Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #4

[Shadyren]

I just heard about this story last night, and I am so incredibly heartbroken for sweet Nora and her family :'( I wish them peace, space to heal, and concrete resolutions to this absolute nightmare.

I want to talk about neurology and the shaman (omg), because I have so many unanswered questions (as do we all).

On an almost unrelated note, the shaman situation really freaked me out! I read an article that said that the shaman leader, Mohd Khalid Mohamed, provided shamanic services to another missing persons case in Malaysia back in April (a 29 year old runner named Mohammad Ashraf Hassan). I couldn't find information about whether or not he claimed to have successfully contacted the jinn/genies in that case--I'm very curious as to how that turned out, but the articles that mention both of their names are mostly in Malay.

I don't think that person has been found, unfortunately but I want to see this shaman's track record to be quite honest! Also, does anyone know what the shaman meant when he said:
"She is here now, so we will stay here tonight to see if we can find her then we can know why she went missing"

(quoted in this older article, for example: Shamans, European police join search for Irish girl missing in Malaysia | The Guardian)

Like, did they stay outside in the jungle? Or did they just mean the town? What were they doing between the time they made the statement about Nora being adopted by a genie and the time that her body was found? I'm not necessarily suspicious of them, but the timing and the phrasing of their request to these potential supernatural beings is just too eerie to not dissect.

Note: I am taking the shamans' work seriously and I am open-minded to different cultural and religious interpretations of supernatural encounters. I just don't know how this works--are genies/jinn are thought to regularly abduct and/or return humans.

In Malaysia, though that its a "islamic" country, many would still believe that every places such as tree, wood, soil, or even mountain, will have "guardian" or supernatural creature that dwell on a place that people aren't suppose to been there. People believe that, when you get lost in jungle or walking into unfamiliar trail, that is the time when you get abducted by so-called "djinn" or "orang bunian", another word for "wood fairy" in english.

You will walk endlessly until you get tired. Sometime you will heard random whisper, calling for you name. Sort of delusional effect when you brain don't get enough proper nutrient, and fatigue would piled up walking through all those hellish plants, stone and root.

In this case, there is no such thing as "abducted" by Djinn whatsoever.
The place where Nora was found dead are pretty famous with missing hiker cases, because of how confusing the trail are and its often mixed up with random bushes that grow alongside the trail but usually they or missing hiker can be found by local native in 1 or 2 days max after local begin their SAR. Nora's case would be first that lead to tragic incident.

My assumption is that, Nora was moving around during the time she was missing, hoping she could find a way to get back on her own, though walking inside a thick-rain forest plus with limited view due constant fog (hence the name for the mountain are Gunung Berembun, or Misty Mountain) would hinder her navigation on her way back. That's would explain why dogs wouldn't able to detect any scent at all, due the chemical scent might be diluted with fog, and extreme condition of the forest environment and how she ended up 2.5 km from where she stayed.

IMO.

 

[Looloo]

My son has a biometric fingerprint lunch swipe card at his school in the uk

!! I live in uk too and didn't even know this was available in our schools!! I'm so behind with technology lol !

 

[Officer Dibble]

Heartbreaking news. Dear Nora, Rest in Peace now.

I will be interested to hear further reports.

 

[Angleterre]

I doubt very much she died of starvation, the human body can go much longer without food, yes she would have been weak, maybe weak enough to fall in the river, maybe the water source she was drinking from was bad, or maybe she ate something that wasn't edible, but not from starvation.

They say she’s been deceased for 2-3 days which means no food for 7-8 days and only sips we presume of water , which isn’t filtered water. Technically the body on average can last no longer than around a week in that state plus you add in the temperature and heat and humidity and any medication she may have needed to take . Unless you were at the post mortem then you can’t possibly know .

 

[katydid23]

So, if she died 2 or 3 days ago, near the waterfall, and her body was not hidden-----didnt anyone visit the waterfall in the past 3 days?

 

[Cazb78]

I’m sorry, but I’m just not buying this autopsy. I absolutely trust the parents and extended family when they say Nora would not have gone out alone. There is more to this story and I for one hope that they have a second autopsy back home.

Even if Nora had gone outside alone, why would she only be wearing underwear? Would she not have at least enough understanding to know that she’d need to at least put shoes on? I realise she needs help with dressing etc but really? And where are the few clothes she was wearing now?

Also, many are suggesting she would run and hide from rescuers. I fail to see how when she’d be becoming increasingly weak over days of starvation. She’d likely become gradually delirious. Surely someone would have come across her or at least seen signs of her living in the wild over the days of searching - it’s not likely she would be got far.

As much as I’d like to believe nobody else is involved, I just can’t. Either someone lured her or took her into the jungle and lost her, or she was taken and held, only to be released days before she was found. Too coincidental that she’s found by the waterfall she was so desperate to see, a day after the shaman did his bit. AMOO.

 

[Diamba85]

Hi I'm newish to the case and I was on the Dusan website where I found a map of the resort, where there seems to be a river/stream running entirely along the south of the resort. I assume the area in which Nora wondered into was north of the resort?

Also noticed that just north of the Sora house is a swing and to the north west a play area. Might Nora have been heading to one of those areas and been disoriented by the dark?

 

[MsBetsy]

When you are exhausted, you could curl up on your side and fall asleep with your hands under your head, right?

Yes, but when you are in severe pain, some people tend to tense up and kind of curl up their body.
Like the phrase, "doubled over in pain." I can't even imagine her being able to walk in that much pain. I would think she would fall down, especially with her coordination issues.
From the way they described her body it just sounds like she looked comfortable. Imo

 

[slowpoke]

I’ve been thinking. So, now believing there was no kidnapping, what do we think was in Nora’s head to go out through the window and take off into the jungle?

The fact that she went through the window is puzzling. Why not the door? Why didn’t she put clothes and shoes on before going out? She knew how to dress herself, so why didn’t she?

Pure speculation following:
What if she came downstairs to use the restroom, or just to see her parents.
But, once downstairs didn’t know where anything was, not knowing the layout, and got confused and anxious.
At that point, she really wanted her mom or dad, but maybe that sliding door to the parents’ bedroom was closed all the way, and to Nora it just looked like a wall, so she didn’t know that her mom and dad’s room was behind it.
So now she got fearful and panicked that maybe she was all alone (forgetting about the upstairs, where her siblings were?) and thought they must be outside, because they’re not inside.
She didn’t see or know where the door was, but saw that window that to her looked almost like a glass doorway, so out she went.
Of course her family was not out there, so she started walking, looking for them, and thus she got lost. (And maybe Nora was the one making the “rustling” noises the Dutch tourist reported hearing at night?)
I don’t know why these thoughts came to me. If what actually happened is even somewhat close—-just a tragic error. Poor dear Nora..
MOO, just trying to put the pieces together.

 

[Armchair_Defective]

This is very sad news, that she would have been distressed for so long and she wasn't found in that time, the family must be truly devastated at that.

For me this fits what happened. She was 15 and may have started acting out of character, especially in a holiday environment that she was told was so special ( I'm not blaming the parents here, it's just a tragic culmination of circumstances). No sign of any assault or anyone else present, she wandered, became lost but couldn't understand what she needed to do to become found.
The position she was found in could be one that derived from being in pain. From personal experience, when pain is bad you try every position you can to try an alleviate it and sometimes put your head in your hands and wait for it to pass.

 

[Angleterre]

I’m not sure if this view is evidence-based. I’ve seen quite a few dead bodies now. Most were in a very ordinary position, as though they’d died whilst sleeping or relaxing. I remember one man had a history of cardiac problems, so heart attack was a likely cause of death, but he was lying on his sofa, looking completely relaxed. Are people often found in foetal positions?

I’ve seen 100’s of dead bodies and no I have hardly ever observed them to be in a foetal position, in fact I don’t recall any that come to mind and that’s from both natural causes of death and otherwise (murder etc)

 

[Advocate4]

I wonder, did her family know she had an ulcer? It's very possible they didn't. Just ... I don't think an ulcer can crop up and develop to the point of rupture in the time period since she disappeared. If she already had an ulcer, then it would make more sense that stress, hunger, and water-borne bacteria could lead to a rupture.

 

[Skigh]

I do agree with other posters who mentioned that she would be covered in insect bites,which she probably would have scratched. and could have become infected ,also there are TA reports of others who walked in jungle and had leeches attached to them.
there still is possibility she was kept elsewhere and taken to the forest at a later time.
I just cannot bear to think how confused and frightened Nora must have been.
It must be a living nightmare for her family.
My heart goes out to them.

 

[WiseOwl]

It is not a malaria area, indeed Malaysia is well on the route for being a malaria free zone. If you are stung by the anopheles mosquito which carries malaria, symptoms would take several days to appear. Same with dengue.

According to this article, dengue cases are at an all-time high:

TheStarOnline Saturday 10 Aug 2019:

KUALA LUMPUR: Dengue fever cases in Malaysia reached an all time high, hitting nearly 80, 000 cases and 113 deaths reported from January until Aug 3.
Deputy Health Minister Lee Boon Chye expects the number to hit 150, 000 cases by year end if all out efforts are not taken to keep it under control.

The last highest number of cases recorded was in 2015 which recorded 120, 836 cases with 336 deaths. There were 251 hotspots in nine states and most of the hotspots were flats and apartments. The nine are Selangor, Federal Territories, Johor, Kelantan, Sabah, Penang, Sarawak, Negri Sembilan and Pahang.

Dr Lee said the ministry was using various methods to overcome the dengue outbreak in the country, such as fogging and removing mosquito breeding sites.
The ministry is monitoring the dengue situation continuously and received weekly reports on the number of cases. With each district health office nationwide monitoring the situation, once dengues cases are reported, measures such as fogging are immediately implemented, he said.

“Dengue is increasing in many parts of the world even in Singapore. Cuba eradicated it once but it has re-emerged. Southern China, southern Taiwan and southern Japan also have reported cases. “As air travel becomes common, the virus spreads, ” he said.

Read more at Dengue cases at an all-time high

Nora must surely have been bitten by mosquitos at some time during her 7 days alive in the jungle; i'm surprised there has been no mention of her body being covered in bites.

 

[Chiatos]

- A volunteer believes her body must have been moved as it was left out in the open.
- Local media reported that a forensic team also went back to the area where the body was found to comb for evidence.
- Nora’s parents are also asking questions as to why police may have initially missed her body and if it could have been moved there at a later date.

RIP Nora.

Missing teen’s cause of death revealed

 

[Amonet]

Shout out to Ms. Shirley, when you get a minute - would you please call WS in the US? We have a question, it seems only you can answer. Thanks.

And also a massive Thanks to Ms. Yap and the other hikers she was with on that day for going out there to help with the search for Nora.

Very few people on these type of searches for a missing person will make a find like this, and I'm sure they anticipate it with both hope to help find someone, but also dread of what condition the person might be in if found. But so many wonderful people turned out to help, and even when it was a festival period when they'd much rather be home with their own families. But they turned up to search for a family they didn't know, and a little girl they'd never met.

 

[Angleterre]

Ah well. Sorry for what my country people has done. They're trying to help the official with their own spiritual way, but hey.

Shadyren - I thank you and your country people for their dedication to finding this special young lady and all the ways in which they tried to do so. I’m sure no disrespect is meant and I thank you for your help and input of such great detail in this tragic situation . I’m truly humbled.

 

[dalsglen]

Yes, but when you are in severe pain, some people tend to tense up and kind of curl up their body.
Like the phrase, "doubled over in pain." I can't even imagine her being able to walk in that much pain. I would think she would fall down, especially with her coordination issues.
From the way they described her body it just sounds like she looked comfortable. Imo

When I had pneumonia and a collapsed lung, I knew I was seriously unwell, I couldn't walk and could barely breathe so I just curled up in the fetal position on the floor and gave up. I'm normally a sensible person, but at that point i just couldn't care iyswim.

 

[Blamhappy]

I'm not sure if it is evidence based either, but I think generally people are found in the position they were in when they died, whatever that may be. Imo

So far, I haven’t seen anyone curled up, but I’m not saying it doesn’t happen. So far, everyone I’ve seen has been lying ordinarily or sitting in a chair.

 

[greybluekoala]

I’m sorry, but I’m just not buying this autopsy. I absolutely trust the parents and extended family when they say Nora would not have gone out alone. There is more to this story and I for one hope that they have a second autopsy back home.

Even if Nora had gone outside alone, why would she only be wearing underwear? Would she not have at least enough understanding to know that she’d need to at least put shoes on? I realise she needs help with dressing etc but really? And where are the few clothes she was wearing now?

Also, many are suggesting she would run and hide from rescuers. I fail to see how when she’d be becoming increasingly weak over days of starvation. She’d likely become gradually delirious. Surely someone would have come across her or at least seen signs of her living in the wild over the days of searching - it’s not likely she would be got far.

As much as I’d like to believe nobody else is involved, I just can’t. Either someone lured her or took her into the jungle and lost her, or she was taken and held, only to be released days before she was found. Too coincidental that she’s found by the waterfall she was so desperate to see, a day after the shaman did his bit. AMOO.

Children with sensory issues, not sure of the technical term, might prefer to be in their underwear. Or without clothes. Shyness or not. Nora was reported to have been sleeping in only the underwear.

Someone keeping her then releasing, what was their point? In most cases it would be for deviant purposes but she was untouched. Not even hurt with scratches on her limb or any signs of abuse on the body - no binding marks, no forceful holds on her limbs etc. She was then kept for 7+ days for no reason then released? There was no ransom demand in all those days. If they were afraid after the news coverage/search then decided to let her go after a week, wouldn't it be smarter to transport her away and drop her elsewhere.

Also if she was kept and fed, the PM would show this. When she last ate, what she ate etc. Unfortunately she ended up dying 2-3 days ago because of starvation, probably no digested food found in her belly in the PM.