Maui Hawaii Wildfires, 97 dead, Aug 2023

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It will take a decade to rebuild Lahaina. Many of the older long time residents may never see that.
Lahaina had such character, can that be restored with new construction? Will they rebuild the Pioneer Inn and Baldwin house and other iconic historical structures as they were? The quirky Front St. shops and restaurants? And all the greenery is gone...no more palm trees and other trees.
It's all so sad.

I think popular demand will bring back a facsimile of the Pioneer Inn and perhaps the Baldwin House.

It is going to be a very delicate and very long series of negotiations to re-build it. Hopefully people with great vision and reverence can be found to guide it. Despite the many small stores, boutiques, restaurants and galleries, I think we are going to find that most all of these are in rented spaces and the real major property owners will be major players in the re-building. They will have a real economic pressure in a quick re-build. I hope that can be done well, but I'm afraid that the building and zoning regulations are going to push towards less "quaint" or historical structures.

It once looked like this:

 

Hawaii has a robust emergency siren warning system. It sat silent during the deadly wildfires

“There wasn’t really an evacuation notice for us,” Millington said. The real warning, he said, came from the “huge plume of black smoke” in the sky over Lahaina.

[...]

The cell phone alert “was useless,” said Millington, who owns a hot sauce company in the historic town. “We have tsunami warnings that I think should have been utilized… So many of us … felt like we had absolutely no warning.”

 

Hawaii has a robust emergency siren warning system. It sat silent during the deadly wildfires

“There wasn’t really an evacuation notice for us,” Millington said. The real warning, he said, came from the “huge plume of black smoke” in the sky over Lahaina.

[...]

The cell phone alert “was useless,” said Millington, who owns a hot sauce company in the historic town. “We have tsunami warnings that I think should have been utilized… So many of us … felt like we had absolutely no warning.”

Very good points, indeed !

The key going forward with emergency alarms would be how to use the Tsunami Alert system and make sure people knew it was for a fire.
 
Very good points, indeed !

The key going forward with emergency alarms would be how to use the Tsunami Alert system and make sure people knew it was for a fire.
I totally agree. Do something like what NZ does. Appears they do exactly what I was thinking would be a good idea to do (before knowing it was possible before Goog'ing for it).

From time to time, visitors staying in coastal communities hear a siren sound (especially during hours of darkness) and become concerned that it’s alerting them to a tsunami warning.

Most commonly, the sound they’ve heard is the siren that summons members of the local volunteer fire brigade. These sirens generally have a rise/fall ‘air raid’ type tone.

More recently, new building alarms required to be installed have a siren tone which is very similar to Northland tsunami sirens and the difference can be difficult to detect. However, after four cycles of the sound, there is a voice message stating that it is a fire alarm.


Mp3 wav examples here: Listen to the tsunami siren sounds - Northland Regional Council
 
My DD lives on the North Shore of Oahu.
She says it is very heavy knowing what has happened to their sister island. Everyone is multitasking to openly embrace & comfort them.My girl says Hawaii is amazing at banding together and caring for each other.Aloha spirit is alive and well ❤️

JMO
 
It will take a decade to rebuild Lahaina. Many of the older long time residents may never see that.
Lahaina had such character, can that be restored with new construction? Will they rebuild the Pioneer Inn and Baldwin house and other iconic historical structures as they were? The quirky Front St. shops and restaurants? And all the greenery is gone...no more palm trees and other trees.
It's all so sad.

TBH, even within my lifetime, Lahaina had been subject to a lot of new construction, outside the small historic district. It was a small town, by any standards, when the Europeans came. In 1850, Europeans came and declared a new land policy (stating that non-Hawaiians could own land). The rest is, well, history. It rapidly became a whaling town, but that was not acceptable to many local Hawaiians. The Kamehameha Dynasty was still technically ruling, but the history of Maui in that period is one of diminishing power and involvement from the Natives. It has been that way ever since.

The quirky little shops on Front Street were in a variety of wooden buildings, some of the larger ones were built in one month during the late 1800's.

Lahaina in 1831. This large structure (later demolished) took just one month to build.

Lahaina in 1854. About 200 people lived there, including a handful of Europeans (missionaries).

The New Lahaina Lighthouse .
Was built in 1905 (didn't take very long to build)

That was the year my great-grandmother and her parents left Maui for the Big Island, feeling encroached upon and wanting a more traditional place to live.

The historic district will certainly be rebuilt according to the standards of historic reconstruction - but the rest of Lahaina will be rebuilt, I believe, by the people who own the land on which things will be built.

The Kings and Queens of Hawai'i urged the building of the fort in order to keep out the whalers (and slavery/slave trade vessels were illegal in Hawai'i from 1852 onward. It would be really cool if they rebuilt the old school (from the 19th century) but the locals (via local government) recently decided to build a really nice, modern elementary school with all the bells and whistles to usher the children of Lahaina into the age of modern education. I would think parents and others would want that rebuilt. Typical school rebuild after a fire is about 2-3 years, but part of that is wrangling with state government, so maybe Hawai'i an make it happen sooner. They built a school near me on what used to be rocky, uneven soil and it took less than a year to complete.

It took about 3 years (from grading to opening) to build the new hospital (starting in 2016).

So...the questions will become, whose Hawai'i will be rebuilt? I have no clue who owns the Front Street buildings where the restaurants were, but I assume that the restaurants were leasing from someone. I don't think it's going to be a decade before Lahaina is liveable, but I do think it'll be hard to get enough workers and materials to get so many things done at once. Near the Thomas Fire burn scar (2017), about half the burned houses are still unbuilt - although most have their foundations and utility hook-ups installed. A few lots are completely empty. Almost 1100 structures were burned and 300 were damaged, approximately - most of them houses, though. I don't think any schools were burned.

So Lahaina's losses are huge. But Hawaiians are industrious and if they can get the wood and the concrete, they will rebuild as soon as someone figures out the next step (somehow getting all that charred rubble put somewhere else - I have no idea what they''ll do with all that).

Right now, it's the fearful thought that the death toll will rise that is the priority. The next couple of weeks are about searching, mourning and grieving.
 
Updates show more than 2,200 structures destroyed or damaged beyond repair.

Thousands are homeless, just like that. Death toll climbs from 87.

Lahaina, a popular tourist destination and economic hub that is home to some 12,000 people.

The winds, which on Tuesday hit 82 mph on the Big Island and 62 mph on Maui, were caused in part by Hurricane Dora passing some 500 miles to the south.


Historical photos of what's left behind
https://www.npr.org/sections/pictur...-gov-whole-town-went-and-dissolved-into-ashes


My head bows for all involved in the devastating Maui Fire of 2023. Like so many, Hawaii holds a special time and place in my life. May the recovery be easier and quicker than expected.
 
TBH, even within my lifetime, Lahaina had been subject to a lot of new construction, outside the small historic district. It was a small town, by any standards, when the Europeans came. In 1850, Europeans came and declared a new land policy (stating that non-Hawaiians could own land). The rest is, well, history. It rapidly became a whaling town, but that was not acceptable to many local Hawaiians. The Kamehameha Dynasty was still technically ruling, but the history of Maui in that period is one of diminishing power and involvement from the Natives. It has been that way ever since.

The quirky little shops on Front Street were in a variety of wooden buildings, some of the larger ones were built in one month during the late 1800's.

Lahaina in 1831. This large structure (later demolished) took just one month to build.

Lahaina in 1854. About 200 people lived there, including a handful of Europeans (missionaries).

The New Lahaina Lighthouse .
Was built in 1905 (didn't take very long to build)

That was the year my great-grandmother and her parents left Maui for the Big Island, feeling encroached upon and wanting a more traditional place to live.

The historic district will certainly be rebuilt according to the standards of historic reconstruction - but the rest of Lahaina will be rebuilt, I believe, by the people who own the land on which things will be built.

The Kings and Queens of Hawai'i urged the building of the fort in order to keep out the whalers (and slavery/slave trade vessels were illegal in Hawai'i from 1852 onward. It would be really cool if they rebuilt the old school (from the 19th century) but the locals (via local government) recently decided to build a really nice, modern elementary school with all the bells and whistles to usher the children of Lahaina into the age of modern education. I would think parents and others would want that rebuilt. Typical school rebuild after a fire is about 2-3 years, but part of that is wrangling with state government, so maybe Hawai'i an make it happen sooner. They built a school near me on what used to be rocky, uneven soil and it took less than a year to complete.

It took about 3 years (from grading to opening) to build the new hospital (starting in 2016).

So...the questions will become, whose Hawai'i will be rebuilt? I have no clue who owns the Front Street buildings where the restaurants were, but I assume that the restaurants were leasing from someone. I don't think it's going to be a decade before Lahaina is liveable, but I do think it'll be hard to get enough workers and materials to get so many things done at once. Near the Thomas Fire burn scar (2017), about half the burned houses are still unbuilt - although most have their foundations and utility hook-ups installed. A few lots are completely empty. Almost 1100 structures were burned and 300 were damaged, approximately - most of them houses, though. I don't think any schools were burned.

So Lahaina's losses are huge. But Hawaiians are industrious and if they can get the wood and the concrete, they will rebuild as soon as someone figures out the next step (somehow getting all that charred rubble put somewhere else - I have no idea what they''ll do with all that).

Right now, it's the fearful thought that the death toll will rise that is the priority. The next couple of weeks are about searching, mourning and grieving.

This is fascinating stuff, 10ofRods

I would believe that 2-4 people or corporations own most of the waterfront and adjacent land. I guess one of the questions will be who has jurisdiction over the design of buildings? There is a historical restoration foundation, but I don't think they would have the governance that the County of Maui owns.
 

Hawaii has a robust emergency siren warning system. It sat silent during the deadly wildfires

“There wasn’t really an evacuation notice for us,” Millington said. The real warning, he said, came from the “huge plume of black smoke” in the sky over Lahaina.

[...]

The cell phone alert “was useless,” said Millington, who owns a hot sauce company in the historic town. “We have tsunami warnings that I think should have been utilized… So many of us … felt like we had absolutely no warning.”

I understand that the warning system was one of the first things destroyed by the fire.

Habitat for Humanity could also use donations at this time.

 
89 confirmed dead

"We're going as fast as we can," Pelletier said, "but just so you know, three percent. That’s what's been searched with the dogs: three percent."
my God
I dread the other 97% to be searched

 
Lahaina was built where it is because it's the best harbor in West Maui. That harbor is the landing spot for most of the supplies (food included) needed in West Maui (and serves areas outside of West Maui in terms of supply chain). THere's no way to just airlift building supplies to some other place in Maui. The harbor will have to be rebuilt in order for any other rebuilding to go on, in my opinion. The barges with building materials are more efficient than trying to bring more Big Trucks to Maui.

There's a reason that Lahaina was the main settlement on Maui, even in prehistory.

There is no source of significant lumber in the Hawaiian islands.


Table 5 in that document shows that wood, carpeting, windows and shingles all come from outside the islands, usually via Oahu then by barge to Lahaina's harbor for those building on the West side. Kahului Harbor will have to absorb the extra shipments as rebuilding starts.

When my mom built her house on Big Island, the lumber came from Washington State and landed in Hilo. She and my brother then transported it via pick-up to her building site. She did this twice. She and my brother built both houses with their own hands. My brother took out a loan to buy a Bobcat for the earthwork part of the build, and is still a contractor on Big Island (and will likely be going to Maui to help out once materials can be provided). My mother was one of the few children to survive the tsunami that hit Hilo and her village, Laupahoepahoe (April 1, 1946).

People still own their own lots, if they owned them before this disaster. They will get some federal assistance, if this fire is handled like the California wildfires. The problem of course will be the exceptionally high cost of transporting building materials to Maui. Any attempt to build high rises in historic Lahaina, capitol of the Hawaiian Kingdom, will be met with outrage and stiff opposition, as it does everywhere in Hawaii right now. Downtown Lahaina/Front Street is a federally protected historic site. Attempts to circumvent that protection will land developers in court for years to come.

If things were fair, there would be a federally organized attempt to bring the lumber to West Maui.

Several things were deleterious, including lack of roads in Maui. When we stayed there, we rented a car for 2 days and drove around, but it is not common pastime. People usually stay in the hotels, so I believe that their road system is enough for daily life. Now, lack of evacuation roads contributed to the disaster.

What bothers me is that before restoring/rebuilding, there will be a period of very hard time. Supplies of water, cotton blankets, clothes, medications. Evacuation of burned people. OMG. And the fire is not totally over.

I was very glad that Bezos donated the money. The good part about Amazon is their delivery logistics. I remember once, during fires in California, there were "wish lists" posted on Amazon where you could buy and add the requested items. Maybe if reputable groups (reputable is the main issue) make such lists, Amazon could deliver better? (They need to change packaging, though, these boxes with plastic in them are meh ((

Maui Costco is open, but the problem is what happens when Costco runs out of goods. Perhaps they could make wish lists on their website, too, where people could buy products to send to Maui?
 
Several things were deleterious, including lack of roads in Maui. When we stayed there, we rented a car for 2 days and drove around, but it is not common pastime. People usually stay in the hotels, so I believe that their road system is enough for daily life. Now, lack of evacuation roads contributed to the disaster.

What bothers me is that before restoring/rebuilding, there will be a period of very hard time. Supplies of water, cotton blankets, clothes, medications. Evacuation of burned people. OMG. And the fire is not totally over.

I was very glad that Bezos donated the money. The good part about Amazon is their delivery logistics. I remember once, during fires in California, there were "wish lists" posted on Amazon where you could buy and add the requested items. Maybe if reputable groups (reputable is the main issue) make such lists, Amazon could deliver better? (They need to change packaging, though, these boxes with plastic in them are meh ((

Maui Costco is open, but the problem is what happens when Costco runs out of goods. Perhaps they could make wish lists on their website, too, where people could buy products to send to Maui?

I'm very happy that Jeff Bezos can make such a huge donation.

Now what about billionaire Larry Ellison who owns the neighboring island of Lanai?

What about Oprah Winfrey, who has certainly bought up a great deal of Maui land. How about showing commitment to the people who really live the land you bought? Bring supplies to Maui, don't buy stuff that is already there.
 
A family of 4 who died in their vehicle fleeing the flames have been the first fatal victims of the fire whose identities have been confirmed. This just brings it home in such a painful way.

My greatest condolences

My stomach is in knots and my heart is breaking tonight. How many more stories like these will we hear in the coming days/weeks? There are still reports of possibly up to 1000 still missing. God bless the people of Hawaii, IMO our most beautiful and friendliest state.
 
I'm very happy that Jeff Bezos can make such a huge donation.

Now what about billionaire Larry Ellison who owns the neighboring island of Lanai?

What about Oprah Winfrey, who has certainly bought up a great deal of Maui land. How about showing commitment to the people who really live the land you bought? Bring supplies to Maui, don't buy stuff that is already there.
Wildfires in Maui continued to burn on Friday, as Hawaii suffered one of the largest natural disasters in its history.
As Maui residents call out for help, some of its richest landowners have pitched in or spoken out about the disaster. Oprah Winfrey, who owns more than 2,000 acres on Maui, has been handing out pillows and other supplies. Lauren Sanchez, Jeff Bezos’ fiancee and vice chair of the Bezos Earth Fund, said in a post on Threads on Thursday that the couple “will be making donations to help.”
Other billionaires who own homes or land on Maui, including Peter Thiel, singer-songwriter Jimmy Buffett, Nvidia CEO Jensen Huang and software tycoon David Duffield, have remained quiet. Spokespeople for Buffett, Thiel and Duffield have not yet replied to a request for comment from Forbes. Real estate billionaire Neil Bluhm, who also owns land on Maui, could not be reached for comment. An Nvidia spokesperson wrote that they won’t “announce plans through Forbes” but did not elaborate on whether that meant that Huang will be making an announcement or donation.
Billionaires have been buying up land and homes in Hawaii for decades, typically as vacation homes. They have often met with criticism from locals for driving up prices and not doing enough to give back to the state or integrate themselves into the community. As of Friday afternoon, more than three days after the fires first started, most of Maui’s billionaire homeowners have not issued public statements or made public donations toward wildfire relief efforts. :mad:
More at link....
 
Wildfires in Maui continued to burn on Friday, as Hawaii suffered one of the largest natural disasters in its history.
As Maui residents call out for help, some of its richest landowners have pitched in or spoken out about the disaster. Oprah Winfrey, who owns more than 2,000 acres on Maui, has been handing out pillows and other supplies. Lauren Sanchez, Jeff Bezos’ fiancee and vice chair of the Bezos Earth Fund, said in a post on Threads on Thursday that the couple “will be making donations to help.”
Other billionaires who own homes or land on Maui, including Peter Thiel, singer-songwriter Jimmy Buffett, Nvidia CEO Jensen Huang and software tycoon David Duffield, have remained quiet. Spokespeople for Buffett, Thiel and Duffield have not yet replied to a request for comment from Forbes. Real estate billionaire Neil Bluhm, who also owns land on Maui, could not be reached for comment. An Nvidia spokesperson wrote that they won’t “announce plans through Forbes” but did not elaborate on whether that meant that Huang will be making an announcement or donation.
Billionaires have been buying up land and homes in Hawaii for decades, typically as vacation homes. They have often met with criticism from locals for driving up prices and not doing enough to give back to the state or integrate themselves into the community. As of Friday afternoon, more than three days after the fires first started, most of Maui’s billionaire homeowners have not issued public statements or made public donations toward wildfire relief efforts. :mad:
More at link....
Rant alert....and not to our beloved poster, but none the less a rant.

I could give a rat's azz that "O" took the opportunity to get photographed handing out cookies to people that just survived a horrific catastrophe. I could care less about what Bezos or other billionaires are doing right now. I'm incredibly grateful that my neighbor (who has a second home in Lahaina) has been found alive, and somehow her home untouched while everything else around her was burnt to the ground.

I am deeply grateful to the anonymous citizen who had the presence of mind to quickly put up a shared spreadsheet (and moderate it), where people could find their loved ones. Not everyone needs to have a photographer documenting and promoting their good deeds.

I care about the families who floated in the ocean for hours desperately clinging to debris and choking on the smokey air. I care about the ones who can't find their children and other family members.

O and billionaires? I could care less. Let's find and account for those still missing. Please pray.
Rant over.

Amateur opinion and speculation
 
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