If this recent body was dumped a week ago and she is a victim of our killer then this proves that the investigators have no idea who he is (because if they did they surely would have arrested him the moment he parked his car and removed the body).
Manorville Bodies: A Second Killer? Latest Remains found 02/17/2012
- Thread starter Seaslug44
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scandi
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I am feeling a spine tingling shudder go down my back thinking you and Sherlock might be right. The S.T.A.L.K. update was written to pi** off the SK IMO and I wonder if they were worried he might kill again. Maybe they think in the big picture it would be better to have one more death and catch the killer. With a fresh body the chances of even ONE clue could lead to capturing him, right?
Your statement from the profiler, I have heard the same thing both from Pat Brown and on the Criminal Minds show.
Tak sa mycker TF as I had not read the S.T.A.L.K. update.
I thought the ABC journo meant there would be an update from SCPD
scandi
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Hi you radio star. ;} lol
I know the members of STALK are ex-LE, but do you think they put their 'LOSER' update out there with LE's grace {or approval} ~ to send a message to the SK or motivate him to react and do something that would help LE solve the case? Just like TheForeigner stated above.
The body was found 3 days after the profile was updated and as of now they are saying the body was there at least a week.
http://www.newsday.com/long-island/suffolk/cops-manorville-bodies-likely-not-tied-to-gilgo-1.3617420
http://www.newsday.com/long-island/suffolk/cops-manorville-bodies-likely-not-tied-to-gilgo-1.3617420
Dwntwnslim
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I hope so.
According to Peter Brendt, the STALK team does have LE connections. Read PB's post at this link for more info:
Post #347
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134837&page=14
wish i could join you truth,being that i live in the middle from these two places!but if you do venture out here come at the crack of dawn when the fog is really thick!
MarshaRice
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Firstly, I have seen in this thread that someone stated a journalist said the latest body found in Manorville (by the jogger on March 21, 2012) was said to have been there a week. I am not sure where this reference is supposed to have originated from but I have seen no such date mentioned and there was not a date of a week given in the video link. The closest thing to a solid date that I have found was that the body had been estimated to have been there months instead of years. When the reporter said the body was not decomposed, he meant not ENTIRELY decomposed as in the case of the skeletal remains found elsewhere. It is impossible to give any sort of a solid date at any rate before a formal study by an ME, and without a skilled professional weigh in even attempts at guessing are shaky.
Secondly, concerning the STALK profile, I really do not agree with the major conclusions of those who have drawn up this profile on several major points.
1. As there has been no evidence of an established connection, I am still not convinced that Shannan Gilbert's death has anything to do with the death of the others.
2. The stress of the profile on the so-called social skills and finesse of the unknown offender(s), I believe to be a misnomer. As in the Pickton case in Canada, I think that this is probably a case of addiction overcoming common sense, not that the offender(s) is so socially skilled and adept. Also, the very seeking out of sex trade workers in itself implies non-social adaptation. He can't have normal relationships, thats why he seeks out sex trade workers. These ARE his relationships.
3. In number 2 above I am referring to the offender(s) who are responsible for the death of the four sex trade workers found on Gilgo Beach. I do not believe that the dismembered bodies and these four bodies are related. I do believe that both sets of bodies were put there by disorganized killers, not organized ones. The killer of the older dismembered victims I believe to be fueled by rage, whereas the killer of the four Gilgo victims I believe to be fueled by a methodical mission. As I believe both to be suffering from sort of psychotic disorder and delusional, I consider them both disorganized. In the off chance that this is one offender, I would suggest that the dismemberment/rage killings were completed while the offender was not medicated and the other killings while he was medicated. Again, however, I seriously doubt this to be true for one glaring reason: The offender(s) who killed the four women found at Gilgo Beach is obviously mission oriented, highly delusional, and a religious or pseudo-religious fanatic with grandiose notions of himself as an pious exterminator of sorts. This type of delusion would not likely remain intact with medication given for a psychotic condition. Without medication, the picquerism and other pathologies present that initiate dismemberment do not just fade away. Hence, at least two offenders.
3. I also think that the age range is wrong and both of the offenders at work here (or one if there is only one) are older, in the 40-60 year range.
4. I think that both these offenders (or again, one if there is only one) are drug users, probably of stimulant drugs, and law enforcement should focus on this aspect. It is my belief that the lure of drugs is how he is getting these women to overcome their own safety alarms and his crimes are probably committed during binges of his own and he probably has a local person that he buys from. I would think that it would be fruitful to attempt to find and question local drug suppliers of stimulant drugs to try to establish regular buyers against the time frames of the disappearances.
5. There are aspects of these killings that lead me to believe that this offender(s) has a full blown psychotic disorder, such as schizophrenia or bipolar disorder, and probably also has a comorbid personality disorder--mainly Antisocial Personality Disorder as well as sadomasochistic tendencies and one or more fetishes. These are not disorders that can be hidden. Somebody knows something. I think that law enforcement needs to stress to the public the characteristics of this offender, just how dangerous he really is to everyone (including those who think they are safe from him), and somehow find the funding to raise the reward amount. I do not think that taunting this offender(s) is going to do anything to help this case. He is way too delusional to be concerned with law enforcement. I believe that the way to solve these crimes is to appeal to the public and those who have information to come forward before it is too late for them too.
6. On the subject of the amount of offenders: This is a difficult estimation. As I mentioned before, there are definite reasons to consider the possibility of two offenders working separately. However, there are also other possibilities. It cannot be ruled out that this is one offender purposefully altering signatures. It cannot be ruled out that there is one offender with either episodes of psychotic cycling or true multiple personality disorder. It cannot be ruled out that there may be two offenders but that these two are working together. There are perhaps things known only to law enforcement that I am not privy to which would weigh the scales decidedly in either direction, but with the information given there is just no way to say decidedly if there is one, two, or even more than two offenders at work here.
What is evident in this case, however, is that he is not going to stop and that the characteristics shown in these crimes reflects the fact that there is so much pathology at work here, so much delusion and narcissism and sadistic tendencies, that no one is safe. And for those who may have information about this case, that includes you. Get some help, tell what you know, before its too late for you too.
Secondly, concerning the STALK profile, I really do not agree with the major conclusions of those who have drawn up this profile on several major points.
1. As there has been no evidence of an established connection, I am still not convinced that Shannan Gilbert's death has anything to do with the death of the others.
2. The stress of the profile on the so-called social skills and finesse of the unknown offender(s), I believe to be a misnomer. As in the Pickton case in Canada, I think that this is probably a case of addiction overcoming common sense, not that the offender(s) is so socially skilled and adept. Also, the very seeking out of sex trade workers in itself implies non-social adaptation. He can't have normal relationships, thats why he seeks out sex trade workers. These ARE his relationships.
3. In number 2 above I am referring to the offender(s) who are responsible for the death of the four sex trade workers found on Gilgo Beach. I do not believe that the dismembered bodies and these four bodies are related. I do believe that both sets of bodies were put there by disorganized killers, not organized ones. The killer of the older dismembered victims I believe to be fueled by rage, whereas the killer of the four Gilgo victims I believe to be fueled by a methodical mission. As I believe both to be suffering from sort of psychotic disorder and delusional, I consider them both disorganized. In the off chance that this is one offender, I would suggest that the dismemberment/rage killings were completed while the offender was not medicated and the other killings while he was medicated. Again, however, I seriously doubt this to be true for one glaring reason: The offender(s) who killed the four women found at Gilgo Beach is obviously mission oriented, highly delusional, and a religious or pseudo-religious fanatic with grandiose notions of himself as an pious exterminator of sorts. This type of delusion would not likely remain intact with medication given for a psychotic condition. Without medication, the picquerism and other pathologies present that initiate dismemberment do not just fade away. Hence, at least two offenders.
3. I also think that the age range is wrong and both of the offenders at work here (or one if there is only one) are older, in the 40-60 year range.
4. I think that both these offenders (or again, one if there is only one) are drug users, probably of stimulant drugs, and law enforcement should focus on this aspect. It is my belief that the lure of drugs is how he is getting these women to overcome their own safety alarms and his crimes are probably committed during binges of his own and he probably has a local person that he buys from. I would think that it would be fruitful to attempt to find and question local drug suppliers of stimulant drugs to try to establish regular buyers against the time frames of the disappearances.
5. There are aspects of these killings that lead me to believe that this offender(s) has a full blown psychotic disorder, such as schizophrenia or bipolar disorder, and probably also has a comorbid personality disorder--mainly Antisocial Personality Disorder as well as sadomasochistic tendencies and one or more fetishes. These are not disorders that can be hidden. Somebody knows something. I think that law enforcement needs to stress to the public the characteristics of this offender, just how dangerous he really is to everyone (including those who think they are safe from him), and somehow find the funding to raise the reward amount. I do not think that taunting this offender(s) is going to do anything to help this case. He is way too delusional to be concerned with law enforcement. I believe that the way to solve these crimes is to appeal to the public and those who have information to come forward before it is too late for them too.
6. On the subject of the amount of offenders: This is a difficult estimation. As I mentioned before, there are definite reasons to consider the possibility of two offenders working separately. However, there are also other possibilities. It cannot be ruled out that this is one offender purposefully altering signatures. It cannot be ruled out that there is one offender with either episodes of psychotic cycling or true multiple personality disorder. It cannot be ruled out that there may be two offenders but that these two are working together. There are perhaps things known only to law enforcement that I am not privy to which would weigh the scales decidedly in either direction, but with the information given there is just no way to say decidedly if there is one, two, or even more than two offenders at work here.
What is evident in this case, however, is that he is not going to stop and that the characteristics shown in these crimes reflects the fact that there is so much pathology at work here, so much delusion and narcissism and sadistic tendencies, that no one is safe. And for those who may have information about this case, that includes you. Get some help, tell what you know, before its too late for you too.
Lt Fitzpatrick said it. I linked and quoted the article in post #615
Hi all. I've been off the case for a while but this new information has sparked my interest. Several sources are reporting that the new remains found were skeletal. So although they could have been dumped recently, who knows how long the killer has been holding them.
The FBI needs to seriously do another aerial sweep of all of LI, because this is just out of control!
The FBI needs to seriously do another aerial sweep of all of LI, because this is just out of control!
And FYI, recently they have made it so that you can not read online Newsday articles unless you have a 7 day subscription. As I only get delivery on Sundays, I lost my access. However, for all of you that have smartphones, there is an App called US News that gives you access to full online Newsday articles as well as articles in many newspapers and periosicals from around the country. Its pretty great.
KPCrimeNY
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Just put together that I work about 5 miles from the sites. Golf over there too. Saturday...hmmmm.......
KPCrimeNY
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Makes me start to think Dormer did really spill the beans and give us alot. Compared to what this guy will be for sure.
KPCrimeNY
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I had a thought I'll throw it out there. I seemed to me real quick this body was ruched and answers are wanted quick. The new team is playing a new ball game. Lots of secrets and maybe even some tales sprinkled in. What if? Big what if? It is Obvious last find in manorville a couple days ago is obviously tied to gilgo. What if SK has used Manorvile site to confuse and piss off LE knowing it's hot and that he is not responsible for other finds over there. IF you knew a body was discovered there a month ago. Why bring one that close if your not some how connected also?
To say, "at least a week" is very odd. When reading the MANY reports of skeletons, remains, and bodies found in the last twenty years, (See The "Updated Merged" thread) LE regularly says, "For 'some' time." that seems to be the initial standard line for both bodies and skeletal remains.
Here, LT Fitzpatrick initially said "for some time" and then said "at least a week." Seems like they may believe this is related to either or both a recent disappearance of the woman or the recent find...like the body in Commack.
Here, LT Fitzpatrick initially said "for some time" and then said "at least a week." Seems like they may believe this is related to either or both a recent disappearance of the woman or the recent find...like the body in Commack.
LINative13
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I would love to go look with you; unfortunatley I am not allowed to carry my
.44 in public parks. Ha. Maybe do an ambush mission? Sit in the woods with the nightvision and wait for the next drop off? I can probably sneak away from work from now till October....LOL.
.44 in public parks. Ha. Maybe do an ambush mission? Sit in the woods with the nightvision and wait for the next drop off? I can probably sneak away from work from now till October....LOL.
Over the past year I have learned to no longer trust journalism. They seem to get stories wrong more than right. The writers are constantly stealing each others stories, not quoting sources/references, and getting names & facts completely wrong.
This one is the icing on the cake;
a Wall street Journal column today reads;
More Remains Found Near Gilgo Beach
Link to WSJ Webpage
Such bogus reporting.
Manorville is nowhere near Gilgo. Shame on them for using the shock factor or for simply not bothering to take the two minutes to do their research!
On another note, one thing I took from that article that sparked my interest was this;
This one is the icing on the cake;
a Wall street Journal column today reads;
More Remains Found Near Gilgo Beach
Link to WSJ Webpage
Such bogus reporting.
Manorville is nowhere near Gilgo. Shame on them for using the shock factor or for simply not bothering to take the two minutes to do their research!
On another note, one thing I took from that article that sparked my interest was this;
minazoe
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as per profiling...I don't believe the killer is a disorganised schizo...I think he hides in plain sight and knows exactly what he is doing. He is bold, arrogant and thinks he is above the fray.
only in this way is he delusional.
only in this way is he delusional.
MrsPC
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When I was mapping the 1st recent set of Manorville (male) remains on North St - about 300 ft east (where North St becomes Mill St) I saw a vehicle parked off the side of the road in Bing Maps.
this location is where the most recent female victim's remains were found if I'm not mistaken
here's a screen capture of the vehicle on Bing
edited to add - Here's Newsdays map of the remains locations
http://www.newsday.com/long-island/suffolk/bodies-found-in-manorville-area-1.3619376
this location is where the most recent female victim's remains were found if I'm not mistaken
here's a screen capture of the vehicle on Bing
edited to add - Here's Newsdays map of the remains locations
http://www.newsday.com/long-island/suffolk/bodies-found-in-manorville-area-1.3619376
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MrsPC
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I previously posted about K9 Search & detection here:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7616200&postcount=81"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Manorville Bodies: A Second Killer? Latest Remains found 02/17/2012[/ame]
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7616200&postcount=81"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Manorville Bodies: A Second Killer? Latest Remains found 02/17/2012[/ame]