely showed the plane doing a sharp turn before disappearing. But if the crew decided to turn back, they would surely have had to contact ATC...
 
MsFacetious getting her headlines from this link:

https://twitter.com/WSJAsia/malaysia-airlines-flight/

Actually I'm getting them from Vu Trong Khanh's twitter account. :seeya:

https://twitter.com/TrongKhanhVu

That's why his name is at the top of each tweet, they are from him.
He is the only one that is really tweeting anything useful right now.

I was under the impression that his name being on the tweet I post here was enough.
In my experience we have to post the name of the twitter account it came from.
I've never been told we have to post the link to that account with every tweet. :twocents:
 
There is an interpol data base that lists millions of stolen passports...trying to find the link, but it seems that Malaysia dropped the ball and hadn't checked them (read that through google news IIRC)

http://www.interpol.int/INTERPOL-expertise/Databases

Mmm but looking at that, it suggests that it's down to the authorities to check if they think a passport is suspect - it's not connected in such a way that it flags up details. So if the airport staff had no reason to think it was a suspect passport, they had no reason to check...
 
Is it possible that the plane just plummeted into the sea as a whole and there wouldn't be much debris and the plane would remain mostly in tact just sunken? Just curious.

Anything is possible right now.. because again, we haven't seen anything conclusive of the wreckage... so no one can make any kind of valid statement that would reflect such knowledge...

The best answer I can provide for this I guess would be a brief explanation of V-Speeds and airframe structural limitations...

I'm not in any way qualified on the 777-200 aircraft type we're discussing here, so assume these speeds are estimations and have many variables depending on configuration of the aircraft, altitude and a whole host of other things (could go on for pages i think!)

V speeds are critical airspeeds of an aircraft's performance envelope.

They include these critical maximums that are relative to this question (There are more):

V4 Steady initial climb speed. The all engines operating take-off climb speed used to the point where acceleration to flap retraction speed is initiated. Should be attained by a gross height of 400 feet.

VA Design maneuvering speed. This is the speed above which it is unwise to make full application of any single flight control (or "pull to the stops") as it may generate a force greater than the aircraft's structural limitations.


VB Design speed for maximum gust intensity.

VC Design cruise speed, used to show compliance with gust intensity loading.

VFC Maximum speed for stability characteristics.

VH Maximum speed in level flight at maximum continuous power.


VMO Maximum operating limit speed.

VNE Never exceed speed.

VNO Maximum structural cruising speed or maximum speed for normal operations.

Whilst all of these have their relevance depending on the circumstances (Navigating through turbulence and considerations of altitude and air density), Vref is the one that is critical here.

Vref is again, calculated with many variables that will influence the final actual Vref speed. Factors such as configuration, Flight Level, Engine type fitted and external stores to name a few...

Basically speaking, Vref is the airspeed at which the design limitations of the airframe are reached and there is a high likely hood of structural damage to the airframe and control surfaces occurring. Put simply, that's not something you want to do!

For the purposes of this question, lets assume the aircraft did not have an explosive decompression occur at altitude (by whatever cause) and the aircraft made the decent "intact".

The aircraft would very quickly approach supersonic speeds. The cruise speed is around .85 Mach (again rough figure) and it only needs another .15 Mach (lets call it say 90knts) before its pushing that. Add to that an uncontrolled steep dive attitude, engines that are still providing thrust and the thinner air at the higher altitude in the early part of the dive and by the time the aircraft is coming through 10,000ft - its likely that serious structural damage has already occurred... engines would have torn from the wing mounts, tail surfaces (rudder, elevator trims etc) may have torn off as the aircrew fought the dive in full deflection of surfaces (a no no!) and I have serious doubts as to if the wings would still be there too...

They're just not designed for that kind of aerodynamic stress.

The Air France A-330 "pancaked" flat as an essentially intact airframe upon impact because the stall was flat and the aircrews failure to react to the stall correctly. (Won't go into that now)

That "flat" falling would have allowed the aircraft to stay that way for the most part, with the pilots trying to pull the nose up on an aircraft with essentially zero ground speed.

But if the MA 777 descended in a nose down high angle descent from start to finish, then its fair to assume that it would have impacted at over supersonic speeds - and the result could look anything from the pics that are being posted here now, and anything in between, depending on the terrain on which it impaced (water, swamp, hard land).

Again, variable, but very very roughly speaking, the Vref of a 777-200 from what I can gather is about .89 Mach...
 
Actually I'm getting them from Vu Trong Khanh's twitter account. :seeya:

https://twitter.com/TrongKhanhVu

That's why his name is at the top of each tweet, they are from him.
He is the only one that is really tweeting anything useful right now.

I was under the impression that his name being on the tweet I post here was enough.
In my experience we have to post the name of the twitter account it came from.
I've never been told we have to post the link to that account with every tweet. :twocents:

Yes you are reporting Trong Khanh Vu..........but you got that from the wsj twitter lol

https://twitter.com/WSJAsia/malaysia-airlines-flight/


https://twitter.com/TrongKhanhVu
 
From the Mirror, not the best but now Chinese media, BBC Asia and various sources reporting it

Investigators have made contact with a missing Chinese passenger's mobile phone, state media reports.

Chinese television stations say that a call made by family members DID connect to a mobile number but then cut out.

It is now hoped officials can use the mobile phone signal of passengers to locate the missing plane.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-live-3219331#ixzz2vSJLvPLV
 
"The poster, whose profile information says he is a banker working for China Minsheng Bank in Beijing, wrote that he took the snaps from his window at a height of 11,000 metres, at about 6.45am on Sunday."

Is it just me or is it rather disappointing that it takes a banker on a flight to possibly find the debris from the crash when they have aircraft, submarines, and ships, as well as recorders to locate this plane??


Looks to me like some of the photos that we saw after the Indonesian Tsunami taken from a fairly low flying aircraft. seems to be too much brown and green in the photo to have been taken over the ocean, I find it improbable that the picture was taken from a commercial passenger plane on a routine flight. JMO
 
I haven't caught up so don't know if it's been posted already, but BBC Radio correspondent from the hotel where familes are, just said it is thought 'the plane may have been in the process of turning back'.

A LOT of beeping from the street where he was broadcasting, and he was cut off, but he also said;

Two passengers using stolen passports booked their flights at the same time, in the same place and were travelling on to Amsterdam so did not need visas at boarding.

Families are aware of all the rumors and are really suffering, realizing they may have to wait a very, very long time to know what happened.

Intelligence services are on the case, investigating entire passenger list.

*My note: It seems to me intelligence is making fast headway, and the combination of circumstances; stolen passports, boarding together, flight to Amsterdam so no visa needed at boarding, but passports would likely be flagged at destination as stolen.....that just reeks to me of a planned suicide bombing, where the terrorists never intended to reach their destination.
 
If there was an explosion I find it hard to believe no one saw it. When TWA Flight 800 exploded at least three airplanes contacted ATC right away to state they'd seen an explosion. There seems to be a lot of planes in that area.

Not to mention all the boats.
 
I read somewhere (can't remember where, could be the pilot forum) that if a passport is reported stolen the ONLY place where it gets tagged is the country that issued it - in other words you couldn't use those passports to get into Italy or Austria but could elsewhere.

Yes, this is what I think. They didn't intend to ever reach their final destinations - or at least, not the one stated on their tickets.....:(
 
From the Mirror, not the best but now Chinese media, BBC Asia and various sources reporting it

Investigators have made contact with a missing Chinese passenger's mobile phone, state media reports.

Chinese television stations say that a call made by family members DID connect to a mobile number but then cut out.

It is now hoped officials can use the mobile phone signal of passengers to locate the missing plane.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-live-3219331#ixzz2vSJLvPLV

I've been following this story for few hours now & finally it is showing up on MSM !!

Here's another link:

http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_...ight-MH370-makes-contact-with-his-phone-1046/

Other than the obvious ( forgot or lost phone before flight ) HOW ??

Surely it can be tracked.
 
Yes you are reporting Trong Khanh Vu..........but you got that from the wsj twitter lol

https://twitter.com/WSJAsia/malaysia-airlines-flight/


https://twitter.com/TrongKhanhVu

Not that it matters, :waitasec: but no I didn't.
I was following the hashtag: #MH370 (along with others.)

https://twitter.com/search?q=#MH370&src=hash&f=realtime

By doing that I found both Jason, Vu and Newley... that's why the tweets I posted have that hashtag.
I saved their twitters and have been keeping an eye on them.
When they started posting relevant things, I started sharing them here. :seeya:

https://twitter.com/TrongKhanhVu

https://twitter.com/ByJasonNg

https://twitter.com/newley
 
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