Intermezzo
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2008
- Messages
- 10,623
- Reaction score
- 1,679
it's time to go make some very strong wake up :coffeecup:
Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #14
- Thread starter gregjrichards
- Start date
- Status
1&2&3
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2011
- Messages
- 4,735
- Reaction score
- 7,906
Following up with the new comments on the fuel. I had raised that question prior as felt it was a key piece of info needed. The answer was that no one really knew - enough to get to Beijing with a little extra. What kind of answer is that in this type of situation??
Thought it was another thing Malaysia was either lack on record keeping or another secretive piece of info they were keeping! So two weeks later the discussion is maybe the plane had a full tank which indicates the plans were to go further than the flight log said. It truly feels we get the "real information" every 4-5 days!! Why or what is Malaysia hiding?
I must have missed any discussion on this, but why can't submarines go down looking for the plane?
Thought it was another thing Malaysia was either lack on record keeping or another secretive piece of info they were keeping! So two weeks later the discussion is maybe the plane had a full tank which indicates the plans were to go further than the flight log said. It truly feels we get the "real information" every 4-5 days!! Why or what is Malaysia hiding?
I must have missed any discussion on this, but why can't submarines go down looking for the plane?
Good morning! Yes, very wise not to get too carried away with suspects.
To me, this incident feels 75% likely to be intentional, 25% some odd accident.
There's no solid evidence yet to implicate the pilots, Iranian stolen passport holders, Uighur passengers, other passengers, or a combination of any.
As for the pilot's mysterious phone call, not only could it have been a mistress, but the original article mentioned another possibility:
If so, perhaps it was a suspicious call to launch a violent action, but it just as easily could have been an innocent call to arrange a peaceful protest or meeting in response to the Anwar verdict.
Elley Mae
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2008
- Messages
- 22,130
- Reaction score
- 47,274
On Sunday, the Malaysian government denied recent U.S. media reports that the flight was pre-programmed to turn around before it vanished from radar. Those reports, citing unnamed U.S. officials, said the plane’s last transmission made through its ACARS system at 1:07 a.m. indicated the aircraft had already been pre-programmed to make a U-turn, and had cast suspicion on the two pilots.
This was not true, Malaysia’s Ministry of Transport said in a statement. “The last ACARS transmission, sent at 1:07 a.m., showed nothing unusual,” it said. “The 1:07 transmission showed a normal routing all the way to Beijing.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...b92692-b258-11e3-95e8-39bef8e9a48b_story.html
If debris from the airliner is found, complex and uncertain mathematical modeling will have to be employed to track back and find out where the plane might have come down, and naval vessels equipped with sonar technology will have to sweep the area, listening for beeps from the black box.
Then, it will be a case of searching the deep ocean floor, roughly two miles beneath the surface, with undersea drones to look for the main wreckage.
This was not true, Malaysia’s Ministry of Transport said in a statement. “The last ACARS transmission, sent at 1:07 a.m., showed nothing unusual,” it said. “The 1:07 transmission showed a normal routing all the way to Beijing.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...b92692-b258-11e3-95e8-39bef8e9a48b_story.html
If debris from the airliner is found, complex and uncertain mathematical modeling will have to be employed to track back and find out where the plane might have come down, and naval vessels equipped with sonar technology will have to sweep the area, listening for beeps from the black box.
Then, it will be a case of searching the deep ocean floor, roughly two miles beneath the surface, with undersea drones to look for the main wreckage.
belimom
Speak the truth even if your voice shakes~M.Kuhn
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2008
- Messages
- 10,571
- Reaction score
- 94
About 20 yrs ago, I took a class and became friends with a woman from Iran. She and her husband fled Iran and settled in our area, with their two young sons. We formed a small study group, and I spent quite a bit of time with her, went to her apartment to study, etc. She was clearly Westernized - wore jeans, didn't cover her head - and was very angry about what was happening in Iran. She talked about attacks and bombs/shooting in the middle of the night - and how she would grab her little brother and put her body over his to protect him. It is something that was still waking her up at night.
She once asked me to proof one of her papers for another class. She had written that her school had been "shot down". The teacher marked through it in red ink and told her the correct phrase is "shut down", assuming it was a mistake of someone learning proper English and confusing two similarly sounding words. I asked her which word she meant - and she described her school being there one day and gone the next. It had indeed been "shot down".
I do not suspect the Iranian passengers, as I believe they were desperately trying to start a new life elsewhere.
Whoever is behind this (if not the pilots) would be more cautious and professional about obtaining passports, etc.
Rbbm.
OT, but I must respond to your wonderful post and imo, poignant line about the teacher marking the word shot in red ink.
I understand now why red ink could make a scary visual statement to those vulnerable.
http://time.com/31960/school-bans-teachers-from-using-red-ink-because-its-too-mean/
Derryn Hunch
New Member
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2013
- Messages
- 317
- Reaction score
- 3
Also jumping in here having possibly missed earlier discussion on this, so not sure if its already been raised.
Everyone is working off the assumption that they took on board a calculated load of fuel that would get them from KL to Bejing with Reserves.
The reality is, fuel calculations are the responsibility of the pilot and as such, he would have had authority to ask for however much fuel he required.
He would have done his weight and balance calculations for the flight long before even walking out to the flightline or on board the aircraft. This would also include his fuel loading calculations, which when combined with the Zero Fuel Weight of the aircraft, must fall in within a range that does not exceed the Maximum Takeoff Weight and Maximum Flying Weight of the aircraft and keeps thee centre of gravity calculations happy as well.
Unless the plane was fully loaded with every seat booked and a compliement of passengers who were taking advantage of every last gram of the 20KG check in weight limit, and carry on weights and limits were being abused as well, I dare say he would have had plenty of room left to bring on the extra fuel if he wanted it... and that jet would have had the range to make it to the other side of the world.
The first anyone would have known about it would be at the end of the month when the people who handle the fuel bills possibly picked up n it
Momoffourboys
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2013
- Messages
- 12,996
- Reaction score
- 24,575
I am so confused and definitely need more coffee. Just re-reading and trying to make some sense of anything.
“The fact that both the transponders and Acars [automated air-ground reporting system] were shut off before the plane changed course is proof that whatever happened there wasn’t the result of technical malfunction,” added Lieutenant-Colonel (reserve) Ramot, a former combat pilot with the Israeli Air Force and commercial pilot for El Al. Lt-Col Ramot flew the Boeing 777-200ER, the same model as the Malaysian Airways MH370 flight that has been missing for almost two weeks, along with 239 passengers and crew members.
http://www.thejc.com/news/world-new...e-pilot-says-malaysia-jet-did-not-malfunction
“The fact that both the transponders and Acars [automated air-ground reporting system] were shut off before the plane changed course is proof that whatever happened there wasn’t the result of technical malfunction,” added Lieutenant-Colonel (reserve) Ramot, a former combat pilot with the Israeli Air Force and commercial pilot for El Al. Lt-Col Ramot flew the Boeing 777-200ER, the same model as the Malaysian Airways MH370 flight that has been missing for almost two weeks, along with 239 passengers and crew members.
http://www.thejc.com/news/world-new...e-pilot-says-malaysia-jet-did-not-malfunction
This almost seems like the work of high tech. pranksters," The Italian Job" type manipulation of traffic lights scene comes to mind.jmo.
"The mystery of MH370 owes much to the abrupt nature of its “disappearance”.
Nearly one hour into its flight, both its automated signalling systems ceased to function and the plane dropped off civilian radar.
The immediate assumption was of a catastrophic event that plunged the plane into the South China Sea before any distress call could be made.
But sketchy satellite and military radar showed that, in fact, the aircraft had veered sharply off course, backtracked across the Malaysian peninsula, and then flown on — possibly for hours — in a northerly or southerly direction."
Read more: http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/588255...fuels-aviation-security-rethink#ixzz2wnFvqEjf
Follow us: @inquirerdotnet on Twitter | inquirerdotnet on Facebook
"The mystery of MH370 owes much to the abrupt nature of its “disappearance”.
Nearly one hour into its flight, both its automated signalling systems ceased to function and the plane dropped off civilian radar.
The immediate assumption was of a catastrophic event that plunged the plane into the South China Sea before any distress call could be made.
But sketchy satellite and military radar showed that, in fact, the aircraft had veered sharply off course, backtracked across the Malaysian peninsula, and then flown on — possibly for hours — in a northerly or southerly direction."
Read more: http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/588255...fuels-aviation-security-rethink#ixzz2wnFvqEjf
Follow us: @inquirerdotnet on Twitter | inquirerdotnet on Facebook
nomoresorrow
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2008
- Messages
- 3,576
- Reaction score
- 262
@ToutCa
Respectfully snipped;
I agree, only I'd even go as far to say that the "incident" is 90% intentional and 10% possibly due to a mechanical/electrical failure (including depressurization).
Despite sounding like a broken record, I'll say it again... unless one can invent an explosion that would take out some but not all communications and power systems and yet still leave the aircraft in a flyable state (for 6-7 hours!), I don't see how this could be attributed to a fire or depressurization.
Now, as far as whose intention it was to redirect this plane... not so clear. If this was a situation of pilot-suicide -- while I understand that only 2/3 of those who complete a suicide actually leave a note -- there would still be some indicators of this, such as those closest to the person stating/recognizing that behavioral changes were present -- while perhaps not recognized for what they were until now.
We have heard nothing (at least not yet) of any indicators, whether spoken or observed, by those closest to either of the pilots (comments such as, "I won't be here long", "It doesn't matter, it will all be over soon", "When I'm gone..." or giving away any of their personal possessions...) which, in my view, would be odd considering that this type of suicide would have required significant planning.
However, with that said, a factor that could change my mind on the pilot-suicide theory is if it came to light that either pilot had significant financial issues and had -- or recently took out -- a substantial life insurance policy. Because the insurance company would not pay the claim if it was determined to be a suicide, in that case, cutting all communications from the cockpit and flying out into the great expanse of the Indian ocean begins to make sense.
Perhaps someone can weigh in on whether or not the Malaysian government, if they had this type of information, would publicly disclose it at this point or hold off until locating the plane? Sorry for the rambling thoughts - like everyone else, I'm just trying to make sense of the nonsensical.
Respectfully snipped;
I agree, only I'd even go as far to say that the "incident" is 90% intentional and 10% possibly due to a mechanical/electrical failure (including depressurization).
Despite sounding like a broken record, I'll say it again... unless one can invent an explosion that would take out some but not all communications and power systems and yet still leave the aircraft in a flyable state (for 6-7 hours!), I don't see how this could be attributed to a fire or depressurization.
Now, as far as whose intention it was to redirect this plane... not so clear. If this was a situation of pilot-suicide -- while I understand that only 2/3 of those who complete a suicide actually leave a note -- there would still be some indicators of this, such as those closest to the person stating/recognizing that behavioral changes were present -- while perhaps not recognized for what they were until now.
We have heard nothing (at least not yet) of any indicators, whether spoken or observed, by those closest to either of the pilots (comments such as, "I won't be here long", "It doesn't matter, it will all be over soon", "When I'm gone..." or giving away any of their personal possessions...) which, in my view, would be odd considering that this type of suicide would have required significant planning.
However, with that said, a factor that could change my mind on the pilot-suicide theory is if it came to light that either pilot had significant financial issues and had -- or recently took out -- a substantial life insurance policy. Because the insurance company would not pay the claim if it was determined to be a suicide, in that case, cutting all communications from the cockpit and flying out into the great expanse of the Indian ocean begins to make sense.
Perhaps someone can weigh in on whether or not the Malaysian government, if they had this type of information, would publicly disclose it at this point or hold off until locating the plane? Sorry for the rambling thoughts - like everyone else, I'm just trying to make sense of the nonsensical.
Momoffourboys
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2013
- Messages
- 12,996
- Reaction score
- 24,575
Good morning and I, completely, agree with the above.
As for the Malaysian gov disclosing the info about any possible motive for suicide...i say zero to none. Especially now. :moo:
This looks promising...
http://www.torontosun.com/2014/03/2...ge-also-shows-possible-malaysian-plane-debris
"Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott said there was "increasing hope" of a breakthrough in the hunt for the plane on the strength of Chinese and Australian satellite images of possible large debris in the southern search area.
The French Foreign Ministry said radar echoes from a satellite put the new debris finding about 2,300 km (1,430 miles) from Perth, without giving a direction or a date.
The debris in the Australian image was about 2,500 km southwest of Perth and the Chinese sighting, captured two days later, was around 120 km (75 miles) "south by west" of that.
"These elements have immediately been passed on to the Malaysian authorities," the ministry said in a statement. "France had decided to mobilise complementary satellite means to continue the search in the identified zone".
http://www.torontosun.com/2014/03/2...ge-also-shows-possible-malaysian-plane-debris
"Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott said there was "increasing hope" of a breakthrough in the hunt for the plane on the strength of Chinese and Australian satellite images of possible large debris in the southern search area.
The French Foreign Ministry said radar echoes from a satellite put the new debris finding about 2,300 km (1,430 miles) from Perth, without giving a direction or a date.
The debris in the Australian image was about 2,500 km southwest of Perth and the Chinese sighting, captured two days later, was around 120 km (75 miles) "south by west" of that.
"These elements have immediately been passed on to the Malaysian authorities," the ministry said in a statement. "France had decided to mobilise complementary satellite means to continue the search in the identified zone".
ilovepierre
One day, the lost will be found
I have never had a pilot say "copy that" to ATC.
I've listened to numerous ATC recordings in the last 2 weeks, and I haven't heard that be said.
Then I read the transcript of the last ATC conversation with MH370 and everything looked pretty typical of an ATC conversation.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
ilovepierre
One day, the lost will be found
The pilot's family left to go their second home. I don't find that odd at all. For all we know, the family left for this second home every time Shah went on a flight.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Bravo
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2011
- Messages
- 20,354
- Reaction score
- 64,576
I do remember you asking about the fuel for some time
"The weather in the southern Indian Ocean is much clearer today than the past couple days, allowing for the full spectrum electronic and visual of search capability," Commander William J. Marks, spokesman for the U.S. 7th Fleet, said in an email."
Read more at: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...lso-shows-possible-plane-debris/1/350832.html
Read more at: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...lso-shows-possible-plane-debris/1/350832.html
There's no evidence so far the pilot took on more than the usual allotment of fuel:
1). Investigators publicly stated the fuel onboard was 16,120 gallons (normal).
2). ACARS data transmission at 1:07am would surely have revealed anomalies (engine thrust too high, other signs of extra weight from too much fuel).
3). Investigators did NOT wait for the end of the month, but have reviewed all service records at the airport and interviewed all who serviced the plane. If extra fuel went onboard, they would have found out long ago.
4). Extra fuel or no, satellite pings show the plane flew continuously no more than 7-8.5 hours before stopping. It didn't need extra fuel to do that.
It didn't fly to the other side of the planet on that March 8 flight.
ElleElle
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2013
- Messages
- 7,497
- Reaction score
- 33
Who declares the amount of commercial goods on a commercial flight? ie: lithium batteries
Perhaps they did not have any cargo on MH370, even though they said to whoever there was?
ilovepierre
One day, the lost will be found
With the amount of fuel that it had (apparently more than what was needed), how far could the plane have actually flown before running out?
ETA: just read the plane had the right amount of fuel.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
ETA: just read the plane had the right amount of fuel.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Roselvr
Ask me how to get your loved one in NamUs
Malaysia is diverting the focus away from their screw up IMO! There were 20 people from one company; yet everyone but the pilot /copilot checks out? I say bull$hit!!!!
Someone held something to one of their heads; or had a bomb. They turned before good night hoping it would get caught; they turned off tracking hoping military would see... Does everyone realize how many people failed the plane that night? Then they got a 4 day lead!
Malaysia knows if the plane turned before "all right good night"... Pretty sure I read it did but am not sure if I linked it in one of the media posts
- Status