MD - Freddie Gray dies in police custody #2

[RANCH]

There's quite a few "leaks" and "rumours", and a couple "anonymous" statements from "friends" or relatives of the accused floating about in msm. All of which come from members of the Baltimore PD.

All of which aim to support the accused officers, while casting doubt on witnesses or undermining the case against them in some other way, oddy enough. Despite some of them being very dubious indeed.

I'm not sure what your talking about. Can you give us some details? What are these people saying that is undermining the case against the officers? Were in MSM is this being said? Why is it very dubious?

 

[Ausgirl]

I'm not sure what your talking about. Can you give us some details? What are these people saying that is undermining the case against the officers? Were in MSM is this being said? Why is it very dubious?

Yes, sorry - I will attempt to collate those when I have time (I must dash for a bit right now), though I've mentioned a couple already with links in previous posts, if you're in a hurry to see them.

In the meantime here's what happens to the good cops in Baltimore, who report prisoner abuse. Is it any wonder if even some of the good ones would turn a blind eye?

[video=youtube;2XTNMOztwM0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XTNMOztwM0[/video]

 

[galiuro]

I think the rumors have gone both ways...I haven't seen any hard evidence that Lt Rice had beaten Freddy before only the same kind of innuendo and annonymous stuff that says Freddy had drugs on him. It cuts both ways. And while the SA had every chance to slap the depraved heart on Rice that was not what she picked. So...it all remains to be seen.

 

[CARIIS]

I'm not sure what your talking about. Can you give us some details? What are these people saying that is undermining the case against the officers? Were in MSM is this being said? Why is it very dubious?

Per CNn, apparently the lead investigator for the SA, in like 2009, had quite a scene at his home. The angle they are throwing out is that this guy has a "drudge" againist the department. He had not done some vital paperwork , they demoted him - so that is there angle. drunken incident at his house, SWAT was called, they tased him but did not arrest him . I dont remember his name.


They are also throwing out a bunch of stuff that the knife is illigal - who knows! Noise pollution - stir everything up and get it all confused. There are conflicting laws - Batlimore COde vs Maryland code and the type of knife in one is and in the other that type is illigal.

They are trying to say the police investagion has different conclusions. At the end of the day however, the medical examiner ruled his death as murder so .....


avon

 

[CARIIS]

What's the 'fatal injury to the head' that Mosby is referring to? I've heard severed spinal cord and crush larynx but I haven't heard about a fatal injury to Gray's head.

Yeh that piece was strange - and vanished! There was something about a head injury matched a bolt in the van - but that seems to have gone away???

 

[CARIIS]

Finally had a chance to read. I didn't notice this posted yet, and it supports the rumor that the ME "changed" manner of death to homicide.

this is first I heard the "changed" angle!

 

[Solitaryone]

The ME ruled FG's death a Homicide, but that doesn't necessarily mean murder.

 

[RANCH]

Per CNn, apparently the lead investigator for the SA, in like 2009, had quite a scene at his home. The angle they are throwing out is that this guy has a "drudge" againist the department. He had not done some vital paperwork , they demoted him - so that is there angle. drunken incident at his house, SWAT was called, they tased him but did not arrest him . I dont remember his name.


They are also throwing out a bunch of stuff that the knife is illigal - who knows! Noise pollution - stir everything up and get it all confused. There are conflicting laws - Batlimore COde vs Maryland code and the type of knife in one is and in the other that type is illigal.

They are trying to say the police investagion has different conclusions. At the end of the day however, the medical examiner ruled his death as murder so .....


avon

BBM

Was the Medical Examiner influenced in ruling that this was a "murder"? That's what I would like to know.

 

[K_Z]

Has there been any official, professional, independently trustworthy source (beyond social media and the family), that validates laryngeal damage? Any official, authenticated comments?

Links?

(No snark intended-- I really do want to know, and haven't seen any independent, professional validation that is impartial on this. I am quite interested in laryngeal injuries, or lack there of.)

 

[vanlutz]

What's the 'fatal injury to the head' that Mosby is referring to? I've heard severed spinal cord and crush larynx but I haven't heard about a fatal injury to Gray's head.

It's the injury that snapped his spine, and it matches the bolt in the van.

 

[KEVINinTO]

I notice that my post with a link to the official Baltimore Police YouTube account has been removed for reasons I cannot understand.

Anyway I have this theory (just my opinion) of what might have happened based on this new information (CCTV video show FG entering a building).

We now know that FG entered an apartment building for some unknown reason before doubling back in the direction of the officers.

The man who took the video (an acquaintance of FG) said in an interview that he was in bed when "someone" came into his apartment to tell him that his friend was being tased. Could this "someone" be Freddie? We can see in other CCTV of the arrest this man walking alongside the officers holding up his phone to record the action. This is pure speculation on my part but I wonder if FG enlisted his friend to video record the arrest so that he could use it for a future lawsuit? Was the screaming and the limp legs just theatrics? The first question to be asked is does his friend live in the building that we see FG entering? (he must live very nearby based on his account of events).

 

[vanlutz]

Has there been any official, professional, independently trustworthy source (beyond social media and the family), that validates laryngeal damage? Any official, authenticated comments?

Links?

(No snark intended-- I really do want to know, and haven't seen any independent, professional validation that is impartial on this. I am quite interested in laryngeal injuries, or lack there of.)

No. There's really no facts available yet.

 

[CARIIS]

The corruption in this country starts at the top many times with elected officials who are in government offices whether it is federal, state or local level.

They need to clean all those out before they get to the cops. 99% of the cops here do a great service for their communities. We seem to see more corruption cases by higher officials in government.

Many cases where LE has to shoot a suspect it is ruled justifiable.

Arrest-Related Deaths, 2003-2009 - Statistical Tables

November 17, 2011 NCJ 235385
Provides data on the circumstances of deaths that occur during, or shortly after, state or local law enforcement officers engage in an arrest or restraint process. Data from the Arrest-Related Deaths (ARD) component of the Deaths in Custody Reporting Program (DCRP) represent a national accounting of persons who have died during the process of arrest from 2003 through 2009. The ARD program includes homicides by law enforcement personnel as well as deaths attributed to suicide, intoxication, accidental injury, and natural causes. Data collected include information about the date of death, manner and cause of death, the decedent's demographic characteristics, the decedent's behavior during the events leading up to the death, and the tactics and weapons used by law enforcement personnel.


Highlights:

A total of 4,813 deaths were reported to the Arrest-Related Deaths program from January 2003 through December 2009.
Of reported arrest-related deaths, 61% (2,931) were classified as homicides by law enforcement personnel, 11% (541) were suicides, 11% (525) were due to intoxication, 6% (272) were accidental injuries, and 5% (244) were attributed to natural causes.
State and local law enforcement agencies employing 100 or more full-time sworn personnel accounted for 75% of the 4,813 arrest-related deaths reported during 2003-2009.

Among reported arrest-related deaths, 42% of persons were white, 32% were black, and 20% were Hispanic.

http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=2228

IMO, 61% (2,931) were classified as homicides by law enforcement personnel, is a pretty breathtaking percentage no?

 

[K_Z]

They are trying to say the police investagion has different conclusions. At the end of the day however, the medical examiner ruled his death as murder so .....

BBM, and respectfully snipped. The ME signed off as "homicide", not murder. ME's don't enter a finding of murder-- that is up to the legal process.

Homicide is not "murder". Murder is a legal finding. Homicide is "death at the hands of another." That can be justified homicide, negligence, manslaughter, murder, or some combination of those.

It's not just being picky about words-- it's really a crucial distinction.

 

[RANCH]

The ME ruled FG's death a Homicide, but that doesn't necessarily mean murder.

Your right. Intent isn't decided by the ME.

Homicide

The killing of one human being by another human being.

Although the term homicide is sometimes used synonymously with murder, homicide is broader in scope than murder. Murder is a form of criminal homicide; other forms of homicide might not constitute criminal acts. These homicides are regarded as justified or excusable. For example, individuals may, in a necessary act of Self-Defense, kill a person who threatens them with death or serious injury, or they may be commanded or authorized by law to kill a person who is a member of an enemy force or who has committed a serious crime. Typically, the circumstances surrounding a killing determine whether it is criminal. The intent of the killer usually determines whether a criminal homicide is classified as murder or Manslaughter and at what degree.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/homicide

 

[bettybaby00]

What happened to Mr. Gray happened in the back of the police van, SA even said so. My understanding of the GPS is that it can tell how fast the vehicle was going and if they purposely took a route that was bumpier than other.

The other prisoner, I really don't know what to believe with that one. The story tends to change some depending on the interview. One thing I do know is in that neighborhood, snitchin is a big no-no. There was even a video made about it called Stop Snitchin--very eye-opening on how things go in Baltimore. I do hope that Donta Allen is being kept safe. I really don't know if he would be a credible witness for the state or the defense. I wonder if his original interview with the police was a taped one or just a written one.

BBM

One of the anonymous friends that were interviewed last week on FOX stated that the van did not have GPS, and that the camera had been broken for quite some time. He didn't specify whether or not the van had GPS and it was broken, or if it never had it at all.

No link, so take it for what it's worth. Me, I'm apt to believe it otherwise I think we would have heard about it by now, cause despite SA Mosby's admonition about leaks there have been quite a few. Shocker!

 

[Sillybilly]

Previous warnings have been posted that there is to be no discussion about the riot in this thread. This thread is strictly for discussion about the Freddie Gray case. Once again, posts related to the riot have been removed, and the thread for the Baltimore riot was previously closed.

This is the last warning on this matter.

Thanks !!

 

[bettybaby00]

IMO, 61% (2,931) were classified as homicides by law enforcement personnel, is a pretty breathtaking percentage no?

As KZ posted (as have others) homicide does not mean murder.

It really is a huge distinction, and one that IMO Mosby purposely failed to clarify in her press conference.

 

[K_Z]

What happened to Mr. Gray happened in the back of the police van, SA even said so. My understanding of the GPS is that it can tell how fast the vehicle was going and if they purposely took a route that was bumpier than other.

Respectfully snipped, and BBM.

It is far from settled and proven that what "happened" to FG happened in the back of the police van. That is a THEORY, at this point. Just because the prosecutor "says" that happened, does not mean the prosecutor is correct.

In particular, this prosecutor has a lot of very serious credibility, experience, and professionalism issues, IMO. If she said it was raining, I'd look outside to be sure. (And wonder if her *friends* had engineered a monopoly on selling raincoats and umbrellas.)

 

[K_Z]

It's the injury that snapped his spine, and it matches the bolt in the van.

We have no independent, authentic verification of this. None at all. Just rumor talk and opinion.