Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #4

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Right! I’ve read it from the Dutch person in the one Dutch paper. It has been relentlessly repeated here. I have never heard it confirmed that the police arrived at x time and the search began at y time, and that that was 3 hours after they were notified.

It’s unfortunate because the resort owners and the police have all been repeatedly bashed on this forum. They have been accused by posters here of being in a cover up, trying to delay a search from beginning... all due to what seems to be, at this point, an unsubstantiated rumor.
I have copied the translation of the dutch newspaper multiple times, and I have said a couple of times too that I find interesting that this dutch couple's testimony only appears on that article. At this point I don't know what to believe, because the family would've been outrage if the police took more than 3 hours to arrive and start the search. Specially now that we know she was alive for a while. JMO
 
Malaysia collects DNA upon entering and exiting the county, if you are traveling by air.

They maybe awaiting results of DNA collected from her body to determine, if DNA other than Nora's is present.

It takes time. If other DNA is found, I feel sure it would be run thru CODIS. They have the best of resources available.

Jmo

They collect DNA when you enter the country?! Why? That seems so invasive. I wouldn't like that at all.

I thought CODIS was an American database, through the FBI. Do other countries use it too?
 
Right! I’ve read it from the Dutch person in the one Dutch paper. It has been relentlessly repeated here. I have never heard it confirmed that the police arrived at x time and the search began at y time, and that that was 3 hours after they were notified.

It’s unfortunate because the resort owners and the police have all been repeatedly bashed on this forum. They have been accused by posters here of being in a cover up, trying to delay a search from beginning... all due to what seems to be, at this point, an unsubstantiated rumor.


So true!!! I was one of those that questioned the integrity of the investigation. I was real hot they were not focusing on the potential criminal side.

I am truly, sorry. They did know what they were doing !!!

The folks of this community gave everything they had to find her. They worked in horrific , hot humid conditions, walked miles, risk their lives to find her.

We had locals in here last night that me a better understanding. Hopefully, I think I made a few new WS buddies. I have great respect for these folks, and am truly sorry.

Yes, sometimes when the media throws us a bone and that all we have, verified or not we being to chew that bone. Just saying....

JOO
 
Her gastric juice may cause of ulcer form within her intestine system. Assuming she doesn't eat anything when she still missing.

Gastric ulcers on the other hand are usually caused by hypersecretion of gastric juice of humoral or gastrin origin caused by stasis of food in the stomach in contact with the gastric antrum. This stasis may be due to pyloric stenosis from an accompanying duodenal ulcer or to defective gastric tonus and motility.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0002961069902980


Yes, hunger pangs during starvation cause hydrochloric acid to be released in the stomach. Since there is no food in stomach, it acts on the lining of stomach and causes ulcers. Also, starvation is a stress condition which results in further release of acids and other chemicals which cause ulcers.

Based on some limited research I was able to get in today, starvation ulcers can develop after 3 days without food.

How can a stomach ulcer kill? Stomach ulcers are dangerous because they can cause life threatening complications. First, stomach ulcers can bleed. When a stomach ulcer starts bleeding, it often takes long time to notice (because the blood has to be seen on either end of the gastrointestinal track) and it takes a long time to clot and stop bleeding (because of the stomach acid). Thus, the most life threatening complications of an ulcer is a major bleed. The second catastrophic problem that can occur is if the ulcer erodes all the way through the stomach causing a perforation. This can result in a terrible infection inside the abdomen.

I can’t get Nora out of my head… this in addition to being scared and lost… I can’t imagine….

MOO



Resources:
https://ehealthforum.com/health/can-starvation-causes-stomach-ulcer-t507107.html
https://answers.zocdoc.com/details/9774/can-someone-die-from-a-stomach-ulcer
 
I would image they take samples from under the fingernails, etc., to check for DNA as a matter of course. I interpreted the reference to DNA testing as they are sending samples to detetermine if there's foreign DNA there, not that they found foreign DNA and they're testing it.
 
I forgot, to thank you for the Eid al-Adha link., very good read. This is one of my favorite bible stories.

Such a connection with the date.

Jmo
Eid al-adha was on Sunday &
Malaysia collects DNA upon entering and exiting the county, if you are traveling by air.

They maybe awaiting results of DNA collected from her body to determine, if DNA other than Nora's is present.

It takes time. If other DNA is found, I feel sure it would be run thru CODIS. They have the best of resources available.

Jmo
Malaysia collects DNA upon entering and exiting the county, if you are traveling by air.

They maybe awaiting results of DNA collected from her body to determine, if DNA other than Nora's is present.

It takes time. If other DNA is found, I feel sure it would be run thru CODIS. They have the best of resources available.

Jmo
Malaysia doesn’t collect DNA upon entry! They collect biometrics (fingerprints) which are not DNA!
 
Contaminated water or food is certainly worth considering.

The chances of surviving without water for more than a day or two in 33C and 95% humidity is near zero. That will have brought about dehydration and heat stroke on very quickly I would have thought. I suspect that is why she was found near the river. She was unimaginably thirsty and went searching for a water source, and she found it.

Its entirely possible to live beyond 9 days with no food, (weeks even!), but certainly not in a jungle situation with hostile ambient conditions. At some point she may have decided to eat anything in desperation, but in doing so, it was effectively a big gamble on anything she chose to ingest as she had no idea what was poisonous or not.

Whatever exactly took place, this should never have really happened. I doubt anyone will really know why she chose to leave the accomodation by herself:- without knowledge of her family.
 
The parents, from Balham, south west London, are reportedly waiting for the results of DNA and toxicology tests before making a decision - but said no avenue has been "excluded".

Speaking to Irish broadcaster RTE, Mr Morel said that the Quoirins "cannot understand how Nora could leave by herself" because of her disabilities.

And he has urged "caution" over post-mortem results which showed Nora died of intestinal trauma.

Mr Morel said: "We don't want the media to interpret the first result of the autopsy, excluding the criminal hypothesis. It's too early to say that.
Nora Quoirin family 'still think she was taken' amid 'dark unanswered questions'
 
Judging from photos, the window was virtually like a door, she could just step through it.

This! I'm not really sure why people are continually apply their own adult, fully logical, completely rational thought processes to Nora and what they would have done - especially thinking about the door vs window.

Yes I don't think the window was at all difficult. The ledge looked like it was, maybe 4" off the ground? Plus, in an unfamiliar location, a child/toddler or someone of Nora's ability is much more likely to think "Large opening I can see outside light and jungle through" EQUALS "Door or Exit" rather than fumble, walk around try to find an OPAQUE door in a place she had never been. It's very easy to understand that if she came down that spiral staircase, saw light/heard noise, that was the way she went to outside. Also, it's possible she had experienced sliding doors before and that window looked just like one, so she knew it was a way out. It wasn't a high up window. It was large and looked exactly like a possible exit.

Regarding the clothes, I find nothing nefarious in her being naked. The media have reported it as a salacious detail, but in reality, her flimsy underclothes would have been easily caught on branches, leaves, brambles and/or if they got wet, she could have just taken them off. My 5 year old nephew HATES the way wet clothes feel. He'd rather be nakey.

I just really really hope her parents will get over any misplaced guilt they might be feeling. Even if they underestimated her abilities, that's perfectly normal. And if they had absolutely no data points in which Nora did something like this, there is no way on earth they could have known she would have wandered. My heart breaks for them at the loss of precious Nora and all the "What Ifs" they must be grappling with. So sad.
 
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With all due respect, I wasn't replying to any specific poster. Several posters have commented on the presence/absence of obvious blood at the site where NQ's
remains were found.

Since you bring it up, your post quoted below, specifically the last sentence, states that blood " would have been present."

"Graphic

My father-in law died from an intestinal rupture, he wasn’t eating just bits here and there and he had mental health issues and was going through a very stressful time (don’t really wanna talk about his personal stuff). But what I am going to say is the day he died he was acting drunk (no alcohol) tho. He was like stumbling and knocking things over. He then collapsed and lots of blood came out of his mouth, it was like he was being sick blood. I’m just wondering why the hikers didn’t pick up on the amount of blood that would have been present.

Kelumbo, Today at 6:46 AMReport
#580Like+ QuoteReply"
 
Eid al-adha was on Sunday &


Malaysia doesn’t collect DNA upon entry! They collect biometrics (fingerprints) which are not DNA!


You are so right!!

Man, I should have gotten more sleep. Will try to fix.

Thanks.
 


I don't deem it necessary for the public to be given a graphic description of the state that Nora's body was found in. It is only the cause of death that needs to be reported. What about Nora's dignity? It is bad enough that she died the way she did without each and every detail being made public. Just my opinion.
 
I'm not really sure why people are continually apply their own adult, fully logical, completely rational thought processes to Nora and what they would have done - especially thinking about the door vs window.

Yes I don't think the window was at all difficult. The ledge looked like it was, maybe 4" off the ground? Plus, in an unfamiliar location, a child/toddler or someone of Nora's ability is much more likely to think "Large opening I can see outside light and jungle through" EQUALS "Door or Exit" rather than fumble, walk around try to find an OPAQUE door in a place she had never been. It's very easy to understand that if she came down that spiral staircase, saw light/heard noise, that was the way she went to outside. Also, it's possible she had experienced sliding doors before and that window looked just like one, so she knew it was a way out. It wasn't a high up window. It was large and looked exactly like a possible exit.

Regarding the clothes, I find nothing nefarious in her being naked. The media have reported it as a salacious detail, but in reality, her flimsy underclothes would have been easily caught on branches, leaves, brambles and/or if they got wet, she could have just taken them off. My 5 year old nephew HATES the way wet clothes feel. He'd rather be nakey.

I just really really hope her parents will get over any misplaced guilt they might be feeling. Even if they underestimated her abilities, that's perfectly normal. And if they had absolutely no data points in which Nora did something like this, there is no way on earth they could have known she would have wandered. My heart breaks for them at the loss of precious Nora and all the "What Ifs" they must be grappling with. So sad.


It takes along, along, along time and lots of love and therapy. Parents never get over losing a child, never. They learn to get thru the day, then they learn to cope, but never ever forget. We've not suppose to out live our children.

We can be kind and understanding and pray it never happens to us.

I just really really hope her parents will get over any misplaced guilt they might be feeling. Even if they underestimated her abilities, that's perfectly normal. And if they had absolutely no data points in which Nora did something like this, there is no way on earth they could have known she would have wandered. My heart breaks for them at the loss of precious Nora and all the "What Ifs" they must be grappling with. So sad.

Jmo
 
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I don't deem it necessary for the public to be given a graphic description of the state that Nora's body was found in. It is only the cause of death that needs to be reported. What about Nora's dignity? It is bad enough that she died the way she did without each and every detail being made public. Just my opinion.


Exactly, she is a minor. In the US they do not disclose medical information on children, they are protected by confidentiality laws. Adults,too.
Next of kin, must give permission.

Not sure Malaysian laws, I would think they have sought and been granted permission to release certain information.

Will we be privy to all the detail. No, and we should respectful.

Jmho
 
I can’t get Nora out of my head… this in addition to being scared and lost… I can’t imagine….

RSBM

I can't get her parents out of my head. As a mother (of two kids without special needs), I can't imagine the guilt and anguish they must be feeling over ultimately not being able to protect their first-born child. They clearly adored her and provided her with an amazing life, and one totally unexpected event (Nora leaving the house) turned their world completely upside down :(. Life can change in an instance :(. I've had a completely unexpected event happen in the life of one of my children, and it totally could have gone in another (fatal) direction. I thank God frequently that it didn't (the outcome had very little to do with my actual parenting).
 
Regarding the clothes, I find nothing nefarious in her being naked. The media have reported it as a salacious detail, but in reality, her flimsy underclothes would have been easily caught on branches, leaves, brambles and/or if they got wet, she could have just taken them off.

Totally agree. Nora was not a typical 15 year old. She probably did not have an "embarrassed" feeling of nakedness that older kids/teens/adults experience. If her underwear was uncomfortable because they became wet or soiled in some way, she probably just removed them just like a toddler would remove a soiled diaper.
 
I have copied the translation of the dutch newspaper multiple times, and I have said a couple of times too that I find interesting that this dutch couple's testimony only appears on that article. At this point I don't know what to believe, because the family would've been outrage if the police took more than 3 hours to arrive and start the search. Specially now that we know she was alive for a while. JMO

Yeah, I remember you finding that article and mentioning that that newspaper was the only one with the claims. I agree... I think the family would be shouting this from the rooftops.... so I tend to think it wasn’t true. Those first hours were crucial. I hope her parents were out searching and calling for her in the jungle just near the resort that morning.

Maybe the Dutch person is just a case of someone wanting to have their 15 minutes.
 
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