Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #21

[PrairieWind]

Makes me wonder if the pilot had mini stroke. Co pilot could have taken over but there are times when a person is having TIA's (mini strokes) that they become confused and irrational. Sad.

I would think that if that happened then the surviving pilot would have gotten some message out. But who knows. Very little seems to make sense in this mystery.

 

[SilkySifaka]

Me neither. It is incredibly selfish if this was a suicide/murder mission.

Why do we always hear about people taking out others along with themselves. Those passengers didn't sign up for anything like this.

I am hoping it turns out to be some sort of decompression incident that knocked everyone out but the fact there was no may-day call really makes it look like it is some kind of purposeful SELFISH mission.

I just hope they find the plane this time. It will be an incredible feat if they have finally located this plane.

If they locate this plane it is just beyond incredible and down to hard work by a real team of people. Inmarsat has to come in for a large portion of accolades to even get the search on the two arcs then further to the southern part of the ocean, then everyone who eliminated, refined or helped in any way to cross out an area.

I still dont see a pilot suicide or hijacking in my heart of hearts. Some bizarre set of malfunctions that started with communications black outs and went from there. But i know i am probably reaching. It is imperative they find the plane though just in case so things can be checked in other 777's

 

[PrairieWind]

If they locate this plane it is just beyond incredible and down to hard work by a real team of people. Inmarsat has to come in for a large portion of accolades to even get the search on the two arcs then further to the southern part of the ocean, then everyone who eliminated, refined or helped in any way to cross out an area.

I still dont see a pilot suicide or hijacking in my heart of hearts. Some bizarre set of malfunctions that started with communications black outs and went from there. But i know i am probably reaching. It is imperative they find the plane though just in case so things can be checked in other 777's

Agreed, if it is some sort of mechanical/electrical failure that caused this, I think its imperative that the plane be found so that the problem could be found and corrected.

 

[Hatfield]

Agreed, if it is some sort of mechanical/electrical failure that caused this, I think its imperative that the plane be found so that the problem could be found and corrected.

Exactly. That in of itself is critical to determine the reason the plane went down. Just in case it is mechanical failure of some kind.

I sure hope Malaysia does not try to keep things secret when things start to be analyzed. It really concerns me that they may try to put an information lock hold on the true reason the plane went down. Nobody can deny that Malaysia has already not been very open with certain information. Especially at first. They are doing better lately.

There is so much money at stake with lawsuits and stuff. It is a very valid concern. I am sure other countries have already begun to be concerned and hopefully they are taking steps to be sure of an honest and open investigation.

The scary part is I dont think any country can force Malaysia to be open with their information. They own the plane and they can probably control a lot of things about the investigation and the information. Just hope they dont hide or lie about anything.

 

[trigger]

The titanic sunk 12,000 feet in oceans floor, and crew took pictures of it. I wonder if they can do that to this plane?

 

[Hatfield]

The titanic sunk 12,000 feet in oceans floor, and crew took pictures of it. I wonder if they can do that to this plane?

Yes, the Torpedo looking device called the "Bluefin 21" has imaging capabilities that is supposed to be able to get down deep enough and take pictures. It also has side-sonar to try to locate the plane.

It does not use a tether and manuevers by itself controlled from the ship. Almost like a mini submarine with noone on board it.

 

[miley]

Seeing how close it may be to Australia, it was only a matter of time before that question was asked...
When Vietnam told Malaysia the plane was missing no one knew where it was, they believed, at first it crashed in the gulf of thailand..who knew where it had flown..north, south, west?
It seems this plane was outside the reach of the military radars of a few nations

I went to look up the Jindalee radar network

It has a range of 3,000KM (how far is the Ping signal from shore? would it fall under Radar2?
It is an over-the-horizon radar network

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4d/JORS.svg/300px-JORS.svg.png

bbm

You're right. It seems the plane was outside almost all radar reach. I'm not sure what to think because the CTBTO’s IMS stations use hi-tech radar of sort and other sophisticated technology that could have detected its activity. They have infrasound stations completely surrounding the Indian Ocean: the Kerguelen islands, Cocos Islands, Shannon, Au and Diego Gracia.
There are seismic and hydroacoustic stations scattered about as well.
here is an interactive map http://www.ctbto.org/map/#mode=ims

According to what I just read, both signals were detected 1,650km northwest of Perth. link

 

[SilkySifaka]

Exactly. That in of itself is critical to determine the reason the plane went down. Just in case it is mechanical failure of some kind.

I sure hope Malaysia does not try to keep things secret when things start to be analyzed. It really concerns me that they may try to put an information lock hold on the true reason the plane went down. Nobody can deny that Malaysia has already not been very open with certain information. Especially at first. They are doing better lately.

There is so much money at stake with lawsuits and stuff. It is a very valid concern. I am sure other countries have already begun to be concerned and hopefully they are taking steps to be sure of an honest and open investigation.

The scary part is I dont think any country can force Malaysia to be open with their information. They own the plane and they can probably control a lot of things about the investigation and the information. Just hope they dont hide or lie about anything.

No one can force them but I don't get the feeling they will hide it. They have given australia the lead in the search since the southern indian ocean and Australia is the one doing the majority of news briefings etc. I mean really what do they have to lose, if its mechanical it could happen anywhere and if its pilots/hijack etc. it would also be something not directly Malaysian. they will be liable anyway in lawsuits imo.

I think Malaysia has done lots better once they got over their ingrained response to keep everything from the media which led to all those pronouncemnts and take backs. Given the way they started, they have come a long way. My skepticism was higher in the beginning but now i see a pattern of more openness as they got their feet under them and developed it into a real team effort

I would trust china a lot less. Then again I doubt we would have had as much access to the investigation as Malaysia has given to other countries.

 

[PrairieWind]

I am assuming that the subsurface search can continue around the clock (if they have enough personnel aboard to operate 24 hrs). So have they been able to reacquire the signal or not? I saw one of the engineers from the company that manufactures the blackboxs and they asked him about the battery life and whether they could last more than 30 days. He didn't sound to optimistic that you could get more than an extra day or so out of them.

 

[Elley Mae]

Wouldn't Honeywell be the ones to get the FDR if it is recovered. Can anyone just turn a switch and start listening/looking at readouts?

 

[Elley Mae]

I am assuming that the subsurface search can continue around the clock (if they have enough personnel aboard to operate 24 hrs). So have they been able to reacquire the signal or not? I saw one of the engineers from the company that manufactures the blackboxs and they asked him about the battery life and whether they could last more than 30 days. He didn't sound to optimistic that you could get more than an extra day or so out of them.

I have seen pictures of the units and they have date stamps, month/year as to when they were last serviced. I wonder if there are logs kept and they know from that that the FDR was coming up to having it's battery replaced. If so it's possible they know it is on the short end of its life versus having just received a fulled charged battery. jmo idk

 

[PrairieWind]

Wouldn't Honeywell be the ones to get the FDR if it is recovered. Can anyone just turn a switch and start listening/looking at readouts?

I have heard on earlier news shows that the NTSB lab in Washington is the most sophisticated for analyzing the recorders. I assume Honeywell has good abilities as well. But since the recorder belongs to MAL, I assume they get to decide where to send it.

 

[trigger]

I have heard on earlier news shows that the NTSB lab in Washington is the most sophisticated for analyzing the recorders. I assume Honeywell has good abilities as well. But since the recorder belongs to MAL, I assume they get to decide where to send it.

Oh good. So I think, imo the NTSB will be a big part in the investigation.

Praying for the families to stay strong.

I cannot wait to watch Anderson Cooper tonight!

 

[Gerontion]

I see the seafloor terrain there as being somewhat akin to a submerged Himalayas. With any luck the aircraft is sitting intact on an underwater mountain top. I suspect (and hope) that we will see "imagery" long before we see the black box sitting on a desk on dry land. Chances are the black box is still inside of a large intact piece of the aircraft (tail). They may have to recover some very large pieces of wreckage to even get at the BB, which would mean months before any part is returned to the surface. But I am cautiously optimistic, as they say. In fact, if these pings are from the aircraft, I would say we are way ahead of the game. I am taking this news as positive and promising.
Any physical evidence, that the pings lead to, would be absolutely, astronomically and immensely HUGE. It would cut in half the mountain of questions that have come up in the meanwhile.
At the same time, I can't wait for pictures at 11pm!!

 

[Snoods]

BBM
I agree.
Air France crashed into the water intact. It went down fast into the ocean.

Though they knew where Air France went down, the partially intact fuselage and flight recorder boxes were not found until 2011 in an ocean depth between 3,800m and 4,000m (12,500ft and 13,100ft) using an autonomous underwater vehicle with sidescan sonar just like the US Navy's Bluefin 21

This article explains pretty well what happens to a plane upon impact with the ocean and takes into consideration the condition of the plane.

The size of the debris field will be one of the first indicators of what happened, aviation experts say. A large, widespread field would signal the plane likely broke apart at a high elevation, perhaps because of a bomb or a massive airframe failure. A smaller field would indicate the plane probably fell intact, breaking up upon impact with the water.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/how-can-jet-disappear-ocean-its-not-hard

 

[PrairieWind]

Oh good. So I think, imo the NTSB will be a big part in the investigation.

Praying for the families to stay strong.

I cannot wait to watch Anderson Cooper tonight!

Well we can hope so. But maybe they give the recorders to NTSB, and they are analyzed and NTSB gives the info to Malaysia and isnt allowed to release it. I don't know how that works. I wish Anderson or Lemon or Quest would get answers to those type of questions rather than some of nonsense they addressed last night. They seem to field an awful lot of ridiculous and repetitive questions from viewers.

Anyone else notice that Don Lemon doesnt seem to care much for Quest? lol

 

[aa9511]

Omigosh y'all do you think the batteries have run out????????? This is so devastating.....I hope they get the signal again!!!!!!!

(listening to Commander Marks who is saying they haven't been able to get the signal again )

I am just thinking....what if it has run out of battery???

 

[aa9511]

Please please please let there be signal again......please please please.

 

[Hatfield]

Even if the battery ran out, they still have a basic idea where the pings were heard and it should be enough to use the "Bluefin 21" Submersible Torpedo looking device to use its side-scan sonar device to try and locate the plane.

It seems they made at least 2 passes from what I heard. It may not be ideal but it should be enough to start searching with Bluefin 21 if they cannot get another signal.

The problem of course is if they start to have trouble locating it with the Bluefin 21 then they may be too quick to chalk it up as a pinging noise not from the black box.

 

[aa9511]

IF the battery has not run out, I have NO DOUBT that Ocean Shield will find it. The question is - has the battery run out??? I am just amazed that one day they can hear it for 2 hours, and the next day nothing. Unfortunately, that sounds to me like the box stopped transmitting the signal. I am trying to stay positive though.......