Malaysia Flight MH17 shot down in Ukraine. 298 aboard. 7/17/2014 - #2

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Ukraine Security Service

He showed a photograph which he said was a BUK-M1 system identified on the streets of Donetsk city - near the crash site - on July 17.

At 2am (local time) on Friday July 18, about 8 hours after the plane came down, in a region of Ukraine near the Russian border, two big trucks each carrying a BUK system - one with a missing missile, were seen heading for Russia.

At 4am on Saturday morning three more such trucks moved over the border into Russia. One had a BUK-M1, one was empty, and the third carried a tracking module that runs the system.

There was a "hint" of information from agents in the field on July 14, three days before the attack, that the launchers had arrived on Ukraine territory from Russia.

"We know for sure the terrorists have the plan to shoot down every military plane, even cargo plane, even helicopter or jet fight(er) in the air over the territory of Donetsk and Lugansk region," Nayda said.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/10288671/MH17-We-have-proof-Russia-knew
 
SouthAussie said:
10288675.jpg

Ukraine Security Service

He showed a photograph which he said was a BUK-M1 system identified on the streets of Donetsk city - near the crash site - on July 17.

At 2am (local time) on Friday July 18, about 8 hours after the plane came down, in a region of Ukraine near the Russian border, two big trucks each carrying a BUK system - one with a missing missile, were seen heading for Russia.

At 4am on Saturday morning three more such trucks moved over the border into Russia. One had a BUK-M1, one was empty, and the third carried a tracking module that runs the system.

There was a "hint" of information from agents in the field on July 14, three days before the attack, that the launchers had arrived on Ukraine territory from Russia.

"We know for sure the terrorists have the plan to shoot down every military plane, even cargo plane, even helicopter or jet fight(er) in the air over the territory of Donetsk and Lugansk region," Nayda said.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/10288671/MH17-We-have-proof-Russia-knew
Click to expand...

Thank you for this, SouthAussie!

These snips made my blood run cold:


"There is no doubt that terrorists knew that they launched a missile against a plane that was higher then 10,000m," he said.

He showed another photograph of the BUK-M1 system en route to the Russian border soon after the plane was shot down.

The photo showed that one missile was missing from the launching pad.

"Russian side told them to put that system outside of Ukraine," he said. "Russians gave an order to terrorists to take from Ukraine all BUK-M1 systems - there were many of them, not one."

(snip)

"Russia is trying to hide its terrorist activity," Nayda said.

"(Ukrainian) rebels cannot operate the very sophisticated and high-technique missile launcher BUK-M1. To operate BUK-M1 you need to have education, military education, and to be well-trained.

:(


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
SnoopyDawgDawg said:
Evening, All.

I've been out and about all day, and I am absolutely appalled at the people who have no clue that this plane crashed much less the circumstances and the aftermath! Oy! Only one person I mentioned it to even knew that there was any kind of hostile activity in the Ukraine!

People need to get their noses out of tweets and texts and "reality" shows and plug into the real world! Knowledge is power, and I fear the level of knowledge of many citizens has slumped to the level of the power of a wet noodle.

Thank goodness for WS and members from all over who are aware, in tune, and care about the world we live in!
Click to expand...


Its mind boggling isnt? This round I knew not even to ask . But there is a post in the Mal 370 thread that i wrote that is close to this post word for word - it was unreal - and yes I was asking people there thouyghts on MAL 370. oh i thought they found it , what a plane vanished? I dont watch the news I dont know what your talking I dont care ugh

However my favorite:

In a 7-11. See guy in line wearing TSA uniform. I thought great would love to see what he thinks. I am not shy, and stupid me assummed (WRONG) that he would know what I was talking about so I just approached and said so what do you think?. Bewildered look. About what? MAL. MAL? Same kind of thought , if I said Malaysia he would know what the heck i was referrinig to . WRONG again!

I was angry but had to be careful cause in this day and age anyone could be packing an AK-47! I was a dash sarcastic , "the jumbo jet that vanished off the face the earth 8 days ago". I dont watch the news.

Driving home (just freaked me out) never forgetr i, in my dialog to myself (!) I am thinking well pardon me for assumming that you all at the office , that happens to be an AIRPORT might have had :some" office talk" about a vanishing jet. Guess I was wrong.

Scary they are all so busy texting about coffee that the world is passing them by and all this is gonna effect their kids --us middle age folks will be long gone when the ramifications of what has tranpired on this planet in the last 4 months.

Clueless..........................................
 
CARIIS said:
Hi Kimi!

That was awesome - I am visual -- I needed to SEE what the heck is going on! Made me angry as heck ----but I thank you now I see how messed up it is for my own eyes

I clicked through from info you gave ---this one was breahtaking thank you again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvyr5yqbjlo&list=UU0spzGOh1LaVSIiHAkjnZuA

ETA: full link to story:

http://m.us.wsj.com/articles/work-c...ons-at-ukraine-crash-site-1405792383?mobile=y
Click to expand...


I followed your youtube link and watched the two videos posted earlier by the same source. This video http://youtu.be/xxvSGXOkz-I was posted on July 17th *warning graphic and not blurred. It appears to be before fireman even arrived. At the end there is a man, you can only see his sleeve, he is wearing fatigues, he has a dozen, undamaged passports. He opens a few and shows the cameraman, two belong to children. Who is this man? Where did he get these? Why are they undamaged? What the heck was he thinking?!!!
 
Yoda said:
I followed your youtube link and watched the two videos posted earlier by the same source. This video http://youtu.be/xxvSGXOkz-I was posted on July 17th *warning graphic and not blurred. It appears to be before fireman even arrived. At the end there is a man, you can only see his sleeve, he is wearing fatigues, he has a dozen, undamaged passports. He opens a few and shows the cameraman, two belong to children. Who is this man? Where did he get these? Why are they undamaged?
What the heck was he thinking?!!!
Click to expand...

RBBM

***A million times THIS***

Yoda, I posted @paulsonne's tweet, but admit I didn't have the strength to watch the video. CARIIS' and your posts have documented the truth of what is REALLY occurring to the victims of #MH17.

IMV, this must be documented, regardless of whether or not every individual is personally strong enough to view it.

I thank those of you who are, from the bottom of my heart, for doing so.

You are their voices. They must be heard!

:furious:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
kimi_SFC said:
:stormingmad:

Dutch Banks Respond to Reports of MH17 Victims' Looted Credit Cards - NBC News.com

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/uk...orts-mh17-victims-looted-credit-cards-n160246

------

I don't dare risk a TO venturing a guess as to who is responsible for this further travesty. This is the definition off adding insult to injury.

Insert unrepeatable curse words *here*

:silenced:

UGH!!!
Click to expand...


It will also be interesting when the use of victims' mobile phones after the tragedy is seen on their accounts. I suspect there will still be some phones that would work, even after such a fall, particularly if they were cushioned in a bag. I think there may be evidence of who was looting what. I'm not sure that the perpetrators have the sophistication and knowledge to understand how their moves are traceable.
 
Sorry, no offense intended. But I think there will be lots of incriminating evidence brought forth in many different ways.
 
WIth the satellite imagery they will be able to determine if they knew it wa a passenger plane or not.

What I have been trying to explain. Again I am visual!

It is related to why I think it was a bunch of idiots with minimal training who messed up .

Its a three component system. As you will see they are reasonably big - therefore sateliite stuff should be able to show if there was one peice of the system at launch location, two pieces, or three pieces,

If all three were there then they knew it was passenger plane. IF two there they could make a mistake.If one same!

There are two ohter parts but ... not important in terms of this idea!

Its like a stero system HA!

Part one:
tel.jpg



A standard Buk battalion consists of a command vehicle, target acquisition radar (TAR), six

Part two:
radar.jpg




part two above target acquisition radar (TAR)
he 9K37 utilises the 9S18 “Tube Arm” or 9S18M1 (which carries the NATO reporting name “Snow Drift”) (Russian: СОЦ 9C18 “Купол”; English: dome) target acquisition radar in combination with the 9S35 or 9S35M1 “Fire Dome” H/I band tracking and engagement radar which is mounted on each TELAR. The Snow Drift target acquisition radar has a maximum detection range of 85 km (53 miles) and can detect an aircraft flying at 100 m (330 ft) from 35 km (22 mi) away and even lower flying targets at ranges of around 10–20 km (6-12 mi).



Part three:


command.jpg





Command Vehicle Basically number 2 and 3 of the set : This thing can connect to basically like air traffic control radar, ( much more sopshisticated radar off site) which would show, MAL 0017, 33000 feet -- just like a radar in air traffic control tower . SO with the set they would KNOW who was above them would they have specific info indicating it is a passenger plane.

the basic stuff has basically like "close" baby radar (could not think of another phrase!!) It can like say yea there is some plane up there fire if ya want!! BUt they do not have to do anything but push the buttom, casue the missle just chases heat. Fire and watch for the boom.

If there are more than two heat sources its, pardon pun, hit one or the other but its kinda like the missles choice if that makes sense. Just depends on which heat source it "grabs" and kaboom.

It also does not hit its target. It blows up when it gets close and the debris from that explosion is what destroys the target. There not that smart --- they get closeby and explode they do not strike!

The collection!:

300px-Buk-M1-2_air_defence_system_in_2010.jpg


Neat video of inside it (ps: its not new weapon trials took place between 1977 and 1979.)

Inside of it (we all have seen outside!) starts at 00:40 Look at the stuff its old!

http://tanknutdave.com/the-russian-9k37-buk-series-of-self-propelled-sam-systems/



The missles are not sophistacted - like the Israel targeted missles that can totally think. Israels stuff is amazing, just amazing! prob better than ours!

lots of folks have em:

  • 23px-Flag_of_Azerbaijan.svg.png
    Azerbaijan[SUP][54][/SUP]
  • 23px-Flag_of_Bulgaria.svg.png
    Bulgaria Buk M2 4 Devisions based in Plovdiv for AirDefence
  • 23px-Flag_of_Belarus.svg.png
    Belarus – 12 batteries[SUP][55][/SUP]
  • 23px-Flag_of_Egypt.svg.png
    Egypt – Buk-M1 version[SUP][56][/SUP]
  • 23px-Flag_of_Finland.svg.png
    Finland – 3 batteries (18 firing units) – to be replaced[SUP][55][/SUP]
  • 23px-Flag_of_Georgia.svg.png
    Georgia[SUP][57][/SUP]
  • 23px-Flag_of_India.svg.png
    India[SUP][58][/SUP]
  • 23px-Flag_of_North_Korea.svg.png
    North Korea[SUP][59][/SUP]
  • 23px-Flag_of_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China.svg.png
    People's Republic of China[SUP][60][/SUP] – Improved variant as the HQ-16, a navalized VLS system. Joint People's Republic of China/Russian project to upgrade the naval 9K37M1-2 system 'Shtil' (SA-N-12).
  • 23px-Flag_of_Russia.svg.png
    Russia – more than 350 9К37 and 9К317, as of 2012[SUP][61][/SUP] primary builder and constructor. Replacement of complexes 9К37 on the new options 9К317 [SUP][62][/SUP] is planned, that by 2020 will be replaced by 70% complexes or more.[SUP][63][/SUP][SUP][64][/SUP]
  • 23px-Flag_of_Syria.svg.png
    Syria[SUP][65][/SUP][SUP][dead link][/SUP] 8 complexes 9К317Э "Buk-M2E delivered from Russian Federation in 2011 (Stockholm International Peace Research Institute – Arms Transfers Database)Land Forces + 10/8[SUP][66][/SUP] Buk-M2E Air Defence.[SUP][67][/SUP] + 20 Buk-M1-2 [SUP][68][/SUP]
  • 23px-Flag_of_Ukraine.svg.png
    Ukraine [SUP][69][/SUP]
  • 23px-Flag_of_Vietnam.svg.png
    Vietnam - 06 Buk-M2E system (on order)[SUP][when?][/SUP][SUP][citation needed][/SUP]
  • 23px-Flag_of_Venezuela.svg.png
    Venezuela – Buk-M2EK Received[SUP][74][/SUP] (20 ordered).[SUP][75][/SUP]
Former operators

23px-Flag_of_the_Soviet_Union.svg.png
Soviet Unio
 
My DH is European by birth. He's now an American. He hates our news. He says it doesn't tell anyone anything and allows for the (I will not use his words) "turning the blind eye" of the American people.

Our news does keep a lot from us, especially in the Midwest. I feel that it is my (personal) responsibility to know the facts as much as I can find them and I try not to rely on most MSM to tell it to me. Nearly any information that one seeks is out there if one knows how to look.

This leads me to a day like yesterday when I went to bed so upset I didn't sleep until the sun was coming up and then only briefly. I'm still upset and getting more so, even though I have avoided anything graphic today. A double open air truck that was hauling these poor people to wherever they were taking them was more than enough.

I am not a ghoul or someone looking at these things for enjoyment. I personally need to know what the real story is and I will go to the ends of the interwebz to find them.

DH will get cranky with me when I have ten tabs open (he believes it slows our service down, he may be right, I don't care). I need to know. I completely understand that some people do not and cannot view the images that are available. That is entirely understandable. But believe me my friends, what is being posted here is not even the tip of the iceberg of the horrors that are happening in Ukraine since MH17 went down.

All my prayers yesterday and today are with the families of those lost to this act of terrorism, of murder, and with all the others viewing it and documenting it because people need to know the truth about what is happening in the world.

If you choose to squeeze your eyes shut and don't want to know, I don't blame you. I need to not be surprised that these horrors are taking place because they could happen to any of us, at any time.

ALWAYS MOO
 
I wonder what the locals think about all of this. Most of them speak Russian and I presume that that is how they get their news. Russian news blames the Ukrainian government for downing the plane. What are locals to think? Of course they will believe what they hear on the news. We do too.

I believe that the locals care. (excluding local militants who are much more likely to know what is going on!) How horrendous it must seem to have this disaster in their midst. Things were already bad enough and now...well now there are bodies lying in their fields.

How do we get out of this mess? Propaganda all around. We all look at the news through our personal "lens". ** Sigh. **

I had hoped that the internet would 'liberate' those who had previously had limited access to a broader range of news sources. But now I know how naive I was.

Hugs to all caring individuals, no matter where you reside. Let's feel free to question; to research alternate views.
 
Malaysia Airlines has appealed for the relatives of people killed in the MH17 crash to contact the company, saying efforts have failed to contact many of them.

Airline officials have been working with embassies in 11 countries to trace relatives of the dead as world leaders demand a safe corridor be established in the war-torn area of eastern Ukraine where the bodies remain unrecovered, including those of 80 children.

“The airline together with various foreign embassies have made every effort to establish contact with the next of kin but is still unable to identify many more family members,” the company said in a statement.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/call-us...h17-victims-20140720-zuxgz.html#ixzz37yDPxESr
 
CARIIS said:
Its mind boggling isnt? This round I knew not even to ask . But there is a post in the Mal 370 thread that i wrote that is close to this post word for word - it was unreal - and yes I was asking people there thouyghts on MAL 370. oh i thought they found it , what a plane vanished? I dont watch the news I dont know what your talking I dont care ugh

However my favorite:

In a 7-11. See guy in line wearing TSA uniform. I thought great would love to see what he thinks. I am not shy, and stupid me assummed (WRONG) that he would know what I was talking about so I just approached and said so what do you think?. Bewildered look. About what? MAL. MAL? Same kind of thought , if I said Malaysia he would know what the heck i was referrinig to . WRONG again!

I was angry but had to be careful cause in this day and age anyone could be packing an AK-47! I was a dash sarcastic , "the jumbo jet that vanished off the face the earth 8 days ago". I dont watch the news.

Driving home (just freaked me out) never forgetr i, in my dialog to myself (!) I am thinking well pardon me for assumming that you all at the office , that happens to be an AIRPORT might have had :some" office talk" about a vanishing jet. Guess I was wrong.

Scary they are all so busy texting about coffee that the world is passing them by and all this is gonna effect their kids --us middle age folks will be long gone when the ramifications of what has tranpired on this planet in the last 4 months.

Clueless..........................................
Click to expand...

BBM.

That reminds me of one lame comment I encountered today. When I mentioned Malaysia, that's all this person heard. When I finished explaining about the Ukraine crash, this seemingly otherwise intelligent person replied, "Malaysia! I didn't know we were at war with Malaysia!" SMH
 
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