Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #5

[HongKongPhooey]

You think the issues were cleared up, but obviously there are a lot of people who do not. The LBT guy said the hikers found her after acting on previously unknown information. If their mouthpiece is saying that, it was obviously unknown.

The info about her disability changed significantly from day 2 to day 4/5, and was much much worse. You can disagree with me, but I’m not sure how anyone can disagree with “she looks younger and can’t take care of herself” being way different than “she doesn’t understand concepts, cannot communicate well, and has mobility issues” (obviously paraphrased and not a direct quote - we all have seen the quotes repeatedly). I am basing these statements off the word of the parents and the guy they authorized to speak for them. Maybe it just didn’t seem important at the time, and so it got left out. Idk.

I dont think those two descriptions are mutually exclusive tho.

I'm also probably paraphrasing, but:

Looks younger, cant take care of herself

Doesnt understand concepts, cannot communicate well, has mobility issues

The second doesnt contradict the first does it? For me, it provides additional information.

The big red flag in the first description is "cant take care of herself"

 

[Coach]

I wondered if one or both of the other siblings had gone out of the holiday cabin along with N and whether they had returned without her. I also wondered if the long flight/time difference had put them all out of sorts and the children were possibly unable to sleep or talking/capering/misbehaving in the middle of the night or in the early hours and N had been sent outside the cabin and then wandered off. There are many scenarios as to why she left - I even thought at one point that she may have been sleepwalking. Perhaps it really is as simple as she couldn’t sleep and decided to go out and explore.

 

[Skigh]

I dont think those two descriptions are mutually exclusive tho.

I'm also probably paraphrasing, but:

Looks younger, cant take care of herself

Doesnt understand concepts, cannot communicate well, has mobility issues

The second doesnt contradict the first does it? For me, it provides additional information.

The big red flag in the first description is "cant take care of herself"

Totally agree with this.
Further up dates clarified her disabilities including the name of her specific condition.

 

[Eve71]

I wondered if one or both of the other siblings had gone out of the holiday cabin along with N and whether they had returned without her. I also wondered if the long flight/time difference had put them all out of sorts and the children were possibly unable to sleep or talking/capering/misbehaving in the middle of the night or in the early hours and N had been sent outside the cabin and then wandered off. There are many scenarios as to why she left - I even thought at one point that she may have been sleepwalking. Perhaps it really is as simple as she couldn’t sleep and decided to go out and explore.

I’m sure the siblings would have said. I just can’t see them keeping that from everyone. My theory is Nora woke to maybe use the toilet or see her parents and something caught her eye (animal) and she went out the door to see and followed it into the jungle. Something made her wander, I really don’t think she’d just go and explore on her own. I’ve thought she may have sleepwalked but I’ve not read anything to say she was known to . One thing I’ve wondered is if the door was closed when the parents woke. I presume it was because being open would have confirmed it as the exit route but if closed, I just can’t see Nora shutting the door behind her.

 

[Tutter]

Had they been to the resort before? Did they know the owners or any guests?

 

[MsBetsy]

I was. Someone said she discredited herself by saying things that weren’t accurate. I said if that is the case shouldn’t that work for all players in the case. Someone assumed I meant the media but I didn’t.

I believe a lot of the people who think the same things AB does feel the parents discredited themselves by not being forthcoming with the bit about Nora wanting to see the waterfall or with giving conflicting statements about her disabilities. The sudden new info and then she was found (LBT released a statement about her being found after new info came out) is what led to this. Prior to that I couldn’t find anything about their involvement, anywhere. Right, wrong, or otherwise, it gave people a pause. It doesn’t mean they did anything, but it does make AB and others question them. Again, I’m just trying to explain how or why people believe and are giving credence to what AB suggested. She may be totally wrong and probably a bit too aggressive with stating her opinion, but I’m a firm believer in exploring every angle.

What else besides reports from the media can we base our opinions on? Anything else is considered rumor, as there is no evidence to support it. AB did not in any way say she was stating her opinion, she stated it as fact.

Giving credence to a lawyer who is obviously biased and whose statements are not substantiated by LE and are innaccurate does not help the family.

And using false information as fact should not provide an excuse to accuse the family of being involved in their child's murder.

Can you provide proof or a link that her parents withheld information about her being excited about the waterfall and how that points towards their guilt?

Can you link an article stating they gave innaccurate descriptions of their daughters disabilities?
Can you give an example?

Because it was not clear to you in the beginning does not mean the family did not tell police everything they needed to know.

These are things that are assumed, seemingly to paint this family in a bad light when they have just lost their child.

I also asked for a link for the article that stated LE had the "hypothesis" that someone known to them was involved and I have not seen it yet.
Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

You think the issues were cleared up, but obviously there are a lot of people who do not. The LBT guy said the hikers found her after acting on previously unknown information. If their mouthpiece is saying that, it was obviously unknown.

The info about her disability changed significantly from day 2 to day 4/5, and was much much worse. You can disagree with me, but I’m not sure how anyone can disagree with “she looks younger and can’t take care of herself” being way different than “she doesn’t understand concepts, cannot communicate well, and has mobility issues” (obviously paraphrased and not a direct quote - we all have seen the quotes repeatedly). I am basing these statements off the word of the parents and the guy they authorized to speak for them. Maybe it just didn’t seem important at the time, and so it got left out. Idk.

We don't know that it changed. It was just given in further detail at a later time. This was just what was described in the media, not what was reported by them to LE. We have no idea what information was given to police.

Do you really believe all they told LE in the beginning is that she looks younger and can't take care of herself?

You have written post after post about the different descriptions "changing."
Why is it that is so significant?
Didn't they have 200 searchers at the beginning, as well as multiple agencies investigating? In what way did it change how thorough they were in the investigation ?

That the parents " withheld" information is based on the idea that parents must have known she would be at the waterfall and didn't say anything anyway? Why would they do that?

We still have no idea that the information came from the parents themselves. Someone may have heard Nora talking and reported it to the hikers. Imo

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Had they been to the resort before? Did they know the owners or any guests?

Good question. I dont think that is known tbh

 

[Rosegold68]

any other routes up to the waterfall?

 

[HongKongPhooey]

We don't know that it changed. It was just given in further detail at a later time. This was just what was described in the media, not what was reported by them to LE. We have no idea what information was given to police.

Do you really believe all they told LE in the beginning is that she looks younger and can't take care of herself?

You have written post after post about the different descriptions "changing."
Why is it that is so significant?
Didn't they have 200 searchers at the beginning, as well as multiple agencies investigating? In what way did it change how thorough they were in the investigation ?

That the parents " withheld" information is based on the idea that parents must have known she would be at the waterfall and didn't say anything anyway? Why would they do that?

We still have no idea that the information came from the parents themselves. Someone may have heard Nora talking and reported it to the hikers. Imo

This is an excellent point MsB. What the media report someone says, is very far removed from what they actually said to LE and searchers. Or I should say, may be far removed. The truth is, we don't know.

 

[MsBetsy]

Good question. I dont think that is known tbh

I remember they said they had been to Asia and Europe many times before but they didn't mention that specific resort, I don't think. Imo

 

[Sarahlou]

Good question. I dont think that is known tbh

I wouldn't have thought so as didnt they call this a 'holiday of a lifetime'?

 

[tresir2012]

“(They) somehow convinced the Malaysian authorities to abandon their murder inquiry and release Nora’s body without producing the necessary forensic and toxicology reports that form part of every standard criminal death investigation,” she said.

Calling the entire matter a “cover-up”, Brennan said the Quoirins had given no account of their movements in the hours before they reported their daughter missing.

“All the simple routine things that happen in a missing child case and criminal investigation failed to happen in the case of Nora.”

Brennan also said the police had confirmed there was no evidence of a “third party” entering the family’s villa on the night Nora Anne was reported missing.

“There was no evidence of a struggle. No fingerprints, footprints, or screams. Nobody heard anything.

“Malaysian police said that Nora did not go alone. A third party was involved, and the third party was someone known to Nora.”
Cops looking into lawyer's claim that Nora Anne's family involved in her death

" on the night Nora was reported missing".
I thought Nora was reported missing the morning of the 4th?

 

[tresir2012]

Help me out here.....how can anyone think it is the parents? So some people think they starved their daughter and left her out in the jungle? I don't even understand what the theory would be there. And the other two kids just keep quiet and don't say what went on?

*edit* covermecagney said it better than me.

Is it known what time they all went to sleep the first night they were there? When was Nora and the other children last seen by the parents that night? Most parents look in on their children to see they are asleep and ok before going to bed themselves. So am wondering what time they may have done that.

 

[tresir2012]

It was never stated that the family neglected to tell LE about the waterfall, or even if they told them at all. It was reported that the hikers "heard" she was excited about the waterfall.
It was also never reported that the parents description of her disabilities was not accurate. This was cleared up a long time ago.

It's not a matter of interpreting information as people please, it's a matter of repeating innaccurate information as reported by the media, and basing speculation and theories on those "facts". Imo

Can you explain what is the proper info about the waterfall and provide the link?

 

[tresir2012]

I’m sure the siblings would have said. I just can’t see them keeping that from everyone. My theory is Nora woke to maybe use the toilet or see her parents and something caught her eye (animal) and she went out the door to see and followed it into the jungle. Something made her wander, I really don’t think she’d just go and explore on her own. I’ve thought she may have sleepwalked but I’ve not read anything to say she was known to . One thing I’ve wondered is if the door was closed when the parents woke. I presume it was because being open would have confirmed it as the exit route but if closed, I just can’t see Nora shutting the door behind her.

Were these doors locked? Had they been unlocked from inside/outside? Why did the parent's suspect abduction?

 

[msphilosopher]

Haven't been following this case... do people think she was abducted or wondered off.

Article said she was found without clothes. Sounds like foul play... what was the temp? Is hypothermia a possibility?

 

[Rosegold68]

no clothes because she was only sleeping in underwear

no sign of third party breaking in

 

[Suglo]

I’m sure the siblings would have said. I just can’t see them keeping that from everyone. My theory is Nora woke to maybe use the toilet or see her parents and something caught her eye (animal) and she went out the door to see and followed it into the jungle. Something made her wander, I really don’t think she’d just go and explore on her own. I’ve thought she may have sleepwalked but I’ve not read anything to say she was known to . One thing I’ve wondered is if the door was closed when the parents woke. I presume it was because being open would have confirmed it as the exit route but if closed, I just can’t see Nora shutting the door behind her.

I’ve been thinking something along these lines but what if she saw some sort of creepy crawly inside the house that spooked her but was near the door/stairs so the only way to get away was through the window? I wonder if she was scared of bugs and such.

I really don’t think we will ever know why she went outside. I personally don’t think anyone took her. I think it will always be a mystery and something that people will debate for years to come.

 

[tresir2012]

Nora Quoirin search team expert says it was 'impossible' for her to reach jungle ravine where she was found starved to death as family demands answers

This may have been posted already as it is two days old but it does have a timeline and is quoting an expert stating it would have been impossible for Nora to have got to the ravine by herself.

"You have to cross two reasonably deep streams to reach the area where she was found.

"The terrain by the stream is very slippery. The roots and rocks are wet.

"My boots were destroyed by the end and Nora was barefoot.

"I can’t imagine how she could have walked to the place where she was found."

Nora’s family have consistently said they can't believe she walked out on her own - and this new information has brought more speculation to the theory."