Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #5

[Simply Southern]

Who did this?

At the press conferences. It was repeat missing person, everytime ask by media.
Jmo

 

[Simply Southern]

I copied two sections from your post, to comment about only those points.


Everyone acknowledged that Nora was a special child, with limited mobility and understanding. But she was indeed "lost in the jungle" ...

Imagine the police broke into every village hut to find her, because they accepted that she could never end up in the jungle.


Nora was found some distance from the waterfall, but yes it still is puzzling how she ended up there.

Just a theory ... she walked out by herself after 6AM and tried to find the waterfall. Then someone found her, and helped her to get there.

Who could that helpful person be?

I appreciate your information. The police need to step up and make this I formation,public. That's where the problem is.

No disrespect, but that's what's giving the world a not food feeling. Its not the locals I know they tried, thanks to you and others. They need to share with the world what they did or this won't go away.

Jmo

 

[Lilibet]

The lack of information has been frustrating to say the least. Yes, they searched the river bank, We've waited days for a response as, its been ask at pressers, they would not answer. What day did they search??? Where??? Did they speak to the person?? You know all the stuff that is usually shared.

Every presser, it is repeated ....lost in the jungle, and no public acknowledgement of other possibilities. No reason given for such close mindlessness. They have never acknowledged her disability or limitations. I've watched all the video, thread 4, the photos, it ain't no way I could make this trek and I'm a avid mountain hiker, and magically appear at the waterfall.

The video of the area is the eye opener. Thanks to the locals who provided.

No disrespect intended .... JMHO.

I understand your frustration. We only know what has been reported or heard at possibly edited press conferences. We want more. But it’s not their job to tell us anything IMO.

We follow lots of local U.S. or international cases on WS with very little LE info given. I’m currently following the missing person case of Barbara Thomas who disappeared in the Mojave Desert in California. There was a huge SAR search for her for about 10 days, much longer than she could have survived. The San Bernardino County Sheriff has said very little, except to contradict her husband’s claim that she must have been abducted and to say that they found no evidence of her during their search (clothing, etc). It’s been a frustrated six threads, to say the least, and has been shut down several times for posts violating TOS!
CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #6

My point is that LE in most, if not all, countries doesn’t reveal everything our inquiring minds want to know while they are investigating. To their credit IMO.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Think this backs up what quite a few of us have been saying.
Her feet would have been ripped to shreds,her body badly scratched and bruised, and she also would
have been covered in bites,leeches and goodness knows what else.

This ^^^

I've held off commenting on this thread as I was upset to hear Nora might have been wandering alone for days and, frankly, the thread hasn't made the prettiest reading since. I wanted to know about the condition of her feet and Skigh's comments sums up the reasons why.

Is it possible she got to the waterfall herself and stayed in that area, hiding whenever she heard searchers? I don't know. Perhaps she was near there when she heard her mums voice recording and it was in her mind they'd be visiting the waterfall some time soon, so she stayed there to wait for them.

She hadn't eaten in all that time and she hadn't been assaulted, and I can't work out what sort of abductor would just take a girl and starve her. It's just so weird.

 

[Kubirai]

Think this backs up what quite a few of us have been saying.
Her feet would have been ripped to shreds,her body badly scratched and bruised, and she also would
have been covered in bites,leeches and goodness knows what else.

I wrote down a scenario from my head in a reply to Simply Southern.

Let's imagine that Nora woke up at 6AM and decided to visit the exciting waterfall. She somehow managed to go 1000ft, where her scent stopped. Now imagine that someone found her, and decided to help her out.

Of course, other scenarios in my head are darker, but she ends up deep in the jungle, far beyond where she could have gone by herself.

 

[Vaccine]

Much as these reports make me question my judgement I do find the idea that anyone assisted or abducted Nora as extremely hard to believe. Plausibility is important.I have to question these ideas:
1) A stranger abducted her from her bed. I was not able to carry either of my children after the age of 10. How would anyone get Nora, a 15 year old, down those winding wooden stairs without disturbing anyone and without falling? And why take her - when her younger sister was there too? A much easier prospect for abduction.
2) They spotted she was vulnerable due to her special needs and therefore chose her. Thats some very observant and urgent abductor - she'd only been in the country for less than a day and she might not be as easy a subject for abduction as a toddler. Just because she had special needs it doesn't mean she was malleable and physically docile with strangers.
3) They just happened to be in the house already but bumped into her when she came down the stairs and abducted her from there - how did they get her soundlessly out of the house? Were they burglars or aforementioned abductors who just got lucky? And how likely is it that they had just picked that actual moment when she had made her way downstairs?
And if they bumped into her outside the house - how likely is it that someone with devious or malicious intent just happened to be passing by as she came out of the house?
4) A sibling went with her outside and then left her there. Really? I've stayed with my kids in the jungle and I can tell you right now that none of us - adult or older teenager - had any inclination to go wandering outside in the dark for fun. The jungle is noisy and scary and full of critters.
5) Someone took her to the waterfall or hid her for days without asking for a ransom or harming her in any way. Err why? Thats a lot of bother for no purpose. How many people are motivated to randomly abduct people for no purpose?
6) Its not believable that she was determined and oriented enough to find the waterfall - no one really believes that she went there deliberately do they? I dont think its so surprising that she ended up close to a water source. But isn't it far more likely that she was disoriented and lost for days, hiding and scared and randomly ended up by the waterfall?

Sorry if I sound impatient at all. I've followed the whole thread - till this evening (sometimes its nice to go out!) and its quite unbelievable how many people simple re-state what's been said over and over again, or ask questions that have been answered in detail many times before.

I think there was some discussion on the last thread about a report that there would be criminal charges brought in France. I think this might be a misunderstanding of how the french legal system works. In the US and UK investigations are carried out by the police, and after review of the evidence, charges may be brought and the case taken to be prosecuted in court under a prosecution and defence system before a judge and/or jury. In France, judges carry out criminal investigations instead, in a discovery process that may not end in any charges being brought. So its possible that the reports misrepresented a court investigation.

I am so very sad about this case. As a parent I would hate to think my child suffered such anxiety and fear for so many days, lost and alone and finally dying from starvation and stress when they were so near. Its beyond imagining. Bless her and her poor family.

 

[Lyall0814]

Think this backs up what quite a few of us have been saying.
Her feet would have been ripped to shreds,her body badly scratched and bruised, and she also would
have been covered in bites,leeches and goodness knows what else.

It's a typical UK tabloid article, like the Mirror one linked to earlier today. Neither article gives a name for their source, so it could be someone who really isn't qualified to make the statements they're making. I think articles like these, when sources aren't named, should be viewed with scepticism. Why can't they name their sources?

 

[BrianJohnson]

I think the fact no underwear has been discovered at all would suggest to me she was already naked when she left the house, living in cold miserable south London the extreme heat and humidity of the Malaysian jungle would be quite a culture shock to her, so her being naked would hardly be a shock, it is distasteful the way the tabloids have focused on her being naked, it is a natural state especially in that extreme weather conditions

I have been to over 60 countries right across the globe and nothing prepared me for what i faced when i spent 5 nights in Singapore, I used to buy bottles of water and just pour them over my head so i can well imagine the last thing she cared about was clothes

I can well believe she ended up where she did by herself, the human survival instinct trumps science and medicine, I doubt she was abducted or murdered or placed where she was found

 

[Nadal]

I wrote down a scenario from my head in a reply to Simply Southern.

Let's imagine that Nora woke up at 6AM and decided to visit the exciting waterfall. She somehow managed to go 1000ft, where her scent stopped. Now imagine that someone found her, and decided to help her out.

Of course, other scenarios in my head are darker, but she ends up deep in the jungle, far beyond where she could have gone by herself.

Her scent didn't go anywhere near 1000ft. Why are you manipulating important details?

"Let's imagine" Nora did exactly what i think she did, am i correct yet?

 

[Kubirai]

I appreciate your information. The police need to step up and make this I formation,public. That's where the problem is.

Check the Lucas/Chynna thread. Malaysian police have shared a lot more information each day than Canadian police. Check Grace Millane case from Dec 2018 in New Zealand for even less info.

 

[Kubirai]

Her scent didn't go anywhere near 1000ft. Why are you manipulating important details?

"Let's imagine" Nora did exactly what i think she did, am i correct yet?

I read 100m in one article, and 1000ft in another. But the point is that Nora's scent was picked up by the dogs, outside the cabin.

That scenario is for the faint of heart. We really don't know what exactly happened with Nora, between 1AM and 7AM of Aug 4.

 

[Kubirai]

Malaysian search team expert claims it is 'impossible' Nora Quoirin

Near the end of this article he says his boots were shredded, but I posted a photo of 3 young girls with flimsy footwear going to the waterfall. There are several blogs in FB describing such "family" treks from Dusun resort to the waterfall.

More such charlatans will come forward, and we will have a deja vu of August 4 to 6 period.

No matter how she got near the waterfall, all evidence points to her actually being alive in the jungle for a week. She obviously walked to the stream for drinks.

 

[Kubirai]

BBM

We also don’t know that her scent was laid down when she went missing. She and her family could have explored the grounds a little when they arrived.

They didn't report venturing outdoors after arriving around 7PM on Aug 3. The scent was picked up way beyond the pool area.

 

[Tutter]

Think this backs up what quite a few of us have been saying.
Her feet would have been ripped to shreds,her body badly scratched and bruised, and she also would
have been covered in bites,leeches and goodness knows what else.

While we don’t know the full extent of her balance and coordination issues, I just cannot accept that she would not have been seriously injured from wandering around, falling and climbing for 7 + days. Bruises, broken bones lacerations etc. maybe she was and they have just not publicly stated her condition for some reason. Or is it possible she wouldn’t have moved at all (if placed there) until the very end?

I believe the parents when they say it would be impossible for her to go out on her own. She didn’t go out on her own and she wouldn’t go out on her own. I think that that is 100% fact.

So how did she get out there in the jungle?

 

[Kubirai]

I just cannot accept that she would not have been seriously injured from wandering around, falling and climbing for 7 + days. Bruises, broken bones lacerations etc. maybe she was and they have just not publicly stated her condition for some reason. Or is it possible she wouldn’t have moved at all (if placed there) until the very end?

I believe the parents when they say it would be impossible for her to go out on her own. She didn’t go out on her own and she wouldn’t go out on her own. I think that that is 100% fact.

So how did she get out there in the jungle?

Nora died after wandering alone in the jungle for a week. She died of stress and hunger induced ulcer. Her body didn't show any signs of serious injuries or assault, only minor scratches.

Those are only established facts so far, the rest are speculation.

 

[gregjrichards]

Sorry for being behind is another autopsy going to be done in the U.K?

 

[Endurfin]

Nóra Quoirin: The unanswered questions

"Several questions remain about Nóra’s disappearance and death. Why would she have left the resort in the middle of the night? Did she climb out of the downstairs window that was found open when she disappeared and on which police found unidentified fingerprints?

Why was her body found unclothed? If Nóra did walk off into the jungle, why could sniffer dogs pick up her scent only in the immediate vicinity of the guest house? Does this suggest she was abducted?

Nóra’s body was found in an area that had already been covered by search-and-rescue teams, so how is it that they did not see her?

The area where Nóra’s body was found had been covered until day seven of Nóra’s disappearance. Perhaps, Mohamad Mat Yusop said, Nóra was still moving around at that time. After day seven the search-and-rescue teams concentrated on the Gunung Berembun area.

How could she have survived for five days in the jungle without food or water, if you believe the theory that she left the hotel on her own? We remain very dubious
A Daily Mail reporter, Paul Thompson, interviewed Sean Yeap, one of the hikers who discovered Nóra’s body. Yeap told him that the body was not hidden or covered with foliage and said he would have expected search teams that had passed through the area previously to have found it, had it been there at the time.


Although police say the bleeding in Nóra’s intestine was most likely caused by prolonged hunger and stress, stomach ulcers can be caused by Helicobacter pylori bacteria. Nóra might have drunk contaminated water, although this cannot be established."
screamed to be let back in.”

Nóra Quoirin: ‘It is not possible she would have willingly left with a stranger,’ says her French grandfather, Sylvain Quoirin. Photograph: Titouan Rimbault

Takes much longer time for Helicobacter pylori bacteria to cause a damage like this.

 

[Nadal]

Those established facts don't fit into anything you're suggesting. The one thing that makes the most sense is she ended up in the jungle alone and perished because most adults aren't built for surviving in those conditions nevermind a 15 year old with disabilities.

Trying to think of what could've happened to her is really getting to me. Just..RIP.

 

[tree1]

Can anyone answer what might seem a dumb question? Is the jungle there in that region so dense thàt are shaded from the sun? I ask as on photos of Nora she looks to have the sort of skin tone that burns easily. . Just my observation.I wonder if she was seen to be sunburnt at post mortem. Rest in peace Nora

 

[Lilibet]

Sorry for being behind is another autopsy going to be done in the U.K?

I think the last word was that they are considering it, but I don’t have a link.