Man Dragged off United Airlines/Flight Overbooked, April 2017

[JerseyGirl]

I will agree with you that the police used excessive force.

Not the police, it was the Chicago Department of Aviation officers. At least that's who placed one officer on leave pending review.

 

[Cryptic]

UA denied anyone the legal limit of 400% up to $1350 to get off the flight when they hit the ceiling of $800 voucher before calling security, did you know of this legal amount? I sure didn't. In my opinion they absolutely are responsible.

Being "guilty" of poor management decisions does not make one responsible for the police using excessive force. Going back to the resraunt analogy:

The fact that I think you should have refunded the customer's price for the meal does not mean you were legally unable to call the police when the man refused to comply with your dress code. Nor does it mean that you cant legally have a dress code. Likewise, you are not responsible for the actions of the police once they got there.

I am pretty sure that their CEO means that the United was "guilty" of poor management decisions only. Not that they were criminally guilty for actions the police took or that they were somehow civilly liable for bumping a passenger.

At the end of the day, the man would not want me on his jury.

 

[LaneGirl]

Being "guilty" of poor management decisions does not make one responsible for the police using excessive force. Going back to the resraunt analogy:

The fact that I think you should have refunded the customer's price for the meal does not mean you were legally unable to call the police when the man refused to comply with your dress code. Nor does it mean that you cant legally have a dress code. Likewise, you are not responsible for the actions of the police once they got there.

I am pretty sure that their CEO means that the United was "guilty" of poor management decisions only. Not that they were criminally guilty for actions the police took or that they were somehow civilly liable for bumping a passenger.

At the end of the day, the man would not want me on his jury.

We will see

 

[Mercedes]

To be fair to United, a media outlet in Louisville, KY had previously done a story on the doctor and decided to publish the information again yesterday. They received a LOT of heat from their readers for dredging the past stories up. MSM picked it up from there.

I see. Then the media outlet was out of line. To bad this shifted the focus from United to the doctor. Unfair!

 

[Rocco]

United never should have started boarding that plane until the seat assignments were confirmed. That's asking for problems like this. I fly Delta all the time and I've never seen them allow people to board until every passenger knows for sure if they're getting on or not. As far as bumping people to get employees to a destination, they have to do that or they would lose a ton of money if they didn't have a crew at the next destination to man a flight. One of the problems I see is airlines have to overbook flights, although that wasn't the problem in this case. Why do they have to overbook? Because people don't show up for flights and they want to make sure every single seat is taken. You can not show up for your flight and re-book for a fee. That fee is much less than what you paid for your seat. So if you paid $500 for your ticket and it costs you $150 to re-book, the airline loses $350 for that seat they could have sold for $500. How many people don't show up for a given flight? It happens on almost every flight. Got delayed in traffic, missed connecting flight, overslept---whatever.

Everyone agrees that security handled this badly. No question about that. However, how about the passenger? Getting bumped happens all the time and we don't see people acting like this all the time, do we. A man flying out of our city was recently bumped from an international flight. The airline mistakenly left his luggage on the aircraft so it left even though he didn't. He was furious. Unfortunately, rather than having a reasonable conversation with airline employees on what the next step would be, he lost his temper and made a comment that he should not have made to the person who told him he was bumped. Security was called, he was arrested, and he can't leave the country now to go home until his court case is settled---and this was a few months ago.

I know a lot of people who fly frequently. I don't of anyone who has never been bumped. I also don't know of anyone who would ever act like this passenger. He knew he was going to have to get off so why not just get off rather than get dragged out of the aircraft.

 

[DaisyChains]

All so United didn't suffer an inconvenience themselves. Clearly the customer doesn't come first with United. I've flown A LOT with work on many airlines - United has always been my least favorite for several reasons . . . the first being the horrible customer service I've always experienced.


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Yup. Let's talk about the time my sister in law showed up to the gate with a newborn and toddler to see my dad before he was going to die of cancer and the flight attendant took one look at her as she ran up, smiled, and closed the gate. HOSPITALITY?! YEAH RIGHT! I HATE UNITED AND HAVE EVEN BEFORE THIS.

DELTA ALL DAY EVERY DANG DAY!

I REFUSE TO FLY UNITED. HAVE EVER SINCE THAT CHRISTMAS.

 

[CARIIS]

He is clearly confused in the video. No evidence of a tantrum.

I am not being nasty! But imo we are off track. We're customers, we made a deal with you . I will give you X amount of money and you will move me from x to z.

That is the understanding. You chose to overbook, in a lot o instances that helps you fine. But there has to be a willingness to eat some money if it backfires on you. Cost of doing business.

IMO they should have upped the money .

Look at what they got now. A mess -or they could have done the 800 cap and offer two flight vouchers or something on a flight that had room.

Costs them nothing - if there is room - throw that person on some flight in the next two years or whatever.

They traumatized every other customer on the aircraft, the equipment ran late for all its other segments that day,, they messed up the gate for who knows how long this took etc etc

I am quite confident this is gonna cost them a heck of a lot more than $800 a some vouchers.

If they got such resistance they should have at least tried another passenger, but when it gets to a bleeding passenger move on imo.

You guys overbooked eat it

Shame on them - and it is not like this is a struggling little carrier

They are coming out of one of their best years ever - give me a break.

Only mo

 

[LaneGirl]

I am not being nasty! But imo we are off track. We're customers, we made a deal with you . I will give you X amount of money and you will move me from x to z.

That is the understanding. You chose to overbook, in a lot o instances that helps you fine. But there has to be a willingness to eat some money if it backfires on you. Cost of doing business.

IMO they should have upped the money .

Look at what they got now. A mess -or they could have done the 800 cap and offer two flight vouchers or something on a flight that had room.

Costs them nothing - if there is room - throw that person on some flight in the next two years or whatever.

They traumatized every other customer on the aircraft, the equipment ran late for all its other segments that day,, they messed up the gate for who knows how long this took etc etc

I am quite confident this is gonna cost them a heck of a lot more than $800 a some vouchers.

If they got such resistance they should have at least tried another passenger, but when it gets to a bleeding passenger move on imo.

You guys overbooked eat it

Shame on them - and it is not like this is a struggling little carrier

They are coming out of one of their best years ever - give me a break.

Only mo

I will not be surprised if others on the flight will sue and win in some sort of way. This was traumatizing as the teacher mentioned, he took his kids off the flight so they didn't have to witness any further abuse.

 

[Cryptic]

That does not constitute an excuse for assault. You can't tell the judge "But, but your honour, it was a very narrow space so it was just easier to subdue him by bashing his head against the arm rest.". You would be laughed out of court.

But you might be able to say: Your honor, it was a narrow, confined place on an airplane. We are trained to end disruptions on airplanes quickly. This made it more likely that he was going get his head bumped.

 

[CARIIS]

I see. Then the media outlet was out of line. To bad this shifted the focus from United to the doctor. Unfair!

This sounds like WASHINGTON dc

 

[keeleydoll]

Airlines can legally ask anyone to deplane, for basically any reason and the passenger/s must do so or LE will be called. LE will ask you to deplane and if you don't, they will remove you. Chicago Aviation Police did use excessive force, but how in the world is United responsible for the actions of another entity?


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[shadowdancer]

But you might be able to say: Your honor, it was a narrow, confined place on an airplane. We are trained to end disruptions on airplanes quickly. This made it more likely that he was going get his head bumped.

Maybe, but in this particular case, the video shows that this was not an accident .

 

[sasaz]

Did you see the video where he says "just kill me" over and over? Come on.....he defo had a brain injury of sorts and lost all reason, hence going back on the plane. He is still in the hospital as of writing and it will be interesting to see what injuries he has sustained. PTSD kicking in as well. How horrific. UA, flew with them once and am thankful that we don;t have that *advertiser censored* airline in my country! And that CEO......his apology only after the shares go down. I hope all those passengers get together and sue frankly especially the children who witnessed"adults" acting this way. Flew UA once and only once. The rudest service, flight attendants, bar none. SO RUDE and this airline should have been out of biz ages ago. SNL will have yet another field day with that the Spicer comment and now this.....

 

[Rocco]

Yup. Let's talk about the time my sister in law showed up to the gate with a newborn and toddler to see my dad before he was going to die of cancer and the flight attendant took one look at her as she ran up, smiled, and closed the gate. HOSPITALITY?! YEAH RIGHT! I HATE UNITED AND HAVE EVEN BEFORE THIS.

DELTA ALL DAY EVERY DANG DAY!

I REFUSE TO FLY UNITED. HAVE EVER SINCE THAT CHRISTMAS.

The flight attendant does not close the gate---the Gate Agent does that. Delta starts boarding 40 minutes prior to take off. About 10 minutes before take off, unfilled seats are given to stand by passengers, and the doors are closed when they have boarded in preparation for take off. Running up to the gate at the last minute means you're probably not going to get on that flight.

 

[Hiandmighty]

Basically it comes down to whether a jury would find the actions reasonable under the circumstances. The other facts are those circumstances (UA's policy, the witness statements, the video). IMO a jury will not find the actions reasonable and UA and/or O'Hare [security] will have to pay damages to Dr. Dao. Depending on IL law they may have to pay punitive damages.

We are actually providing attorneys on both sides a nice free focus group by posting our opinions. I personally believe it will settle out of court, but I feel Dr. Dao's case is stronger given the facts I know. I practice personal injury law myself; it's literally my job to determine if these types of cases have merit to spend our money on since we only get paid if we win...but I am not licensed in IL and this is in no way legal advice, JMO.

I wouldn't settle if I was him. I'd take my chances with a jury.

 

[CARIIS]

It might not have been with the intent of subduing him, I admit that, but his head very clearly gets bashed against the armrest purposely. Anyone with the gift of sight can see that.

Just rewatched he is clearly confused and wildly agitated by situation -- move on and harass a more stable passenger IMO horrible moo

 

[Hiandmighty]

Basically it comes down to whether a jury would find the actions reasonable under the circumstances. The other facts are those circumstances (UA's policy, the witness statements, the video). IMO a jury will not find the actions reasonable and UA and/or O'Hare [security] will have to pay damages to Dr. Dao. Depending on IL law they may have to pay punitive damages.

We are actually providing attorneys on both sides a nice free focus group by posting our opinions. I personally believe it will settle out of court, but I feel Dr. Dao's case is stronger given the facts I know. I practice personal injury law myself; it's literally my job to determine if these types of cases have merit to spend our money on since we only get paid if we win...but I am not licensed in IL and this is in no way legal advice, JMO.

I wouldn't settle if I was him. I'd take my chances with a jury,

 

[CARIIS]

Nope. It says "passengers may be denied boarding..." this tells me that they should have DENIED boarding, not pulled someone off the plane. It was totally irresponsible and as I see it, against their policy, since they allowed him to board.

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Hey people make mistakes - the agent did his/her math wrong- ya don't end up with a bloody customer unless he is making other customers bloody! Goodness! He was sitting in his seat .

 

[LietKynes]

Appreciate everyone's viewpoint.

IMO they should have upped the amount or offered an extended voucher !!
Iirc; someone posted upthread that a person OFFERED to get off for a slightly higher fee --and was subsequently "..laughed at...." . Smdh.

Last year I'd purchased a book on Amazon that was described as "like new".
When it arrived (earlier than expected , as many Amazon sellers are quite prompt) -- it was somewhat scuffed and the back top corner was bent.

But inside the book cover was a crisp 10. bill (cost of the book) and a note ; explaining that when the book was being packaged --the seller realized it was not "like new". Thus, the seller included a refund.
Never had a seller be that courteous before.
Sorry if this post was rambling on. But that was good business ; imo.
I emailed a 'thanks' and gave them a 5 star rating.

If you want to be in business... the last thing you do is to assault and traumatize your paying customers !!

You don't go out to eat and expect a server to come up to you and tell you to leave --since they need the table for some 'staff'. That restaurant would find itself out of business.
:moo:

 

[Rocco]

Airlines can legally ask anyone to deplane, for basically any reason and the passenger/s must do so or LE will be called. LE will ask you to deplane and if you don't, they will remove you. Chicago Aviation Police did use excessive force, but how in the world is United responsible for the actions of another entity?


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I'm sure he was told that if he didn't get off he would be removed forceably. So did he think they were kidding? If I was told to get off, I'd be out of there faster than cats going through an open window in a tuna market.